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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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So amuzing to see tories in this thread caring about their countries fate when all they've ever cared about is their own own affairs.

I feel the caring boils to the same thing, if the country fails and the pound drops, it will affect me and my tory mates.
 
Yep, it's definitely the Tories that have led to this Brexit thing being a complete clusterfeck. Yes sir.
 
Gee Male said:
Yep, it's definitely the Tories that have led to this Brexit thing being a complete clusterfeck. Yes sir.
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But thats not the point, where has the 'I'm alright jack' mentality gone that existed under thatch? No one gave a fukk about the country then. No one gave a fukk about hospitals shutting. Now its become an important agenda.
 
Stanley Road said:
But thats not the point, where has the 'I'm alright jack' mentality gone that existed under thatch? No one gave a fukk about the country then. No one gave a fukk about hospitals shutting. Now its become an important agenda.
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I assume that after almost 30 years the UK has changed and british people have a different perspective on things.
 
Stanley Road said:
So amuzing to see tories in this thread caring about their countries fate when all they've ever cared about is their own own affairs.

I feel the caring boils to the same thing, if the country fails and the pound drops, it will affect me and my tory mates.
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The class war never goes away SR just ask Chomsky. The argument rarely gets beyond how its going to hit certain people in their pocket.
 
Stanley Road said:
Never assume anything. Tory voters especially never look beyond 'Me'.
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I see what you mean but wanting good hospitals can be included in the "Me", the same thing applies with less pollution, less/more taxes and so on.
 
JPRouve said:
I see what you mean but wanting good hospitals can be included in the "Me", the same thing applies with less pollution, less/more taxes and so on.
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Saying you care about the country is bullshit tho, why suddenly care about it now? Some will even take great joy if everything tanks. It's been crap for years. Do we care about the state of the economy in Chad? No, course not, it doesn't affect me and my family.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I admit I admire you giving half your salary to homeless people.
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That's not his point. He means that anyone pretending to do something for the country more than himself is lying, I believe that he is right on that particular point. Where I would disagree or at the very least be more nuanced is that being self centered won't have the same meaning today compared to under Thatcher, so something that you might accept then won't necessarily be acceptable today.
 
JPRouve said:
That's not his point. He means that anyone pretending to do something for the country more than himself is lying, I believe that he is right on that particular point. Where I would disagree or at the very least be more nuanced is that being self centered won't have the same meaning today compared to under Thatcher, so something that you might accept then won't necessarily be acceptable today.
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I agree, that's what I mean as well. Doesn't matter if it's Tories, Labour, Liberal or whoever. There are very few people who will put other people's interests before their own.
If people want good health services, welfare, care etc then the money has to come from somewhere. The problem is that people don't want to pay more tax and I've agreed with Stan on this before.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I agree, that's what I mean as well. Doesn't matter if it's Tories, Labour, Liberal or whoever. There are very few people who will put other people's interests before their own.
If people want good health services, welfare, care etc then the money has to come from somewhere. The problem is that people don't want to pay more tax and I've agreed with Stan on this before.
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A fairly substantial Labour base votes against its own interests (if you exclude wanting your own political philosophy being in charge as a selfish act). A minority maybe but not very few.
 
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
 
Smores said:
A fairly substantial Labour base votes against its own interests (if you exclude wanting your own political philosophy being in charge as a selfish act). A minority maybe but not very few.
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In which way do Labour voters vote against their interest?

devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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Because they generally lower taxes.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Because they generally lower taxes.
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They are able to do so because they hit good things such as the NHS whose at the brink of collapse or education. How many people in the UK can afford not using the NHS or to send children to private schools? I am aware that the UK is a rich country but surely those who can afford to live without those things are a tiny minority.
 
devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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The term 'Middle England' has been used to describe who wins most elections. Never really had a description yet expected it was mainly home owners.
I guess they are voting for a stable economy and since the banking crisis suspect the Tories are more likely to do that. I am not saying they are correct yet that is probably how they think.
 
devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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Because the people who run the media in this country want them too. It's the same as America in that regard only it's Newspapers over here compared to news stations in America.
 
The Outsider said:
The term 'Middle England' has been used to describe who wins most elections. Never really had a description yet expected it was mainly home owners.
I guess they are voting for a stable economy and since the banking crisis suspect the Tories are more likely to do that. I am not saying they are correct yet that is probably how they think.
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We have the same in my country. The middle class had kept the Nationalist party (ie our tory party version) in government for nearly 25 years. However the NHS and education were always red lines in Malta. When the socialists tried to mess around those 2, the situation got nasty and they ended up out of government for 25 years (they did governed for 2 years but that government collapsed).

Which makes me wonder why do the UK voters allows this shit to happen? We're speaking of the UK here, one of the most prosperious countries in the world. Surely the government can afford providing decent free education and health care if they want to.
 
Pexbo said:
Because the people who run the media in this country want them too. It's the same as America in that regard only it's Newspapers over here compared to news stations in America.
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the media can carry a party up to a certain level. If people are feeling the pinch or they can afford the basics then surely they should vote with theiir brains rather then what the media is telling them.

In the US things are even more ridiculous then in the UK. How come the richest country in the world cant provide free health care to everybody? Which sane government would prefer spending money in more efficient ways of killing foreign people rather then on saving their own?
 
devilish said:
They are able to do so because they hit good things such as the NHS whose at the brink of collapse or education. How many people in the UK can afford not using the NHS or to send children to private schools? I am aware that the UK is a rich country but surely those who can afford to live without those things are a tiny minority.
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Agree completely, as you say it's not just rich old people that vote Tory. How many rich old people read the Sun, Mail, Express and Star.
I know a lot of people that voted Labour all their lives until 2015 & 2017 and they voted Tory, I wonder why.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Agree completely, as you say it's not just rich old people that vote Tory. How many rich old people read the Sun, Mail, Express and Star.
I know a lot of people that voted Labour all their lives until 2015 & 2017 and they voted Tory, I wonder why.
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Brexit maybe?
 
devilish said:
We have the same in my country. The middle class had kept the Nationalist party (ie our tory party version) in government for nearly 25 years. However the NHS and education were always red lines in Malta. When the socialists tried to mess around those 2, the situation got nasty and they ended up out of government for 25 years (they did governed for 2 years but that government collapsed).

Which makes me wonder why do the UK voters allows this shit to happen? We're speaking of the UK here, one of the most prosperious countries in the world. Surely the government can afford providing decent free education and health care if they want to.
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To put it very bluntly - a lot people in this country still think the reason for the crisis in 2008 was because the government overspent on health care and schools.

Example



Although all this seems from longer historical reasons - nearly 40 odds years of the same political ideology, constant attack on the working classes, break down of collectivism, etc.
 
Silva said:
Idk, enough. That's why the Tories win the countryside and richer London boroughs and Labour win the urban areas.
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Both my missus and I are professionals. We both earn good salaries and we live in a good ‘expensive’ area. However we are still reliant on the NHS and public education (if I ever have kids). If we don’t have that, then for us it’s not worth living in the UK anymore. Everything from rent to transport right to food, electricity, child-care and heating is expensive. We’re talking of the strict necessaries here

I am pretty sure that we make part of the upper middle class and yet, if we ever have kids then our standard of living will nose-dive significantly. Same can be said about most of our friends who most have a good high paying job.

Which makes me wonder, how many people can afford losing the NHS or see public education go tits up? Surely it’s a minority. Also most of these people must have siblings or friends who would struggle if these two sectors are hit. Those who do not, must be educated enough to feel disgusted of how the likes of Gove, Davies and Johnson act and still get away with it. Surely they must understand the enormous damage these officials are doing and would want to punish the party who placed them there in the first place.

I respect your opinion but in my opinion its a matter of chickens voting for Christmas.
 
Sweet Square said:
To put it very bluntly - a lot people in this country still think the reason for the crisis in 2008 was because the government overspent on health care and schools.

Example



Although all this seems from longer historical reasons - nearly 40 odds years of the same political ideology, constant attack on the working classes, break down of collectivism, etc.
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Some of the things the unions here are allowed to do defy logic. For example I never understood how the tube drivers union is able to paralyse an entire city for the most ridiculous of reasons and get away with it. That doesn't make sense to me.

Having said that, that is not enough to justify why people vote Tories. Its like shooting at your feet because of an ingrown toe nail.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
In which way do Labour voters vote against their interest?
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For people like myself id be better off voting Tory. I live down south and earn a decent wage, I've got private healthcare etc.

I mean its not all one way, there are benefits to me voting Labour on other services but the core elements of why people vote Tory (i.e taxes) are still present for some Labour voters.
 
devilish said:
Both my missus and I are professionals. We both earn good salaries and we live in a good ‘expensive’ area. However we are still reliant on the NHS and public education (if I ever have kids). If we don’t have that, then for us it’s not worth living in the UK anymore. Everything from rent to transport right to food, electricity, child-care and heating is expensive. We’re talking of the strict necessaries here

I am pretty sure that we make part of the upper middle class and yet, if we ever have kids then our standard of living will nose-dive significantly. Same can be said about most of our friends who most have a good high paying job.

Which makes me wonder, how many people can afford losing the NHS or see public education go tits up? Surely it’s a minority. Also most of these people must have siblings or friends who would struggle if these two sectors are hit. Those who do not, must be educated enough to feel disgusted of how the likes of Gove, Davies and Johnson act and still get away with it. Surely they must understand the enormous damage these officials are doing and would want to punish the party who placed them there in the first place.
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Unless you have your own accountant and solicitor I doubt you are part of the upper middle class perhaps lower middle class.

Here's my thoughts on voting patterns -

2015 Election we had sizable votes for UKIP and Greens, Tories panicked and promised a referendum since then politics has become polarised although that may have happened anyway as neither Greens or UKIP got any additional seats.

This is how I see the main voting split:


Labour

Workers in state industries and state services mostly vote Labour.

Benefit recipients mostly vote Labour.

Recent immigrants mostly vote Labour.

Socialist ideologues.


Tories

Business interests mostly vote Tory.

Self-employed mostly vote Tory.

Libertarian idealogues.


Groups that switch depending on policy and whether that policy is trusted.

Pensioners

Working classes in private industries and services.
 
Smores said:
For people like myself id be better off voting Tory. I live down south and earn a decent wage, I've got private healthcare etc.

I mean its not all one way, there are benefits to me voting Labour on other services but the core elements of why people vote Tory (i.e taxes) are still present for some Labour voters.
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I’m similar, though living up North. I have private healthcare and am most likely Brexit proof. My economic interests would be 100% better protected with a Tory vote. I have only ever voted Labour though. Perhaps it is coming from the Manchester area, although my family are more inclined to the right politically.
 
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