Looks like youre right. The Canada reference looks like it is about not being part of the CU or SM or ECJ jurisdiction, rather than free movement.
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I'd say that would depend on your position surely?
I, for example, am stunned that an agreement, of sorts , was reached as I was certain talks would collapse and stunned just how far back the UK have had to row from their initial position.
To make it clear CETA creates a custom union between the EU and Canada. It's just that technically Canada doesn't join the EUCU.
You can get these replacement covers for a fiver on amazon....maybe this would have been a cheaper option than the Brexit escapade?
Talks were never going to collapse. No politician would have the bottle for a hard Brexit.
Points 49 and 50 seem to imply we're not leaving the EU
This is like the end of a UFC fight where one guy gets his ass kicked for 3 rounds but still holds his hands up in triumph at the final bell.
But Canada is free to make free trade deals with other countries? That's what this is all about from the British perspective, no? So despite the concessions we made today, is an outcome where the UK gets to arrange awesome new free trade deals with the US, China and India still on the table? Hypothetically of course.
We are making a big deal out of our insistence on leaving the customs union. But we are accepting regulatory alignment and - by the looks of it - free movement as well. Freeing ourselves from those things were two of the main reasons we gave for wanting out of the customs union in the first place. The only other significant reason to leave it, as far as I can see, would be for new trade deals.
So I guess if things develop as currently expected we would be free to pursue trade deals with other countries as long as in doing so we didnt diverge from EU rules? So does that mean, for example, that if we did a deal with the US we would not be able to agree to US food standards in the UK, as that would violate the terms of our deal with the EU?
With hindsight yep perhaps but gladly they haven't. The Brexit zealots haven't gone away though - I suspect their brains are hurting and they'll be back once they work out they're being shafted.
@C3Pique
Its Overeem telling us that Stipe phantom tapped after getting knocked the feck out himself
Its Overeem telling us that Stipe phantom tapped after getting knocked the feck out himself
No border between Ireland and NI and no border between NI and the UK.Points 49 and 50 seem to imply we're not leaving the EU
So yeah, Norway then.
Without freedom of movement, wouldn’t we be back to square one on the problem of the Irish border?
Again - hard Brexiters can moan all they like but if they have no Irish border solution then they don't really have a leg to stand on.
The lack of borders and border controls make that almost impossible because the EU do not want US agricultural products. That's the entire problem here, if the UK were willing to actually implement borders than your assumption would be correct.
It seems that the EU27 will allow the UK to retain the four freedoms with absolutely no say in any new regulations whatsoever, no veto, no vote, no controls which I hope the Brexiters are thoroughly happy with as No More Control was exactly what they wanted.
In other words, the same trade deals we could have had already without leaving.
I dont think so, i think the FOM bit is to be negotiated in Phase 2. To be clear - i am not an expert!
Its almost as though this whole thing has been a complete waste of time.
But you can't have no freedom of movement and then quite literally have freedom of movement with an EU country.
Brexiters will claim that May threw the match of course.
Your response confuses me a bit. We have border controls with the US, agreeing a free trade deal with the US wouldnt change that as the scope of the agreement would be limited. So we could in theory have open borders with the EU AND a trade deal with the US, as long as we didnt allow anything into the UK from the US that violated EU rules. Which is what I said.
Whether this is a prize worth having is another matter entirely, as is the question of whether we will even be allowed this limited freedom. But it is at least theoretically possible, I think.
Right, but in that case the deals won't be awesome and it would be very stupid to negotiate deals that basically comply with CETA without going to the negotiation table with all the CETA members. But you are right you could negotiate with everyone.
I see, your objection was with my use of the word "awesome".
That was indeed a legitimate objection. There were never going to be any awesome free trade deals. But there might have been ones that significantly eroded regulatory standards. If today's development makes that a bit less likely then its another reason to be happy today.
Mmm, I wonder what that will entail.
Yeah, equated awesome with outside of EUCU framework which is only possible if you accept borders. The borders are the real key here, even more than the financial passports that were hogging front pages.
They have been at just about every step, especially on the Northern Ireland issue.
I feel a bit inadequate this morning. Everyone seems to know what's been agreed and how long for, but I can't really find it myself. At least they're unanimous that the Remainers have won and Brexit is over, so peace and goodwill should return to the Caf pretty sharpish, hopefully.
What I saw is that the UK will honor the engagements that they made regarding the 2016-2020 EU budget(And programs that go beyond it), they don't want borders with the EU and current UK-EU nationals will keep their rights.
Don't worry, neither do the government
The significant thing this morning is the concession that there will be no hard border between the north and south in Ireland, and no border of any kind between NI and the rest of the UK. We also agreed the exit bill and the rights of EU citizens living in the UK - and visa versa.
The rest of it is extrapolation.
The UK maintains it is still definitely leaving the customs union. But if there are no borders between the UK, Northern Ireland and Ireland, there is no border between the UK and EU, meaning there has to be a very high degree of regulatory equivalence. That means, I think, that if the EU decided to create a new rule outlawing blood oranges, the UK would have to make them illegal too, or else they might flow seemlessly across the invisible border in Ireland and into the EU. So much for taking back control, in the past we could have helped block the rules making blood oranges illegal in the first place.
But that is the only obvious leap to make at this point. It is still very unclear what the position on freedom of movement is - that will be wrapped up in the trade talks.
Even what has been agreed today could presumably fall through if the EU dont offer the UK a favourable trade deal, despite what the text says.
Not sure tbh, i think i saw somewhere that NI citizens will remain EU citizens but cant find it now.
I saw that as well.
That was going to happen but I'm pretty sure that's what the DUP were unhappy about; giving them special status would've moved them too close to Ireland for their liking. And doing that opens up a whole can of worms because then Scotland will (rightfully) demand the same thing.
Surely this will have to be a residency criteria? If so, brb, moving to NI for a few months.
Yes, thank you. Extrapolation indeed, or even assumptions, one might say. I'm not sure which freedom of movement you are unclear about so far, goods or people. I'm certainly unclear about goods, despite the borders statement, I'm still fairly sure there'll be no freedom of movement of people, however much extrapolating there is.
People are quoting a figure of 35-40 billion but no figure is mentioned in the agreement from what I can see, although there's agreement on how it will be calculated.
Hmmmmm
Freedom of movement and freedom of goods come together. You don't get one without the other in the EU.
You want freedom of goods you get freedom of movement. You don't want freedom of movement you don't get freedom of goods.
At least Farage gets it, it's been fun to see him look a bit more sour and a bit less smug today.
You had to have been born there i think