This has already occurred with a significant number of people and the reality is that if the referendum was held tomorrow we'd vote to remain.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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This has already occurred with a significant number of people and the reality is that if the referendum was held tomorrow we'd vote to remain.
They won't. This is the fear us non white Brits should live with, when Brexit happens and nothing gets better the Mail will pivot to the enemy within. The mail can't admit it's people like it's owner, and the policies they espouse, that's making the working poor poorer
I mean that's probably the thought process of 80% of remainers prior to the vote. It's not out of some great love for Brussels but that Brexit was never going to solve anything.
When they stop voting tory perhaps
I also didn't want to give the Torries the power to redefine workers rights. The European Court of Human Rights was the best thing that ever happened to workers.
I can see a Trump style rolling back of regulations if there is nobody there to stop them.
In what way were they the best thing to happen? What laws did they make to protect workers rights? What laws, rules and conditions that cant be worked around by sovereign govts?
I dont want a link i want opinion on how they over rule local law.
Those basics de facto beat national law on workers rights. Simple as that. That’s not an opinion. It’s the threshold EU countries have agreed upon. The laws in question are in the link
Maximum weekly hours, guaranteed holidays.
They're already eying up the working hours directive, that'll be one of the first rules thrown on the bonfire.
I could see it happening from the outset.
I thought everyone just signed an opt-out form and ignored it to be honest. Did at my place.
Can any Brits in here explain to me the seeming absence of pro Brexit voices in the Caf, even among UK posters? Is it to do with football (you get to like foreigners and even travel there), or MU or what? Is it the same with other teams? What Club leads the pro Brexit league?
It’s funny, despite a positive vote you rarely see very vocal brexiteers.
People anti brexit are almost always very derisive and arsey toward them and I think there’s a general conception amongst public and media that they were duped and foolish for voting as they did, which is equally naive.
I assume it represses people from being more vocal for fear of a lot of people jumping on them and calling them morons.
Also a large portion of brexit voters were older/certain class groups - Redcafe tends to be very diverse in many ways but it’s safe to say it’s fairly liberal and leftist and it certainly seems that the general political demographic of the site would be opposed to brexit.
Finally, Stoke.
Although teams have links to areas, religions and even certain jobs id say United are too global to really claim any reasoning from that.
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This thread is a classic example unfortunately. And you're right about the demographic here - there's a United forum or two where things are significantly different and far more pro brexit.
Ok, we've now officially passed the irony horizon..
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-cannot-cherrypick-brexit-trade-deal-sectors
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-cannot-cherrypick-brexit-trade-deal-sectors
It's not naive, its actually kind. Assuming someone was tricked is nicer than assuming they just aren't very clever to begin with.
This took me a second (well a minute, actually) but was worth it. Shows the cyclical argument of Brexit. They have red line issues, ok. Each one takes away more of their options.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...or-the-city-says-eu-brexit-negotiator-barnier
As we knew back in July 2016. Maybe the government might actually listen this time.
"The EU cannot cherry pick"- move over Nobel prize winner Dario Fo, David Davis is coming to take your crown.
Actually naivety and assumptions go hand in hand, thank you for instantly proving the point.
Projecting your own opinions onto others and then making judgements about their politics, personalities or intellect is the height of conceit.
To double down on that by playing it off as if you’re doing the poor common morons a favour by allowing them to have been tricked over ignorant, is not kind in any sense of the word, arrogant would be much more appropriate.
But apparently you are free to judge posters as naïve, arrogant and conceited and certain apologists for brexiters are apparently also able to have insight into their personalities.
The referendum has taken place, there will not be another one. The brexiters have placed their future into the hands of the government and have no say how the negotiations will pan out.
All the claims of Brexiters clearly will not happen, it just wasn't possible, as was evident from the beginning.
The current trend is for May to go to meet the EU, say one thing, agree certain points and then come back stand before parliament and the media and utter complete nonsense and deny having agreed anything with the EU.
Why does she do this, because her sole aim is to remain PM and try to get this government through to the next GE intact and she has to keep people in the government on her side. It is now damage limitation.
oh man they're going to be so desperate to give us a good deal
Regional shares of GDP at risk from Brexit Photograph: University of Birmingham
That can't possibly be right, the Prosecco growing regions aren't shaded and as Boris pointed out they will be ruined without our market.
Well Paul, in reference to your first point I do feel somewhat free to make a judgement on an individual poster and the trend I see on the Caf.
I feel well positioned to make the judgement, it’s only my opinion but I’m actually talking to the person and judging his own words, in that sense I think it’s absolutely fair game.
I think projecting judgements and opinion onto almost 17.5 million people is not quite the same though, which is my entire point. The broadbrush and frankly smugly superior tone taken by that poster and other posters is in my opinion distasteful and simplistic to the point of ignorance, which is ironic given the intellectual high ground they believe they occupy.
As for the rest of your post I probably couldn’t agree more, I was vehemently opposed to Brexit as I was to the Scottish referendum. As someone from NI I’m very proud to be linked to the UK and Europe, I considered being European as much a part of my identity as British or Irish, it was bitterly disappointing to see that at odds with 17.5 million people. That’s not even getting started on what I felt was very strong, continual, evidence that we would be financially and institutionally worse off.
I’ll happily lay blame at the Governments feet, the ref was a vanity project of a disasterous PM, left to be managed by possibly an even worse one.
What I have realised is that blaming voters for having a different opinion borne out of a completely different outlook and experience than my own is totally unfair, going farther to patronise and belittle 17.5 million people is something else entirely and hardly helpful in bridging the divide.
I have been called all sorts of names by brexiters and some remainers , the brexiters have mainly disappeared, they were always in a minority on here , if I remember correctly a poll at the time of the referendum around 72% of posters voted remain on here. But I have never blocked or reported anyone on here, although I suspect some posters think I did.
It is an emotional subject and some people see their futures being changed by people who on the whole did not consider what the outcome could be, I doubt if anyone knows everything about the EU but clearly some know a lot more than others.
At this moment the government are spinning a load of blatant lies again, a slightly different set from pre-referendum. There are still many people who believe these because they want to believe them. This is really sad imo. Things that cannot possibly happen is not a matter of opinion and people are frustrated that despite this people still believe that they can be achieved.
Just the border issue in Ireland, for one amongst many, was a major obstacle to Brexit both before the referendum and still is. There are only two solutions and neither is going to suit one side nor the other.
Actually I bothered to ask and read the thoughts of countless numbers of leavers, desperate to hear what this magical outcome they sought that us humble remainders had missed. Surely there must be some intellectual argument based in fact or solid economic theory that led them to risk the future of the country? But no, so far it's been nothing but wishful thinking and idiotic nationalism that completely ignores small factors like the EU countries own interests in negotiations.
So yes, they were either tricked or they're stupid. I can't see another rational answer.
"The EU cannot cherry pick"...what planet is he on?
Empathy not a strong suit for you then. On a scale of 10 to 17.5 million how many would you say canvassed? Were they wall to wall morons or was there the occasional high functioning psychopath? Were they all less educated or earn less than you? Were they all fat and lazy? Tall? Broadly would you say they stand or sit when wiping their bums?
I ask because you seem an authority on why people do, think or feel a certain way, your unequivocal certainty is close to god like.
The unfortunate reality for us all is that there were a great many reasons why people bought into leaving the EU, some certainly Ill conceived or downright fabricated but not all, it’s totally disingenuous to suggest there weren’t valid arguments made, otherwise there wouldn’t have been a debate, dominant national discourse and a rather sizeable thread on Redcafe. Not withstanding the fact that a lot of people just plain didn’t like things about their life in the UK.
I’d love to live in your simple black and white world though, can’t imagine it’s very much fun for anyone who holds opinions that don’t align with yours though (those would be the idiotic, moron, easily tricked, stupid ones)
Carry on saying I told you so and winning Kentonio! You’re killing it bro.
I can't say I've talked to all 17.5 million yet, but the ones I tried to canvas were just shouting that their nurse isn't English enough.
Sure Duafc, I'm just seeing things in a total black and white way, hell I probably didn't even give it any serious thought considering how certain I am. Or perhaps unlike the vast majority of Brexit people I might just be one of the UK citizens who live in the EU yet fall just short of permanent residency, meaning that a no deal Brexit could actually cost me not only my job but my home too. Oh and maybe, just maybe I come from a heavily Leave voting area, had both parents and several siblings vote leave not to mention a huge number of people I grew up around. Perhaps again unlike most people I've been studying this shit pretty much daily since July last year trying to understand, trying to find some get out clause that doesn't mean Britain and by extention the British are actually 100% going to be damaged by this.
So yes, after immersing myself in the fine detail of this fecking nonsense for 17 months now I might feel like I can be fairly certain about what happened. Leave voters fall into multiple categories, there were the bigots and racists, there were the nationalists (not the same group although people often fall into both) and there were the people who felt disassociated from British democracy and believed the bullshit about leaving the EU offering a chance for substantive positive change to their lives. Obviously there will be others, but those 3 camps largely cover most of the reasoning and are quite distinct despite many people belonging in multiple groups. Of those groups, the first are fecking assholes and/or idiots. The second are willing to put their own families economic futures at risk for the sake of an idealistic notion of nationhood and are again out of touch idiots who haven't understood the inevitable implications of globalization, and the third group (the ones who actually deserve the most sympathy) are either idiots for believing the impossible or were tricked into believing the same. There's actually a fourth group which consists of people who stand to profit from economic damage to the UK and near inevitable deregulation, but in terms of numbers (though sadly not influence) they are vanishingly small.
Regardless of which, thanks to their ill advised choices I'm facing potentially not only having my own life royally fecked but also watching all my British friends and family have theirs fecked too in a variety of ways. So if you think I give many fecks about anyone's hurt feelings when I call them idiots, then you'd be very much mistaken.
Late contender for rant of the year right there, well done!
The cabinet has agreed to demand a bespoke deal from the EU in the first meeting it has had devoted to a proper discussion of what Brexit outcome it wants.
There are so many things wrong with this headline but it is an accurate summary of how farcical the whole thing is.
There are so many things wrong with this headline but it is an accurate summary of how farcical the whole thing is.
Democracy/government in a nutshell really.
Surprised they haven't subbed brexit out to G4S
This was actually considered, but the government found someone less competent at the last minute.
Aren’t there any jobs in the UK?
So its fine for me to lose my job and home because I can always get one back in England? Is that what you're saying?