I understand but or you are strong leader or you end doing what the right would do to avoid that they would fo anyway
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
I understand but or you are strong leader or you end doing what the right would do to avoid that they would fo anyway
I don't disagree. But when you see sensible center left parties lose to insane right wing parties so often you can see why they do it.
yes, I agree with you. that is what had been happening everywhere that I observed the last 20 years. And this way, little by little we kept dragging the whole political spectrum to the right. The right more far right and the left to the center till a point that musk is center left
Joking apart, left as I understand it is practically nonexistent or at least, not relevant
They are losing because since 2010 they've either nominated complete unelectable leaders (Corbyn), or ones to be 'safe' or weak without a slither of personality or charisma (Starmer). - Lurching from Miliband to Corbyn to Starmer has been the definition of identity crisis.
Corbyn was only really unelectable because of the mass right wing propaganda campaign. I mean, Boris was elected, so rationality is far less important than mass right wing propaganda. Anyone who couldn't see that he was a slimy, untrustworthy, dishonest, buffoon shouldn't be allowed to drive unsupervised.
I think you raise a good point as well as a bit of a conspiracy theory. There is currently discourse in the US about how/if the media are enabling Trump [again] and their responsibility to prevent it. Corbyn came off as untrustworthy though (regardless of reality), whereas both Boris and Trump have managed to convince large swathes of the population they are trustworthy. This isn't a mass media campaign, but the individual quality of the candidate. You can rationally conclude that Corbyn should have been unelectable anyway, but that the others should also have been. And question why media were unable or unwilling to drive home that unelectability point in the case of BJ. And the unfettered use of dark money to help drive people. (Which I think is more influential than traditional media)
I'm not suggesting some dark cabal of right wingers is operating in the shadows. The far right mass media is operating openly in full sight, and proud of their insanity, prouder still that so many believe their bullshit. Of course money/priviledge is self sustaining, so more ignored than dark in most cases.
The right wing press will attack them regardless. Blair got the Sun's backing by cosying up to Murdoch. Not by appealing to the editorial team. The rest still supported the Tories.
The papers are largely irrelevant these days though. They still retain the ability to drive headlines in other media every now and then but in an ever decreasing fashion. Social Media is a far bigger driver in determining opion now. That has the ability to tap into emotion arguments and anecdotal evidence like tabloids could only dream of back in the day. Insane right wing parties feed off that stuff. Through in a stagnant or declining and it festers.
Doubt even hard core republicans truly thought Donald was trustworthy. He was just more likely to do the things they wanted than Hillary was. It wasn't a debate over who would do x better. It was a debate about what x was.
Boris said he'll follow through on Brexit. No one else did.
Didn't everybody said that they would follow through brexit, even corbyn and starmer?
Perhaps not those in government/media, but a large number of people definitely think he is trustworthy and honest for some reason. He has a Taylor Swift like following for a reason.
The papers alone are somewhat less influential than they once were but not irrelevant and in any case Murdoch and the like are far more than just the redtops these days e.g. Fox News. The various new media does have an effect and I guess if you are a lying sack of shit who has no integrity or honesty then en masse it is going to have a compounding effect and make it be harder for more ethical and truthful people to be hear.
Labour ended up campaigning on a second referendum with the options to back a renegotiated exit deal with the EU or remain a member. Stopped short of declaring they'd back remaining in that referendum as an official policy.
Like arguing about the best way to kill yourself with a blunt can opener. Pointless
So Boris was not the only one. Corbynn and other labours didn't agree on the way UK was leaving. And many other tories were in favour also
Boris was just the opportunist that took the power
Boris and the Tories were the only ones offering a guaranteed brexit. Any vote for Labour or the Lib Dems meant a potential second referendum and remain winning. Probably by a decent margin.
With the decline of the papers Murdoch must be losing influence in UK politics. We don't have an equivalent of Fox News yet. Although Murdoch is trying it with TalkTV and various other sinister people with GB News.
Fox News still gives him clout other there. Hopefully its too late to establish that over here. We've never really been serial TV news watchers. Be a bit weird for the population to take that up en masse now. Might grab just enough eyeballs to retain some influence though.
Yes, you are right. I am not that sure thought that a second referendum would win. Specially for a big margin after the success of the tory party
It would only take a slight swing for a second referendum to return a different result. It wouldn't have been a landslide but the years of chaos that followed the first one would probably have been enough to convince a lot of people to change their vote.
Worth pointing out the Tories got 43% of the vote last election. The majority of voters didn't vote for them. They have a decent majority in parliament due to the FPTP system.
Well, "A majority didn't vote for them" doesn't mean that a majority would vote for not brexit. We all know the a decent chunk of labour voted for brexit, so libs. The truth is that we will never know, but it seems to me that after the 2019 elections it showed that brexit is what UK wanted or couldn't care less
True that it doesn't mean those votes would reflect a 2nd referendum result. But given you only needed a 2% swing to have a different outcome, its not that far fetched to assume the swing needed to get a different result was there.
The Tories got the majority they did by siphoning Labour leave voters. They're part of that 43% the Tories got. Even if you account for a % of Labour leave voters who still want to leave continuing to vote for Labour, you need to balance that out with Tory voters that still vote Tory despite wanting to remain.
Sure, and 2% swing could go the other way also. But from the events since 2016, occam's razor tells me that UK is brexiteer, but again, we will never know in certainty
Brexit always was about racism. The popular gutter press this morning...
Brexit always was about racism. The popular gutter press this morning...
1 year later, immigration 600k up on top of the average
yes lets slash immigration back to pre-brexit levels, that will fix everything again
So we left the EU to control foreigners' numbers only for it to go up significantly despite have the Tory party in Government? Well that went well.
The funny thing is that immigration from the rest of the world increased greatly because of Brexit.
2023 will be a surprise for the Brexiters when it could be even higher than 2022.
The figures would be even higher if the EU citizens had not returned back to the EU in their droves (feeling unwanted) plus the UK 'expats' returning to the UK because they can no longer live in the EU and those who were planning to leave the UK can no longer do so easily.
Add to that the new culture will be - any immigrants coming on a work visa will come for a short time, not be able to bring their family and thus no interest in making a life for themselves in the UK. One set will come and then be replaced by another set in a couple of years. Revolving doors.
Add to that the jobs that the Brits don't want to do will now have to be done by them.
They got it all wrong.
And you won't get one, the media laws in the UK won't allow it, newspapers may be in decline but their social media and website outlets aren't
look forward to see how those trade talks with India will go when they get onto talking about student visas etc..
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/...xit-electric-car-sales-tariffs-carmakers.html
Now that is very decent of them isn't it.
Now that is very decent of them isn't it.
It's a proposal put forward by the European Commission to be decided by the European Council later this month. If the European Council agree then it will extend the grace period for a maximum of 3 years. They will agree if it benefits the EU's sales of EV's to the UK.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_6369
Thank you for this.
Certainly taking on a lot of Hongkongers, good on the UK to finally do the right thing after 26 years.
Meet Nigel Farage’s secret weapon: his girlfriend Laure Ferrari
I’m a Celebrity star and French populist kept affair under wraps for years — and his 2010 plane crash almost caused scandal. Now she dreams of life with him in No 10
I’m a Celebrity star and French populist kept affair under wraps for years — and his 2010 plane crash almost caused scandal. Now she dreams of life with him in No 10
UK voters want closer relationship with EU in ‘significant’ shift since Brexit
Major study finds public see ties with Europe as more important than links with US and many ‘exhausted’ by ‘toxic’ debate
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...hip-with-eu-in-significant-shift-since-brexit
Major study finds public see ties with Europe as more important than links with US and many ‘exhausted’ by ‘toxic’ debate
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...hip-with-eu-in-significant-shift-since-brexit
Oh that's fine. They will obviously have the choice to do that in a referendum soon.
The same public who voted to leave the EU without even a basic understanding of why.... but voted to leave anyway.
Well tough shit. You made your bed so now lie in it and stop moaning.
Quote from that article:
"While there was little evidence to suggest that people in this country felt European, or regarded themselves as sharing European values, they were nonetheless open to working more with the EU out of pragmatic interest."
Maybe they felt and share African or Asian values, whatever they are.
Clearly they still do not understand what the problems are and will be or what they've voted for. Maybe they will by the end of the decade.
"While there was little evidence to suggest that people in this country felt European, or regarded themselves as sharing European values, they were nonetheless open to working more with the EU out of pragmatic interest."
Maybe they felt and share African or Asian values, whatever they are.
Clearly they still do not understand what the problems are and will be or what they've voted for. Maybe they will by the end of the decade.
That would require a level of political education which we don't provide the populace at any point.
With the three most popular political parties in the UK in the polls at the moment being pro-Brexit plus the pro-Brexit press, they will only discover from experience. They think Brexit and the consequences are all over but it's barely begun.