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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Since Spain is so useless nowadays, it's even better and more appropriate that we're going to strike loads of amazing trade deals with non-EU countries. God save the greens.
 
Walrus said:
BBC Article drilling into some more of the demographics for voting etc; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Basically confirms what we all knew/thought - that those of better education were much more likely to vote Remain, and the young were much more likely to vote Remain.
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To some extent the educational differences are a reflection of the age difference. In the 1950s roughly only 5% of teenagers went to university, 10% achieved the equivalent of 5 good GCSEs. One would expect a correlation between age and education.
 
712 said:
To some extent the educational differences are a reflection of the age difference. In the 1950s roughly only 5% of teenagers went to university, 10% achieved the equivalent of 5 good GCSEs. One would expect a correlation between age and education.
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Whats more interesting is how many people these days go to Uni for a laarff and how many gained a degree that they actually put to use
 
Stanley Road said:
No i live in the eu

I also noticed in Oz loads of the veg is imported, stuff that grows right there
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How is Oz fairing since they lost the wicked witch and her three flying monkeys to Westminster?
 
Walrus said:
BBC Article drilling into some more of the demographics for voting etc; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Basically confirms what we all knew/thought - that those of better education were much more likely to vote Remain, and the young were much more likely to vote Remain.
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And here was me thinking there were far too many unis in Britain. Obviously need to keep building and creating more useless degrees.
 
@Stanley Road @Fener1907

I can only speak for myself personally, but I went to Uni and got my bachelor's in Accounting. Wound up working in a phone shop for 5 years from that. Couple of years ago I saved up to go back and do a Master's with the hope of it landing me a job in the field of study - it worked.

I think the issue of degree's being undervalued is more to do with employers than the degrees themselves being useless (although in some cases they definitely are). I went to a meeting of small business owners with my dad one time, and they pretty much unanimously said that they would prefer to hire people fresh out of school than graduates.

There used to be a perception that getting a degree automatically landed you a good job, which was clearly a bad system, but I would say that it has come too far in the other direction now where degrees are simply not valued. In my case, my accountancy BSc was barely worth the paper it was written on, so far as getting a decent job went.
 
712 said:
Degree or 'degree'? Sshhh, snowflake generation and all that. They hate my age-group enough as it is.
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Stanley Road said:
While I hate words invented on the internet, I am quite impressed how snowflake seems to describe its intended group very well.
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Yet you two and your co-geniuses seem to run and cry every time you are put in your place. Hypocrisy at its upmost.
 
Walrus said:
I think the issue of degree's being undervalued is more to do with employers than the degrees themselves being useless.
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Since the degree is for getting a job and building a career, it essentially is useless if the employer doesn't value it, regardless of what other criteria you want to use in assessing its worth.

Paul the Wolf said:
You don't have to have a degree to have some common sense
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It's still good in terms of the potential for people to literally remove themselves from an insular culture they may be living in.
 
712 said:
To some extent the educational differences are a reflection of the age difference. In the 1950s roughly only 5% of teenagers went to university, 10% achieved the equivalent of 5 good GCSEs. One would expect a correlation between age and education.
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The education/remain vote correlation holds up for every age group. It doesn't really matter if you look at 30 year olds with a college degree or 60 year olds with one.
 
fcbforever said:
The education/remain vote correlation holds up for every age group. It doesn't really matter if you look at 30 year olds with a college degree or 60 year olds with one.
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Do you mean within each age category as opposed to comparing one with another? If so fair enough, I didn't have the attention span to look that far! Well done.
 
712 said:
Do you mean within each age category as opposed to comparing one with another? If so fair enough, I didn't have the attention span to look that far! Well done.
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Yes, college degree 60-70 year olds are also much more likely to have voted remain than the same age bracket without a degree. For example, the AB social group in the UK, e.g. the higher managerial positions and high income groups voted between 62-38/57-43 remain (depending on the pollster).
 
fcbforever said:
Yes, college degree 60-70 year olds are also much more likely to have voted remain than the same age bracket without a degree. For example, the AB social group in the UK, e.g. the higher managerial positions and high income groups voted between 62-38/57-43 remain (depending on the pollster).
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Understood, thanks. I voted remain, must be my education over-ruling my advanced age.
 
On the degree point, you don't need it to have common sense but what it does help is to broaden your horizon and introduce some critical thinking and perspective.

I would not be half the person I am today if I didn't have those interactions at university and the hardships as well.

People tend to underestimate the benefit of meeting people from different walks of life which is what invariably happens when you go to uni. At the same time, I agree there's probably too many people going to uni.

I was (an unwilling) witness to a conversation on the train today. Some guy, apparently working in finance in London, was complaining to his mate how the fact he didn't go to uni disadvantaged him because he just wasn't aware what his peers were talking about and felt excluded. Again, not necessarily related to skills but it's a bit like school. It helps to have common ground.

712 said:
he he, got one!
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I think we know who the child is in this conversation. Pathetic attitude like this is what causes friction between generations. I will not sit and let you people act like high and mighty adults when you're just a bunch of hypocrites.
 
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Stanley Road said:
While I hate words invented on the internet, I am quite impressed how snowflake seems to describe its intended group very well.
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Amazingly the word "snowflake" actually existed before the internet. The things you learn in college......
 
Posters arguing that education itself is a significant causal agent in support for the EU shouldn't forget: "correlation does not imply causation". In this case, I think education and EU support are both effects of the primary cause - social class.

People from the higher social classes are better educated, have different jobs, live in different areas, are unlikely to be on housing lists, etc. In particular, they're far less likely to be exposed to the adverse consequences of immigration. And their lives and careers are much more likely to benefit from the opportunities of EU membership.

A guy who lives on a working class housing estate riven with racial tension and competing with immigrants for poorly paid, unskilled jobs may see the EU very differently to his more fortunate fellow countryman, who's just spent two years in a Frankfurt finance company, and is now returning to take up a lucrative job in the City.
 
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Will Absolute said:
Posters arguing that education itself is a significant causal agent in support for the EU shouldn't forget: "correlation does not imply causation". In this case, I think education and EU support are both effects of the primary cause - social class.

People from the higher social classes are better educated, have different jobs, live in different areas, are unlikely to be on housing lists, etc. In particular, they're far less likely to be exposed to the adverse consequences of immigration. And their lives and careers are much more likely to benefit from the opportunities of EU membership.

A guy who lives on a working class housing estate riven with racial tension and competing with immigrants for poorly paid, unskilled jobs may see the EU very differently to his more fortunate fellow countryman, who's just spent two years in a Frankfurt finance company, and is now returning to take up a lucrative job in the City.
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The working classes, or the equivalent thereof, are most prevalent in urban areas. Which, in the vast majority of cases, voted remain. Glasgow. Manchester. Bristol. Liverpool. What percentage of those populations do you think are represented by your city trader example?
 
Will Absolute said:
Posters arguing that education itself is a significant causal agent in support for the EU shouldn't forget: "correlation does not imply causation". In this case, I think education and EU support are both effects of the primary cause - social class.

People from the higher social classes are better educated, have different jobs, live in different areas, are unlikely to be on housing lists, etc. In particular, they're far less likely to be exposed to the adverse consequences of immigration. And their lives and careers are much more likely to benefit from the opportunities of EU membership.

A guy who lives on a working class housing estate riven with racial tension and competing with immigrants for poorly paid, unskilled jobs may see the EU very differently to his more fortunate fellow countryman, who's just spent two years in a Frankfurt finance company, and is now returning to take up a lucrative job in the City.
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Except that, in the US at least, within each class, better education corresponded to higher Democrat votes. And the corollary: within each classification by education, the richer people tended to vote Republican.

Also, it's good to see class politics being taken seriously by the far right.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
The working classes, or the equivalent thereof, are most prevalent in urban areas. Which, in the vast majority of cases, voted remain. Glasgow. Manchester. Bristol. Liverpool. What percentage of those populations do you think are represented by your city trader example?
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True to an extent, but there are plenty of relatively large cities/towns out there who either voted to Leave, or came close to doing so. Stoke was a high Leave area. So was Hull. As was Middlesbrough. Ipswich voted Leave. So did Bradford. Swansea too. And Nottingham. Birmingham's one of the UK's biggest cities and was also a narrow Leave vote.

While most of the big, urban cities such as London, Manchester, Glasgow and (overwhelmingly) Edinburgh were all for Remain, there were a lot of mid-sized to fairly large cities who voted Leave. And cities don't all contain the same types of people too due to their vastness...the urban, metropolitan hub of a city is very different to more derelict areas which perhaps don't feel like they've had such a positive experience in regards to immigration. Overall the Leave vote massively benefited from older people in rural areas who have little to fear from migration, but there are definitely a number of cities out there in which there's a lot of discontent. That discontent has been shown through Brexit.
 
A 'deal or no deal' Brexit vote.

It's beyond me how anyone could imagine anything else. Did people really think that the EU would negotiate, then wait for parliament to decide they wanted better terms, meet again, and say 'oh well, this changes everything, there's actually a shedload more we can do for you that we forgot about, so take this back to your parliament and see if they'll vote to accept it this time, in fact, take as many votes as you want, I'm sure we'll always find something extra we can give'.

Except it seems some folk really did think that. Crazy.
 
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Will Absolute said:
Posters arguing that education itself is a significant causal agent in support for the EU shouldn't forget: "correlation does not imply causation". In this case, I think education and EU support are both effects of the primary cause - social class.

People from the higher social classes are better educated, have different jobs, live in different areas, are unlikely to be on housing lists, etc. In particular, they're far less likely to be exposed to the adverse consequences of immigration. And their lives and careers are much more likely to benefit from the opportunities of EU membership.

A guy who lives on a working class housing estate riven with racial tension and competing with immigrants for poorly paid, unskilled jobs may see the EU very differently to his more fortunate fellow countryman, who's just spent two years in a Frankfurt finance company, and is now returning to take up a lucrative job in the City.
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As a middle class, degree educated person i face plenty of competition from well educated immigrants for jobs. I just dont hate them.
 
Stanley Road said:
As a working class uneducated person, i work with people from all over the world and they are great. Still hate the eu tho
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But always remember that the EU loves you, you are one of us.;)
 
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