Should have been clearer by paying for not allowing free movement I did mean by way of tariffs on our exports.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Should have been clearer by paying for not allowing free movement I did mean by way of tariffs on our exports.
The pound is clearly important to you but not to me, is your pension in pounds by chance? I am now buying all our companys IT hardware in the uk, cheaper for the company more business for our supplier. Fom is a non issue as far as I'm concerned as i work with dozens of non eu people. Passport control is a must and i am glad we are seeing that take off in Holland. whatever the uk does badly it will carry on badly doing in or out. I might ne in favour of the eu if i could see fairness, equality and everyone having a great standard of living, i just dont see it, maybe you do.
... im an effort to defeat his old 'friend' David C just for the sake of it.
While you're probably right about Johnson being a liar from the start, he recently acknowledges that it wouldn't be wise to cut ties completely. Chorley however appears to have his head just burried in the sand as Michael Gove exemplifies it.
He is obviously totally unaware about the amount of EU-funded reasearch that is going on in the UK which will, depending on the deal, dry up significantly or completely. Given how May and her government acted so far, I consider it highly unlikely they are willing to spend anything near the EU funds. Hence, scientists with and without a EU passport currently working in the UK will move where the research grants move. That's how the science community has been working for decades, it's a very mobile bunch. The UK will lose highly skilled tax payers and of course every lower skilled job that come with high skill jobs. If that's what the UK want, so be it. There isn't a single element of 'scare' in this.
As you point out I'm really stupid, so would you please clarify on what you are pointing out as the doomsday scenario? Is it the EU funding, or the skills loss? One is replaceable, and the other is retainable, if in the UK interest.
The funding is replaceable but the skills aren't. UK academics and researchers are currently at the bottom of the list for multinational projects because of the uncertainty around Brexit. Now, with some luck and willpower from our negotiators that is something we can regain, but how much does the government really care about our universities? The last 7 years would suggest not very much. Being cut off from massive multinational research is pretty bad, because it means we'll start lagging behind a lot of countries without substantial increases in UK based funding.
Tbh anything involving young people tends to be near the bottom of their priorities.
It's not just young people though, even researchers are kinda screwed because as university endowments dwindle so does their funding. And we all lose out if our academics and scientists lose pace with the rest of the world.
Yeah true. May's got history with tampering with drug related science reports that contradict her own beliefs though so makes sense as to why she'd be happy to see them cut further.
I always thought everything a politician said had already been dispersed and analyzed by the market hours in advance.
Can you elaborate? interested as i'm type 1 diabetic like May, and would have thought she'd have an interest in medical research at least.
No the pound is not important to me personally , I changed my private pension before the referendum, excellent result personally.
Also as I said before, the weaker the pound, the better for me, furnished my whole living room since the referendum at a great discount. Your company is profiting from the weak pound as well but a weaker and weaker pound is not sustainable.
I do value freedom of movement, that's why I'm taking French citizenship.
There'll always be winners and losers in any society. Just that imo there'll be a lot more losers in the UK because of Brexit.
Anything I've said said is not from a personal point of view. The only personal impact is the bother of going through the process of gaining citizenship.
As an example, if there was an EU wide project concerning type 1 diabetes, and the head researcher was someone at an Italian university he's now more likely to decline UK academics and researchers because the uncertainty jeopardizes the continuation and success of the project. The research will still happen, but the people who gain expertise won't be from UK institutions.
The current big EU project is Horizon 2020, and UK academics have complained that Brexit has harmed their chances of getting on project, because if you're going to assemble a team of people it's relatively unwise to pick people who may have to be expelled in the near future. This doesn't benefit anyone involved, obviously both the UK and EU want the best people and the best projects - but people don't want to take risks that could harm their success.
I think the best thing I have read in this entire thread
Make the most of other people's daftness. They'll be plenty of bigger vultures circling.
I believe the case in question involved May tampering with/silencing a report which indicated the benefits of decriminalising/legalising drugs in some form due to her own personal views on the matter.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...idn-t-like-the-conclusions-nick-a6988616.html
Probably not related your case as such, but I do think it shows that May (evidenced by her strong religious convictions) is someone who very much goes on personal feeling as opposed to rationalised, scientific evidence. Which most politicians do to some extent, to be fair.
I was just jesting. However I will wait for the bigger apocalypse/vultures.
I know. However, let's see what May says next week.
See all of that in the UK or any other country around the world do you? It has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.
Well we'll see what drama is made of it.
Will she say 'Brexit means Brexit' or will she say it will be a 'red white and blue brexit' or will they have scripted her a new and even more pointless slogan?
Because she won't be giving anymore detail than that.
Given that your original reply made no reference whatsoever to the demographic cited, i think it a fair assumption to have made at the time. And what irony, you would presume to call me a pompous ass for something which you then proceed to do yourself, telling someone what they believe.
Your side of the argument offered millions of people no cause for hope, yet they were supposed to obediently form a line and vote for Remain regardless. Pah! Well we know what they thought of that idea.
Except that i am young and not in possession of a great fortune (on the contrary). And here you go again with the assumptions, somehow Leave's concerns must be hollow or disingenuous. Nor did I ever say that it was the only option for change, although it is clearly one route (and the one they chose), even if there are some bumps in the road in the early stages.
As i have stated repeatedly, this was a decision which must also be considered over the longer term. We took years, decades to get to this point, yet the success of our altered course is being determined in a time-frame of months.
In this regard in particular, i think a transitional agreement is something we should be seeking. Consider the advance notice open to the Government, there is no reason why there should not be a framework for our future relationship with Ireland ready to go in 2019. It is in the interest of all parties for some sort of preferential status to be granted to the respective citizenry, and so far as is practicable Westminster should match previous funding commitments. I've always assumed that a deal would be reached, on account of the unique situation compared to other EU members.
Admittedly, it's not quite as enjoyable, but...
Of course the fall in sterling will have an effect, yet there is also some additional context in this sector.
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Neither have I said that you're stupid nor do I think you are. You are just incredibly ignorant, that's all. I'm confident you can work out what
means.
As I've written earlier, I don't think that May will throw billions to the research community as the EU have been doing.
Further Brexit court cases to be launched in Dublin and London
Government faces two more potential hurdles to process of leaving EU, on top of supreme court’s impending verdict on article 50 case
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...urt-cases-to-be-launched-in-dublin-and-london
These two cases shall be very interesting.
Government faces two more potential hurdles to process of leaving EU, on top of supreme court’s impending verdict on article 50 case
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...urt-cases-to-be-launched-in-dublin-and-london
These two cases shall be very interesting.
https://infacts.org/brexiters-bmw-argument-heads-crash/
Regarding BMWs and how the German automobile industry will go tits up unless they give in to the empire demands
Such big-picture calculations may not be the only consideration for German industry. A survey of 2,900 German companies found that a quarter expect to benefit as a result of business being diverted from the UK post-Brexit, whereas only one in ten firms are seriously concerned about the impact of Brexit on their activities.
Many firms invest in the UK to use it as a launchpad for serving the entire EU market with its 500 million people. If we lose full access to that market, other countries will be able to lure investors to their shores instead.
The argument that the EU needs the UK more than we need it was never strong. After all, our exports to the EU are 13% of our GDP, whereas their exports to us represent just 3% of its GDP.
Regarding BMWs and how the German automobile industry will go tits up unless they give in to the empire demands
Such big-picture calculations may not be the only consideration for German industry. A survey of 2,900 German companies found that a quarter expect to benefit as a result of business being diverted from the UK post-Brexit, whereas only one in ten firms are seriously concerned about the impact of Brexit on their activities.
Many firms invest in the UK to use it as a launchpad for serving the entire EU market with its 500 million people. If we lose full access to that market, other countries will be able to lure investors to their shores instead.
The argument that the EU needs the UK more than we need it was never strong. After all, our exports to the EU are 13% of our GDP, whereas their exports to us represent just 3% of its GDP.
Hugo Dixon pulling the uk together, that's going well
It's not irony, it's called giving you a taste of your own medicine.
It wasn't a vote about offering hope, it was a vote about not pointlessly sabotaging the country. Millions of those same people who have howled like banshees about taking back control and making Britain great again were strangely nowhere to be seen over the last god knows how many general election cycles, when they had a very real and genuine opportunity to affect positive change by setting the direction of the country.
People talk about how the main parties are all the same, but the mechanisms have always been there for people to influence how the parties set their platforms and which leaders they choose, but most people never cared enough to spend the time and effort to actually do so. Instead they sat back on their fat asses, watched corporate interests take over the country and then cried like little girls about how no-one represents them any more.
So now here we are, a vote that amounted to 'shall we continue as we are or just burn the whole thing down' and people reached for their lighters. Fair enough, let's watch the whole thing burn.
I notice you ignored the question at why Leavers now consider macro-economic data relevant again. But feck me 'assumptions'
Yes, its an assumption to think that a Conservative led, Leave campaign headed up by - actually you know what, I was going to list the leading lights of the Leave Campaign but its an exercise in futility. If you genuinely think the leaders of Leave cared about the working class, or even our wondrous un-elected Leader (but thats only a problem when you're lying about democratic deficits in the EU), saw them (and see them) as anything other than stock to be manipulated then theres no other word for it, you're delusional.This is not to say that the issues were hollow or disingenuous, or that some of the people (although admittedly no one of any importance) didn't genuinely care, Dennis Skinner somewhat foolishly threw his lot in with the Tories, and I can understand the argument for a so-called 'Lexit', but you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to think that this Brexit, and anyone in any real position of power, or tasked with carrying it out, has the slightest interest.
But sure, lets pretend everyone voted for Brexit for the same reason. You're already pretending like I said that you were old and rich above and not that you had more in common with them so whats one more fantasy?
I just really wish you'd stop talking about Brexit as if you were a spokesperson for the Leave Campaign and would stop defending absolutely every daft and insipid thing said in its favour and stick to speaking about what you think, why you voted for it, and what you hope to achieve from it we'd all be better off. At the minute you're nigh on impossible to converse with because you'll post what you think one day and a completely contradictory, opposing thing the next; you don't have to be as slippery as Farage to believe in Brexit.
I'm not having a go at you for voting out of self-interest, and maybe you actually do genuinely think its a vote that will improve peoples lives, thats fine. What I have a real issue with is you painting a Leave vote as a vote of benevolent compassion and a Remain vote as one of greed.
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Quite possibly but at some point in the not too distant future, she'll have to divulge more than that. We all know she's been putting it off for as long as she possibly can. Her talk of Brexit for everyone is impossible, either there are going to be a lot of unhappy Leavers or a lot of unhappy Remainers or even all of them may be unhappy.
Don't underestimate her. She will surprise everyone and go for blue, red & white exit !
Brexit: Theresa May's Article 50 plans set to be delayed by months due to Stormont crisis legal challenge
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-theresa-may-illegal-article-50-a7526126.html
The headline is a bit sensational, what Long actually says is this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-theresa-may-illegal-article-50-a7526126.html
The headline is a bit sensational, what Long actually says is this:
I'd say we already know May's negotiating position. She wants free trade with Europe to the degree that can be reconciled with full resumption of British national sovereignty.
There's nothing particularly ambiguous about her stance. Britain will take full control of its borders and no longer be subject to EU law or the dictates of the EU commission. It then becomes a question of what kind of trading relationship, satisfactory to both parties, can be negotiated from that starting point.
It's neither sensible, nor practical, for May to be more explicit than that. At the moment Britain doesn't know what the EU's red lines are likely to be - the EU doesn't know itself. We're not talking about negotiating with a single nation speaking with a single voice. Who knows what the EU's 'final' position will be when the smoke clears? If history is anything to go by, the EU will cobble together some kind of byzantine fudge.
The EU has never controlled any countries' borders and the two points I have underlined aren't compatible.
And yet this leaves several problems. How will the border in Ireland be impacted? How will Scotland react to a hard Brexit when they overwhelmingly voted to Remain? How will it affect Gibraltar, an actual part of mainland Europe? Additionally, how will this affect British business? If the UK becomes isolated from Europe many businesses may seek to instead move towards mainland Europe in greater numbers, and the so-called 'special deal' with Nissan won't be something the government can do with everyone who threatens to leave.
It's worth noting (again) that for all May's rhetoric on border control and immigration, as home secretary she did little to actually reduce immigration when the UK already has full control of non-EU migration. I believe it's often been well above 100k for year and yet it's remained at its current level - any claims that they're actually going to do something about it have been borne out of the pressure being placed on the Tories by UKIP in the wake of Brexit.
FOM means the EU has prevented countries from controlling theirs, would be the argument.
Doesn't Canada have a newly signed free trade deal without FOM?
Incredibly ignorant of what exactly?
You omitted the most important three words of the sentence - "to the degree". It's obvious that Britain isn't going to have the same trading relationship with Europe outside as it enjoyed within the EU. The degree to which trade is hampered or restricted will be the subject of the negotiations.
If the EU can dictate an open border policy in respect of EU citizens, no individual EU country has sovereign control of its borders.
Freedom of movement =/= border control.
Also, the people which voted for Brexit are way to stupid to gasp that the UK was one of the countries which profitted the most from FOM....
No that's not what it means, FOM tells you that EU citizens have the right to spend up to 3 months on your soil, that right has been granted by the members of the EU not the EU itself. Other than that you can and should control your borders.
And there is no Visa between the EU and Canada, the last two countries with Visa are Bulgaria and Romania and it will be lifted this year.
The EU doesn't dictate anything about the borders, the borders don't have to be opened, the EU only harmonized rules in order to allow the existence of open borders but countries can have closed borders. The only thing is that EU citizens are granted 3 months without being legally obliged to register themselves.
I don't understand what you're saying here. It's all a misunderstanding? There's no freedom of movement within the EU?