Yes, that's what's happened, there is definitely a total lack of common sense.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Yes, that's what's happened, there is definitely a total lack of common sense.
Quite possibly, what do you think the government would look like if there hadn't been the promise of a referendum?
I honestly don't know but I think a bigger chunk of the Parliamentary Conservative party would have left for UKIP.
As the UK lurches further and further to the right
I have a question for people who probably, or may, know more about this than i do.
Should the UK go for a soft-brexit (so to speak) with continued acces to the single market, and continued free moment of people, then what exactly is the point of leaving? My understanding is that to continue access to the single market, we must allow free movement, and we must all still contribute to the EU and follow their laws, all whilst having no say in anything. What exactly would be the point in voting leave, just to be told by the EU what you can and can't do, whilst also paying them £x a week? Surely thats pretty much what we have now and we do have say in things??
Of course, as i say, my knowledge of this is pretty low but it makes no sense at all?
Should the UK go for a soft-brexit (so to speak) with continued acces to the single market, and continued free moment of people, then what exactly is the point of leaving? My understanding is that to continue access to the single market, we must allow free movement, and we must all still contribute to the EU and follow their laws, all whilst having no say in anything. What exactly would be the point in voting leave, just to be told by the EU what you can and can't do, whilst also paying them £x a week? Surely thats pretty much what we have now and we do have say in things??
Of course, as i say, my knowledge of this is pretty low but it makes no sense at all?
Your last 5 words sums it up perfectly.
Hard Brexit = hard economic times ahead.
Soft Brexit = what was the point
Don't forget the loss of the rebate too. As Bury said, hard Brexit= very damaging/took our country back (depending on your view).
Soft Brexit= as you were, but worse off/unacceptable, not what people voted for.
Bad or worse, take your pick.
If we were to go for a Soft Brexit, then in my opinion, we may as well just remain in the EU.
If we were still under some form of control by the EU and remaining in the single market, would we be able to make our own trade deals with other countries? Could we remain in the single market and form a trade deal with the US, Australia, China etc?
A soft Brexit makes no sense, no agreement will make the context better than it currently is. A hard Brexit on the other hand could be a success for the country because in theory, the UK could lower the cost of manpower and also create a proper tax heaven at the door of Europe but I'm not sure if the people who voted for Brexit will like it because only the people already rich will benefit from that.
I might be wrong though.
Exactly, but it didn't stop Boris, Gove, Duncan Smith and others banging on about the Norway and Switzerland models for future EU collaboration. It's why there's now Tory MPs standing down because they were pro Brexit but not pro Hard Brexit. If those MPs were misled then what chance did the voters stand, it really should have been made clear that Soft Brexit would change virtually nothing from what we already had but would most likely cost us more and leave us with no say in the EU rules whilst a Hard Brexit has the potential to wreck the UK economy. Even if it required 3 boxes on the ballot, it would have at least left parliament with a clearer view of the national mood to enable them to take the best course of action now.
No ref, no exit. You cant argue beyond that, its pointless
Tell that to the insurance company
The Uk would be better off staying in the EU than a soft Brexit as it would cost less and you'd still have voting powers inthe EU parliament . The Uk can still stay in the EU, it's not legally binding until Article 50 triggered.
Trying to do a deal with any other country once the UK have left will take a very long time and theoretically the UK can't start negotiating separate deals until they have actually left the EU which at earliest will be 2019 but probably more like 2020- then years of negotiations - what happens in the meantime, no-one knows
Yes but it was obvious those promoting Brexit did not have a clue what they were going on about, only appealing to people's bigotry and wishful thinking.
Now the people in charge of negotiating don't have a clue either.
You can, no-one forced the people to vote for Brexit
So if I gave you a car, and you decided to drive it straight into a brick wall, it's my fault
Question: Isn't Corbin the biggest labour figure and also anti EU? So, the labour could have organized the ref too?
Absolutely right, Bury. It seems that everyone was misled (on both sides) - some through lack of detail, some through downright lies (the extra money to the NHS myth, for example). I'm quite confident that a lot of people who voted "leave" thought that we would all definitely be financially better-off (both individually and collectively), that somehow all the people from Europe who carry out important and/or essential work here would disappear overnight and be immediately replaced by all those highly-qualified and desperate-to-work British people whom they'd kept out of a job and that we could keep all our little British quirks and foibles intact. Now it appears that it's none of the above, except the quirks and foibles.
No-one in any position of authority or influence actually broke it down in language people could understand, for the purposes of comparing the known position of status quo with the unknown position of splendid isolation. No-one presented an option of "stay but renegotiate on immigration" or whatever was really bothering people.
Next time British people take their annual holiday in Spain or Italy or France they'll start seeing what it's going to mean in practice, at least for their wallets. We've already seen it whilst we've been in Italy for the last 2 months, and we've not even started the Brexit process yet.
If you don't give me a car at all........
BTW, I don't drive, never have done, good analogy
This hasn't happened so why is it under discussion?
No tory gvt hasn't happened either but you still discussed it...
I cant quite remember what I said to the exact word but yes, something different than plodding along is correct. I also despise various heads of state in the EU and Claude( I can help you avoid paying tax )Junker makes me sick.
I do also remember saying that I'd like to push Wolfgang Schäuble down the stairs in his wheelchair.
Nothing, I guess. People would have been at home moaning about Cameron and Stan would have been boring his wife to death with the sad state of politics and the absence of change.
You're not far off the mark
couple of nights ago Jean-Claude Junk was on the news and I commented "I hate that bloke, he's a total cnut"
Yes she said, you've mentioned it a 1000 times
What do people think a post-Brexit Europe would look like ? Will it be our ambition to become "Greater Albania" ? If we get an easy ride, will others opt for the same ? Will the EU be finished as a project if we become the country to emulate ? If we hard-Brexit, won't it be in our interest to undermine the rump EU ? Would we promote discord ? Could a fractious stalemate ensue, with hyper-nationalist third & fourth parties gaining ground all over the continent ? What would Putin's course of action be, if so ?
Once we're out the planned European military pact, which we've vetoed so far, will get the go ahead. Germany re-arming ? That sounds problematic or are we going to hand Europe over to Germany ? That would drastically change our foreign policy of the last 300 years or so.
Ferdinand Mount, not exactly a swivel-eyed revolutionary, talks about "Brexosis". Of people who would rather be out even if it meant prolonged stagnation and turmoil for the nation. In footballing terms, they might be compared to Millwall fans - "No one likes us, we don't care". Millwall are in the old third division.
Once we're out the planned European military pact, which we've vetoed so far, will get the go ahead. Germany re-arming ? That sounds problematic or are we going to hand Europe over to Germany ? That would drastically change our foreign policy of the last 300 years or so.
Ferdinand Mount, not exactly a swivel-eyed revolutionary, talks about "Brexosis". Of people who would rather be out even if it meant prolonged stagnation and turmoil for the nation. In footballing terms, they might be compared to Millwall fans - "No one likes us, we don't care". Millwall are in the old third division.
Hard to know whether you could ever really understand that the brexit underclass are more interested in getting a home to live in in the UK and a chance of a decent paying job than whether they can afford a fortnight in Tuscany but please carry on with the nature of your terrible woes post brexit.
This is the exact issue in the UK which caused brexit the disconnect between their reality and yours and people like you who with the best of will have absolutely no idea about how they live.
Ballsy from Jeremy.
If the "brexit underclass" are more interested in being able to buy a home and a decent paying job, why vote for something that will bring them economic hardship. Presume these are the Tory brexit underclass.
Yup and wouldn't that be the end of the Labour party?
Firstly, i don't think these comparisons between Brexit and Nazi Germany do Remain posters here any credit whatsoever.
Secondly, the Guardian's article clearly stated that Mr Phillips resigned for reasons pre-dating the A50 court case. The other professed reasons are not particularly logical mind you, and his citing of the child refugee issue i found particularly odd.
I don't know to that you are referring with regards to the Government, so i must ask you to elaborate further there. As for Brexit...i think there are a small number of well established goals for the majority of Leave voters. One cant' speak for every last person, but nor could we for Remain, or a political party at GE.
Secondly, the Guardian's article clearly stated that Mr Phillips resigned for reasons pre-dating the A50 court case. The other professed reasons are not particularly logical mind you, and his citing of the child refugee issue i found particularly odd.
I don't know to that you are referring with regards to the Government, so i must ask you to elaborate further there. As for Brexit...i think there are a small number of well established goals for the majority of Leave voters. One cant' speak for every last person, but nor could we for Remain, or a political party at GE.
Brexit, anyway
I know exactly how people live, we live in the most economically-deprived part of our town in a small terraced house between two commercial premises, plus I've lived and worked in similar areas in Liverpool and Bradford.
Apart from that, what you're saying is the crux of my post above. They won't get a better chance of a job or a home with Brexit. Absolutely no chance whatsoever. And it would have been good if they'd been presented with a little more information before they made their choice in the referendum. Some of my neighbours voted "leave" and their reasons included "to stop Turkey becoming European" (more than one person said this, they'd read it on FaceBook or something and voted accordingly). Why did they think that would make their lives better, give them a better job or their own home?
Jesus
Nah, thats not going to happen. Brexit will happen whether any of us want it or not
UK politics are fun. Not as gaudy as American politics but with some of that same "Oh Christ, what's happening now" unpredictability.