Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[JPRouve]

Reviews are generally minimalist and about technical aspects. The review could lead to a maximalist approach but the key points have already been ruled out in that statement, so it would already be a silly attempt and they also tend to take a very long time, the Swiss-EU collapsed deal being an example.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Why if as you say it is just a minor review.

I mean if he makes people think it is more than a minor review. All that is happening in 2025, whatever Starmer says, is minor tweaks here and there to the trade agreement.

Nothing on the Brexit agreement is going to change.

Imagine if every time a new government in the UK came to power every few years, they said to the EU that they'd like to change it again.

The UK are either in or out, Starmer still thinks he can cherry pick the bits he likes. After seven years of the same nonsense, it never stops.

The Uk are wasting more time with this person. Although he seems to be now trying his best not to be elected.

 

[horsechoker]

I believe that closer alignment is the way forward as a lot of the voting base won't go for immediate re-entry. The only thing is it requires successive EU friendly governments and I think the UK is only ever one or two elections away from voting the tories in at any time.

With the method outlined above the UK should be back in the EU by 2080

 

[Wibble]

I believe that closer alignment is the way forward as a lot of the voting base won't go for immediate re-entry. The only thing is it requires successive EU friendly governments and I think the UK is only ever one or two elections away from voting the tories in at any time.

With the method outlined above the UK should be back in the EU by 2080

Another 57 years of disaster? Excellent.

 

[golden_blunder]

I believe that closer alignment is the way forward as a lot of the voting base won't go for immediate re-entry. The only thing is it requires successive EU friendly governments and I think the UK is only ever one or two elections away from voting the tories in at any time.

With the method outlined above the UK should be back in the EU by 2080

We will all be worm food at that stage. The best we can hope for is that our children’s generation have more brain cells and don’t like cutting their nose off to spite their face

 

[Red in STL]

Or he understands it and is trying to bamboozle people.

Of course he's trying to bamboozle people, he's a politician, that's the number one skill required to be one

 

[Maticmaker]

I am old enough to understand that you can not take what is said like this too literally.
You and me and plenty of others were highly critical of the Brexit agreement Boris Johnson agreed to in that it was clear he had no idea what he had signed up to. And my understanding is that there is a review in 2025.
I for one am happy that he is looking for a better/closer working relationship with the EU.

We can not be highly critical of the current relationship and criticise Starmer for wanting to improve it.

Spot on my friend... Starmer has to start from 'where he is...'
There is a review in 2025 which he is signalling now that we would like to take up, it makes sense. As you say lots of people were upset with the Brexit result, but keep crying 'woe is me' doesn't help. It makes sense on lots of levels that Starmer tries to establish a better relationship whatever level he can; already action on science and policing are underway with the EU, much more could be achieved. Brexit is over it was when the referendum result was implemented, there is no going back (as the Tories would wish) and playing the old songs again, but there is a way forward for both the UK and the EU... you know it makes sense, all we have to hope for now is Labour is elected with a sizeable majority!

 

[Buster15]

You realize that I acknowledge the fact that I was wrong in that statement? Or was your point to have a dig?

No and I do apologise for this. It was a silly thing to say especially as we were having a civil conversation. Please don't stop responding in the future because I am interested in understanding this more .

 

[Buster15]

I mean if he makes people think it is more than a minor review. All that is happening in 2025, whatever Starmer says, is minor tweaks here and there to the trade agreement.

Nothing on the Brexit agreement is going to change.

Imagine if every time a new government in the UK came to power every few years, they said to the EU that they'd like to change it again.

The UK are either in or out, Starmer still thinks he can cherry pick the bits he likes. After seven years of the same nonsense, it never stops.

The Uk are wasting more time with this person. Although he seems to be now trying his best not to be elected.

Understood.
Is it really a case of in or out. Can you not be out and still have certain agreements on certain things which are deemed to be mutually beneficial.

I have always found in life that if you can establish a good working relationship and agree a common purpose, it is perfectly possible to achieve things you thought not possible.
Wishful thinking maybe. But I do sense that Starmer intends to strike up a significantly better understanding with the EU.

 

[JPRouve]

Understood.
Is it really a case of in or out. Can you not be out and still have certain agreements on certain things which are deemed to be mutually beneficial.

I have always found in life that if you can establish a good working relationship and agree a common purpose, it is perfectly possible to achieve things you thought not possible.
Wishful thinking maybe. But I do sense that Starmer intends to strike up a significantly better understanding with the EU.

It depends on what you are trying to fix, unless I'm mistaken the issue that the UK currently has with the current agreements is that there is too much friction. No agreement that doesn't involve joining the EUCU and SM as full members will get rid of those frictions unless for some reason the EU decides to get rid of all standards within it's area. I mentioned it before but being partial members of the EUCU/SM doesn't even help you all that much Turkey and Norway aren't full members and they both have borders with high friction when it comes to freight, trucks are stuck for hours if not days in some cases, especially in the case of Turkey.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Understood.
Is it really a case of in or out. Can you not be out and still have certain agreements on certain things which are deemed to be mutually beneficial.

I have always found in life that if you can establish a good working relationship and agree a common purpose, it is perfectly possible to achieve things you thought not possible.
Wishful thinking maybe. But I do sense that Starmer intends to strike up a significantly better understanding with the EU.

There are agreements on certain things like being an associate member of Horizon, as are other non-EU countries - the reason the Uk weren't participating was because they wouldn't implement the NI protocol properly. That has been resolved, at least for the time being. There are agreements on law co-operation and many other things.

The animosity between the UK and the EU is largely seen as from the UK side pumped up by the British press. The EU are mainly just getting on with other problems.

Someone coming along and saying they want to extensively rewrite the trade agreement will probably not go down very well.

The agreement is here (2530 pages of it): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:22021A0430(01). I wonder if Starmer has read it. It's due for review after five years which is really 2026, ratified by the UK and all 27 EU countries.

What is certain is that the many benefits available as being part of the EU/SM/CU are not available to a third country, which the UK has become.

 

[Buster15]

It depends on what you are trying to fix, unless I'm mistaken the issue that the UK currently has with the current agreements is that there is too much friction. No agreement that doesn't involve joining the EUCU and SM as full members will get rid of those frictions unless for some reason the EU decides to get rid of all standards within it's area. I mentioned it before but being part members of the EUCU/SM doesn't even help you all that much Turkey and Norway aren't full members and they both have borders with high friction when it comes to freight, trucks are stuck for hours if not days in some cases, especially in the case of Turkey.

Thank you for explaining this.

 

[Buster15]

There are agreements on certain things like being an associate member of Horizon, as are other non-EU countries - the reason the Uk weren't participating was because they wouldn't implement the NI protocol properly. That has been resolved, at least for the time being. There are agreements on law co-operation and many other things.

The animosity between the UK and the EU is largely seen as from the UK side pumped up by the British press. The EU are mainly just getting on with other problems.

Someone coming along and saying they want to extensively rewrite the trade agreement will probably not go down very well.

The agreement is here (2530 pages of it): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:22021A0430(01). I wonder if Starmer has read it. It's due for review after five years which is really 2026, ratified by the UK and all 27 EU countries.

What is certain is that the many benefits available as being part of the EU/SM/CU are not available to a third country, which the UK has become.

Thank you for explaining this.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Thank you for explaining this.

An even bigger problem is that I am sure that he's not talking about the trade agreement by what he was saying. I'm convinced he's talking about the Withdrawal Agreement which has been his narrative all along. It's a total no-go area.

 

[Rooney24]

15 months or so out for a GE with Labour well ahead in most polls.

why would Starmer open this topic ? Doesn’t make a lot of sense

 

[Buster15]

15 months or so out for a GE with Labour well ahead in most polls.

why would Starmer open this topic ? Doesn’t make a lot of sense

That was what I was wondering. But he appears to be building a narrative showing the difference between the Tories and Labour.

 

[André Dominguez]

So... perspectives for 2025? The post-brexit period will be over by 31 December of 2024, customs taxes will become more expensive for products UK <-> EU.
I've read that England is hiring Nigerian, Indian and Pakistan health professionals to suppress the eastern europeans that moved from the UK, and agriculture/livestock/etc deals are being done with India, Pakistan and Australia.
Not completely convinced of UK importing food products from countries that are not required to follow the same safety rules, like the use of chemicals, but I guess UK will somehow make those companies follow the same quality standards.

 

[Red in STL]

So... perspectives for 2025? The post-brexit period will be over by 31 December of 2024, customs taxes will become more expensive for products UK <-> EU.
I've read that England is hiring Nigerian, Indian and Pakistan health professionals to suppress the eastern europeans that moved from the UK, and agriculture/livestock/etc deals are being done with India, Pakistan and Australia.
Not completely convinced of UK importing food products from countries that are not required to follow the same safety rules, like the use of chemicals, but I guess UK will somehow make those companies follow the same quality standards.

Anyone who imports food has to comply with UK safety rules, unlikely to be an issue as the UK imports food from all over the world currently and has done for centuries

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So... perspectives for 2025? The post-brexit period will be over by 31 December of 2024, customs taxes will become more expensive for products UK <-> EU.
I've read that England is hiring Nigerian, Indian and Pakistan health professionals to suppress the eastern europeans that moved from the UK, and agriculture/livestock/etc deals are being done with India, Pakistan and Australia.
Not completely convinced of UK importing food products from countries that are not required to follow the same safety rules, like the use of chemicals, but I guess UK will somehow make those companies follow the same quality standards.

No deal with India or Pakistan; India just wants to sell services to the UK for Sunak's wife's benefit.

As for the CPTTP - which is not yet ratified - the trade secretary, Kemi Badenoch, who is on a similar intelligence level to Liz Truss is asking for advice.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nd-trades-request-for-the-fsa-and-fsss-advice

 

[FireballXL5]

Sunak and Starmer know this as well...

We can’t alter Brexit deal to appease car industry, says European commissioner

Thierry Breton stands firm amid opposition to incoming tariffs on electric vehicle exports between EU and UK

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...pease-car-industry-says-european-commissioner

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Sunak and Starmer know this as well...

We can’t alter Brexit deal to appease car industry, says European commissioner

Thierry Breton stands firm amid opposition to incoming tariffs on electric vehicle exports between EU and UK

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...pease-car-industry-says-european-commissioner

Reminder to Starmer:

He believes the trade deal should not be unpicked.

“If something has been negotiated, it shouldn’t be changed,” Breton said.

Sunak maybe does realise only 6% (and falling) of EV's sold in the UK are made in the UK. 47% of EV's sold in the UK are made in the EU.

 

[golden_blunder]

So... perspectives for 2025? The post-brexit period will be over by 31 December of 2024, customs taxes will become more expensive for products UK <-> EU.
I've read that England is hiring Nigerian, Indian and Pakistan health professionals to suppress the eastern europeans that moved from the UK, and agriculture/livestock/etc deals are being done with India, Pakistan and Australia.
Not completely convinced of UK importing food products from countries that are not required to follow the same safety rules, like the use of chemicals, but I guess UK will somehow make those companies follow the same quality standards.

Don’t think they will. They will spin a narrative that it’s totally safe. Remember the time JRM said it’s safe to eat Australian beef because he does so?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

This is so sad:

Labour frontbencher James Murray has also been doing the media rounds to defend Keir Starmer following the Labour leader’s speech in Canada where he talked about the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

Murray insisted Starmer had been clear about the party’s “red lines” with the European Union.

He told Sky News:

Keir has been clear throughout that we have red lines when it comes to our relationship with the EU post-Brexit.
We don’t want to be in the single market. We don’t want to be in a customs union. We don’t want to bring back freedom of movement.
But we do want a better trading relationship, we want a better trade and investment relationship between the UK and the EU and I think what’s really clear is that the Tories have no plan to make Brexit work, and that is impacting on businesses and our economy and fundamentally leaving people across Britain worse off.

The shadow financial secretary said there would still be areas where a Labour government would diverge from Brussels, for example by striking trade deals around the world.

He added:
All we’re seeing under the Conservatives is extra red tape on businesses, which means that it’s impacting on economic growth, which means it’s deepening the cost of living crisis.

Totally clueless position from Labour - just do not understand what Brexit means. Of course you can't diverge, you fools, otherwise you lose the deals already in place.
No CU/SM = Red tape - no escape.
Which trade deals are you planning on doing ? Labour are just as dumb as the Tories.
No hope whatsoever.

They've just riled up the Tories and the public for zero gain.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

I'm not sure if there's anything particularly controversial about what Starmer has said. Not that they won't find a way to make it controversial.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

More nonsense from Labour:

Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves defended Keir Starmer’s position of not diverging from European Union standards on workers’ rights, environmental protections or food.

She said this will mean it will be easier for an incoming Labour government to get a better deal with the EU in order to improve trade.

She told BBC Radio 4’s Today:

It shouldn’t come as a surprise to people that an incoming Labour government doesn’t want to dilute workers’ rights, environmental protections or food standards. That’s not what Labour are about.
But because we want those high standards, we think it is easier for an incoming Labour government to get a better deal with the EU to improve trading relations.
Because the truth is, the deal that Boris Johnson secured three years ago is not good enough and we have seen a decline in trade between the UK and other European neighbours.

If you dilute anything you lose the TCA deal you have - you're not getting a better one. The decline in trade is because you're outside of the SM and CU - what planet are these fools on?

 

[Buster15]

Reminder to Starmer:

He believes the trade deal should not be unpicked.

“If something has been negotiated, it shouldn’t be changed,” Breton said.

Sunak maybe does realise only 6% (and falling) of EV's sold in the UK are made in the UK. 47% of EV's sold in the UK are made in the EU.

Is that right?
I read only a few weeks ago that most of the EVs from what we term European manufacturers such as VW are actually manufactured in China. VW ID3 and ID4, Cupra Born and Polestar 2 for example.
Not sure which EU made EVs are sold in the UK.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Is that right?
I read only a few weeks ago that most of the EVs from what we term European manufacturers such as VW are actually manufactured in China. VW ID3 and ID4, Cupra Born and Polestar 2 for example.
Not sure which EU made EVs are sold in the UK.

Most of the EVs made in the UK are exported.
It's why there's this fuss about tariffs which start in 2024 in both directions.
Here's some info:
https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA_fact_sheet_EU_UK_vehicle_trade-August_2023.pdf

 

[Buster15]

Most of the EVs made in the UK are exported.
It's why there's this fuss about tariffs which start in 2024 in both directions.
Here's some info:
https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA_fact_sheet_EU_UK_vehicle_trade-August_2023.pdf

Thank you. But what I was querying was the figure that 47% of EVs sold in the UK were made in the EU.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Thank you. But what I was querying was the figure that 47% of EVs sold in the UK were made in the EU.

Those are the figures, of course the cars are made from parts from all over. But sold by EU countries to the UK. There are many different manufacturers.
To have been involved in the car industry and voted for Brexit, you'd have to be insane.

No.1 Export - cars and no.1 destination by far - the EU. Completely muck it up.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Really don't know what to say.
Beyond help.

 

[TheGame]

 

[horsechoker]

This'll eat into the 350m a week we get from leaving the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-330m-a-year-charges-post-brexit-food-imports

UK admits extra £330m a year in charges for post-Brexit animal and plant imports

Labour’s Stella Creasy elicits confirmation of higher charges to firms which some say risk further fuelling food inflation

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Coffey takes on EU's bendy banana rule, joining list of Tories attacking straw men
Boris Johnson is not attending the Conservative conference, but he was there in spirit this afternoon when Thérèse Coffey, the environment secretary, announced that she was axing an EU rule banning bendy bananas.

In her speech she declared:

My officials are cutting red tape and introducing smarter regulation.
Frankly, bent or straight, it is not for government to decide the shape of bananas you want to eat – I just want to assure you they are safe to eat.
So we will be dropping absurd regulations, including the one on bendy bananas.
Contrast all this to Labour.
They are sneakily signing up to keeping in step with whatever Europe decides.

The “ban on bendy bananas” is one of the great myths of Eurosceptic politics. As Jon Henley wrote in 2016, at the height of Brexit, there was an EU regulation covering the shape of bananas and it did say that in general they should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. But traders were free to see bananas of any shape imaginable; the rule was just there to ensure that, when traders ordered bananas graded in a certain category, they knew what they were getting.

But Coffey is not the first Tory at this conference to try to take credit for banning something that does not exist. Straw men have been everywhere.

Another one for the gullibles.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Coffey takes on EU's bendy banana rule, joining list of Tories attacking straw men
Boris Johnson is not attending the Conservative conference, but he was there in spirit this afternoon when Thérèse Coffey, the environment secretary, announced that she was axing an EU rule banning bendy bananas.

In her speech she declared:


The “ban on bendy bananas” is one of the great myths of Eurosceptic politics. As Jon Henley wrote in 2016, at the height of Brexit, there was an EU regulation covering the shape of bananas and it did say that in general they should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. But traders were free to see bananas of any shape imaginable; the rule was just there to ensure that, when traders ordered bananas graded in a certain category, they knew what they were getting.

But Coffey is not the first Tory at this conference to try to take credit for banning something that does not exist. Straw men have been everywhere.

Another one for the gullibles.

Shouldn't we be worrying about these "Straw Men"? I imagine that they'd absorb a lot of water when crossing the channel in their dingies but I'm not taking any chances. I notice that Labour aren't even saying anything about them, so I'll have no choice than to vote Tory at the next election unfortunately. Drat.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Shouldn't we be worrying about these "Straw Men"? I imagine that they'd absorb a lot of water when crossing the channel in their dingies but I'm not taking any chances. I notice that Labour aren't even saying anything about them, so I'll have no choice than to vote Tory at the next election unfortunately. Drat.

If the UK tries to become self-sufficient and the crops fail you could always resort to The Wicker Man

 

[Red in STL]

If the UK tries to become self-sufficient and the crops fail you could always resort to The Wicker Man

The UK hasn't been self sufficient in more than 200 years and won't ever be again, that would require people to pick fruit etc and TBH they'd rather starve than do that!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The UK hasn't been self sufficient in more than 200 years and won't ever be again, that would require people to pick fruit etc and TBH they'd rather starve than do that!

Maybe Thérèse Coffey would be willing to sacrifice herself for the good of the nation.

 

[horsechoker]

What's the point of McDonald's getting rid of straws if we've got strawmen everywhere?

 

[Red in STL]

What's the point of McDonald's getting rid of straws if we've got strawmen everywhere?

Don't need them then do they, more profit for Ronald

 

[FireballXL5]

At last, an actual Brexit dividend for those poverty-stricken arseholes in the City...

Cap on bankers' bonuses to be scrapped

The cap on bankers' bonuses is being removed as part of a post-Brexit shake-up of City rules, it has been confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67206997


And in other news..,

More than 1 million UK children experienced destitution last year, study finds
Severe material hardship no longer a rarity, as study reveals impact of benefit cuts and cost of living crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/society...experienced-destitution-last-year-study-finds