For the already rich top end of town. The greatest con job of all time is getting the working poor to vote Tory. If you are getting fisted up to the the shoulder joint you should at least know it.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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For the already rich top end of town. The greatest con job of all time is getting the working poor to vote Tory. If you are getting fisted up to the the shoulder joint you should at least know it.
Yet leaving will be disproportionately worse for the poor, working or otherwise. How could it not? Even just looking at the shower of shit we call MPs should be argument enough that we are better off in Europe.
Yes it is
There are two different things here - there is some animosity against foreigners in France for sure but it's generally not against European immigrants. The Brexit vote is about immigrants from the EU although it is clear that Brexiters are confused and think it also affects the immigration of non-EU people. Secondly the Uk didn't sign up to bring in large quantities of refugees so there are no large hordes of refugees that are going to invade the country , yet another lie circulated by the brownshirts.
I dont think this distinction means much, in practice. You have Italy and Greece dealing with huge numbers of arrivals from outside the EU, if the rest of the EU doesnt agree to share the burden the whole case for free movement of people starts to break down, regardless of whether the migrants in question were born inside the EU or not.
I had a lot more sympathy for certain parts of the country before they voted to self destruct not only mine, but their own lives in a variety of colourful ways. Because despite having sympathy for people who are economically struggling, I also give them the respect of assuming they are just as capable of addressing facts and news as I am. If they did and still voted Brexit then they're idiots, and if they didn't research and still voted Leave then they're irresponsible idiots.
Frankly I'm getting a bit sick of this patronizing idea that people from poor working class areas should be treated like children. I'm from an ex-mining village and grew up around many of the people who voted Leave. They don't need people saying 'oh my gosh, we totally didn't understand how bad you poor folks had it!' they need a kick up the backside and a reminder that if they don't look after their own economic best interests then a bunch of public school boys in Westminster sure as feck aren't going to.
The distinction means a lot since FN voters rejected them when they started to use anti EU discourse, it's also the main reason behind the recent implosion of the party.
Fair enough. We'll see how it plays out.
Stupid question, but if Italy and Greece grant it's 'arrivals' citizenship would they not then be entitled to move anywhere in the EU? I know there's a thing about having to support themselves but most have come to work of course.
Theresa May's "negotiating" reminds me of mother Fecker Jones.
Hopefully someone who knows more about this can answer your question a bit more authoritatively than I can. But my understanding is no, if they are granted asylum that does not give them the right to full free movement. They are not actually being granted citizenship in that sense. Though obviously they will still move around within the EU even if they are not supposed to.
Wow, not even sure where to start with that totally biased one-sided, frankly rude response!
Anyways here’s an example:
Britain could slash environmental and safety standards 'a very long way' after Brexit, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg says
The MP said standards that were 'good enough for India' could be good enough for the UK
Brexit: the ultimate revenge for colonialism
Someone needs to remind this asshat that we're in 2017 and not 1917. Ridiculous twat.
It's not what you think, he is talking about PESCO. Also quite ironically, the UK alongside Germany, Italy and Spain are one of the main example behind this idea, you are partners in Eurofighters and mutualised your resources and knowledge in order to minimize cost and be more effective. France was initially in it but left very early because of disagreements.
Don't know the complete answer to this but:
Did the refugees in Calais break through into Dover : No
Does the UK have open borders before Brexit: No (apart from the Irish one nobody wants to shut)
Can the UK refuse entry to their country: Yes, people entering have to meet criteria
Has the UK accepted to take in large numbers of refugees: No
Perhaps add to the equation:
Does the UK sell arms to countries that have caused the fleeing of said refugees: Yes
Will the Uk stop selling these arms: No
Just for transparencies sake, I voted Tory at last election however:
2010 - Lib Dem: believed country needed austerity but was worried Tories would come down too hard, so wanted Lib Dem to help regulate via coalition, which happened.
2015 - UKIP: was already anti-EU and wanted my voice (vote) added to the many millions that wanted it to be a real issue (and hopefully a referendum one day!)
2017 - Tory: Thought that Tories would be the best for us re negotiating tough with EU (disappointing thus far).
But I also get why people vote other ways, in fact I encouraged my cousin, Junior Doctor who wanted to vote Labour at last election.
My lefty friends/family think I’m a Tory posh boy, and my Tory friends/family think I’m a champagne socialist!
I have tough skin
It's ok, it's just yet more evidence that most Tories wouldn't know a socialist if it jumped up and bit them.
Ive always heard about these people who voted Lib Dem in 2010 and then UKIP in 2015 but I always assumed they were a myth.
Thanks, but what I meant was if Greece did grant them citizenship as opposed to mere asylum. Since I asked I've thought maybe the EU allows free movement only to people who have been citizens of a member for a qualifying period or something, otherwise granting everyone citizenship seems a too obvious solution for Greece.
I never mentioned the UK, Brexit, or selling arms you knee-jerking loon, I was questioning what action Greece and Italy might be able to take from their point of view, namely to make their asylum seekers citizens and watch them move on. I've no doubt it wouldn't work, hence why I called it a stupid question, I was just wondering if anyone could tell me why.
Oh right. Well yes, absolutely, if Italy and/or Greece started awarding citizenship to people then yes they would then become Italians / Greeks and as such have the same rights as any other EU citizen. I dont know how likely that would be to happen to be honest but if there is no deal to relieve the pressure in Italy and Greece they might start to talk about something like this.
I assume that you mean residents and not citizens, in that case only long term residents have the same right than EU nationals and even then they need to be registered and granted a leave to remain.
To become citizens or residents they would have to fulful the criteria of those countries. Since we're in the UK Brexit thread don't see what's knee-jerking about it when you then infer that they could move anywhere in the EU
Right, you might be highlighting my lack of knowledge. I didn't say resident status, I meant full Greek citizenship, would that not automatically make them EU nationals with the same rights as any other EU national?
Yes, I'm wondering if Greece might consider changing their criteria for citizenship. Arms sales my arse, thread title or no thread title.
It would but that's not a good thing for Greece and Italy, they would be totally responsible for these people and they would have to pray for them to find a job in other EU countries, it's also a huge incentive to migrants to come to Greece and Italy.
I don't know how difficult it is to meet the Greek criteria but if they were to consider changing it, surely it would require massive resources to put it into practice.
Apologies for the arms bit, not my usual type of arguments, had an overwhelming urge to include a cause/effect statement
Understood, I do far worse. I shouldn't say this because it's a bit like shaking a wasp's nest, but I wasn't really thinking about the UK because I'm assuming we'll have left anyway.
Whoops, well, that's a bit Brexit-thready anyway.
Redwoods recent behaviour should make everyone, whether you want brexit or not, worried.
In his role as an MP, whatever he says there are no consequences, he is in a safe seat, his lies will never be called out in the media, he can say what he wants.
As an MP, he is forever on the Tv telling us brexit is marvelous, and a no deal brexit is the key to our future.
He has another job though, as a senior global strategist for Charles Stanley. Now, in THAT position, what he says matters. Giving bad investment advice could see him being sued, personally, or even a prison stretch if it was proved he deliberately lied.
In THAT job, he has told investors to get their money out of the UK.
That should tell you everything. And the fact he was on the BBC today, talking about brexit, and was not asked once about this should tell you about their neutrality as well.
In his role as an MP, whatever he says there are no consequences, he is in a safe seat, his lies will never be called out in the media, he can say what he wants.
As an MP, he is forever on the Tv telling us brexit is marvelous, and a no deal brexit is the key to our future.
He has another job though, as a senior global strategist for Charles Stanley. Now, in THAT position, what he says matters. Giving bad investment advice could see him being sued, personally, or even a prison stretch if it was proved he deliberately lied.
In THAT job, he has told investors to get their money out of the UK.
That should tell you everything. And the fact he was on the BBC today, talking about brexit, and was not asked once about this should tell you about their neutrality as well.
I wonder if this comes as news to Brexiters. What exactly has anyone discovered since the referendum that wasn't expected, predicted or known before it ?
Wow, I didn't realise he was still an MP, the Thatcherite twat.
edit: Redwood, that is.
edit: Redwood, that is.
But its' ok @I Believe, Merkel is still going to save the negotiations for us right?
By the sounds of it she will have to save herself first!
Perhaps young Macron will step up to the plate and make a bid for becoming the new EU supremo if Angela's star is fading and he can catch the Germans in between governments/napping, maybe?
Or maybe Theresa and Angela will swap leadership 'hard luck' stories over a glass of wine and find a way forward, that makes them both look good?
Still think money will settle it, just a question of how much and who will blink first!
Theresa's long term prospects are 'toast' anyway, the Tory Party may forgive, but it never forgets... so she has most wiggle room and as long as she delivers our departure from the EU, her legacy will be assured, whatever the cost!
How hard will it be for Leave voters to realise they've been had?
well Im firmly on the remain side - but this simply isnt news
It was always know passporting depended on being in the EU/ Single market and was always going to disappear.
Im sure the pro brexit lobby will simply say - well it wont be "passporting" as you have to be in the single market but it will be a bespoke deal that replicates that.
Im doubtful myself that something will be agreed but I will also say this it wont be a total wipeout of the london bankiong sector ... so one side will spin it as a disaster and another will spin it as not significant which most people simply focusing on their own echo chamber
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-17-4765_en.htm
For those still thinking that the UK can cherry-pick, have their cake and eat it or to carry on trading as they are without adopting the 4 freedoms
For those still thinking that the UK can cherry-pick, have their cake and eat it or to carry on trading as they are without adopting the 4 freedoms
He would say Brexit = short term pain for long term gain, and therefore he is advising his investors to get money out to avoid that short term pain. But yeah I agree, its duplicitous and does not reflect well on him at all.
We didn't even vote on Single Market membership. It's all absolutely fecking bonkers.
Daniel Hannan: "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market."
Boris Johnson: "There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market"
Owen Patterson: "Only a madman would actually leave the Market"
Arron Banks: "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK"
Nigel Farage: "Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing"
As has often been pointed out, if Remain had won and Cameron had taken that as a mandate to join the Euro and advocate a full-on federalist European state because a slim majority supported continuing our membership of the EU then there'd have been an uproar from those who wanted out.
So I'm not particularly sure as to why a slim majority in the favour of exiting now warrants the most extreme iteration of that outcome. Other than politicians trying to save their own skin.