Taking back control. How much longer will the gullibles believe?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Taking back control. How much longer will the gullibles believe?
Anyone willing to change their mind probably will have done so by now. Or at least joined the "we were betrayed" group and accepted it's a shit show without admitting liability for it.
Anyone left are either too arrogant to concede that they made a mistake. Or they're making a killing off it at the expense of everyone else.
Sunny uplands and all that. 
Britishvolt buyer hasn't made final payment, administrators say
The Australian company that was meant to buy failed battery firm Britishvolt has missed the deadline to pay for the business, casting doubt on the deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66432641
Britishvolt buyer hasn't made final payment, administrators say
The Australian company that was meant to buy failed battery firm Britishvolt has missed the deadline to pay for the business, casting doubt on the deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66432641
And now for today's Brexit balls-up...
Blow to UK salmon industry as trial post-Brexit export scheme halted
Government delays full introduction of digital certificates intended to cut paperwork for producers
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-as-trial-post-brexit-export-scheme-is-halted
Blow to UK salmon industry as trial post-Brexit export scheme halted
Government delays full introduction of digital certificates intended to cut paperwork for producers
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-as-trial-post-brexit-export-scheme-is-halted
Sunny uplands and all that.
Britishvolt buyer hasn't made final payment, administrators say
The Australian company that was meant to buy failed battery firm Britishvolt has missed the deadline to pay for the business, casting doubt on the deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66432641
We should be taking bets on which MP has been getting paid by the investment fund.
"The Australian firm, which is ultimately owned by a New York-based investment fund called Scale Facilitation, is a start-up with little battery manufacturing experience.
Its plan for the Britishvolt site is to initially develop battery storage technology, rather than batteries for electric vehicles. But it faced issues in June, when Scale Facilitation's Australian offices were raided by police over alleged tax fraud."
The Telegraph and others have somehow latched onto the idea that Germany having a worse time of it than Britain economically is irrefutable proof that Brexit is a roaring success. The smugness is off the charts in this, particularly given that by most metric the UK economy has been struggling since Covid, just not quite as badly as Germany.
Remainer myths are crumbling as GDP beats expectations
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/remainer-myths-are-crumbling-gdp-better-than-expected/
Remainer myths are crumbling as GDP beats expectations
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/remainer-myths-are-crumbling-gdp-better-than-expected/
It's basically a religion at this point. Facts and reasoning were abandoned long ago but the followers will latch onto anything they can use to "prove" their beliefs are right. Anything that goes against is ignored or dismissed as the work of the devil (remainers).
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https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit
‘It all disappeared with Brexit’: Craft beer boom ends as more than 100 UK firms go bust
The company was set up in 2017 after the referendum for a business focussed on export to the EU.
Who would be daft enough to do that unless you believed the complete nonsense spouted by Brexiters.
At some point people will realise that Brexit is going to get worse, not better. It's not possible to get better.
‘It all disappeared with Brexit’: Craft beer boom ends as more than 100 UK firms go bust
The company was set up in 2017 after the referendum for a business focussed on export to the EU.
Who would be daft enough to do that unless you believed the complete nonsense spouted by Brexiters.
At some point people will realise that Brexit is going to get worse, not better. It's not possible to get better.
Or they could be just shit business men and it would have happened irrespective of Brexit, not everything is Brexit's fault and I say that as someone who thinks that it was the most moronic decision the country could have made
You don't set up a small business that exports to the EU in the UK, the costs and administration expenses are too high.
Makes zero sense. One day people will finally realise what was voted for. It hasn't happened yet. Maybe another three years or so.
The terrible thing is that these things tend to have a snowball effect.
As a country the UK implemented policies that actually make harder for exporters to sell their products.
Therefore lots of exporting companies (big ones and entrepreneurs) either downsize or close.
Those tens of thousands of recently unemployed go to either welfare (which consume resources for the ones in need, and if they become scarce it would mean either higher taxes or a decrease in quality of life) or the working market (which reduces real wages and spurs inequality, causing a higher need of public spending financed through either taxes or inflation -if they try to increase monetary supply-).
In the end, the general public (and specially the ones in need) were always going to pay the consequences of the decision. And all of this wasn't unpredictable at all, it was there in plain view.
Yes it was probably the easiest thing to predict ever.
They have raised barriers to the EU and to the rest of the world even though they do not realise it yet.
The Brexiters and the Brexit media are still conning the public with the 'it hasn't been properly implemented' or 'it will get better in time'
It won't because it can't.
You'd think so, but there a lot of really dumb folks out there, a lot more that we probably like to admit!
I live in the US, where apparently 10's of millions of people will vote for Trump even if he's a convicted criminal in jail, it's impossible to quantify the level of stupidity that exists!
Maybe dude, but not necessarily.
I manage two dose prep labs at work for field trials. I’ve also been developing a little side business for the last 9 years that involves storing and sub sampling chemicals (dangerous goods) for global distribution. Been a bit of a labour of love for me.
Brexit has been a disaster for us. Whereas before there were seemingly no customs barriers to speak of, only conformity checks, now we have to deal with 26 individual member states all with their own individual import practices and regulations.
Part of our contract promises a 5 working day turnaround but Brexit stopped that almost overnight as customs checks suddenly appeared, everything got bottlenecked and some countries now require phytosanitary certificates for import, which take on average 10 working days from application to issuing.
Also, Germany, Poland, Romania and even Spain to a lesser degree are so difficult to ship to. Often with long, protracted and often futile customs checks that make it so hard we actually send to our base in Ireland for forwarding on. More than doubling our own costs in the process which we have to pass on to our clients.
So, where we used to be fast and reasonably priced, we’re now slow and very expensive. We’ve lost clients because of it and I’ve now had to solely focus on accepting UK only based clients which is very sad.
The annoying thing is, our work told us managers not to discuss Brexit at the time and not sway people’s voting intentions in any way. 2 of the guys on my team voted for Brexit and then subsequently left the role when sh*t got real.
Brexit was, predictably, a bit of a fecking disaster. My partner at the time and all her family all voted for Brexit. They were Greek and angry about the EU all the time. I wonder what they all think of it now? Wonder if they rue their decisions?
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That bit is particularly irritating. Don’t like how another country fared so vote to feck another
That bit is particularly irritating. Don’t like how another country fared so vote to feck another
Also all the fecking ex pat Brits that voted Brexit while sitting over in their houses in Spain and France! Beggars belief the stupidity and selfishness of these people. One small victory from it all is the fact it came back to bite a lot of them on the arse with the changes in laws regarding foreign residency in a lot of these countries, which means they were forced to return to the UK that’s now in a much worse state to the one they left all thanks to their vote, oh the irony.
I think that I know what you mean but it is not the laws that have changed but the status of these expats.
Ah, my mistake, cheers for the correction. Anyway, the point I was making was the sheer selfishness and stupidity of these people voting for something which would have such disastrous consequences for a country they don’t even live in anymore while reaping all the benefits of the exact union they voted for Britain to leave in the first place!
Yes dude. It was a difficult time, especially the big family meals, they could get very lively, usually in direct proportion to the amount of red wine that was drunk.That bit is particularly irritating. Don’t like how another country fared so vote to feck another
But that's the thing, many of them don't reap the benefits of the EU because they are not EU citizens anymore. They are foreigners and treated as such which has been received by some as the EU punishing the UK when those laws predate Brexit. That topic is an example of the BS surrounding Brexit, the UK had the opportunity to create similar laws and apply them which is what was told to Cameron when he tried to negotiate a deal for the UK that existed since 2002-2003 for everyone.
Not only the people you are talking about took a selfish decision but they also voted for something that would make them foreigners, all of that because they had no clue about what they were talking about.
I call it the little Englander complex, they think reality doesn't apply to them because they're English
These are the same people that used to go on holiday back in the day, to Spain or wherever, and then moan that the food and beer wasn't like the stuff they got at home
Can imagine!
A side effect of Brexit is that my son has just got an Irish passport to make working in Greece easier. He would likely have previously applied for a UK passport but now it is of no use to him as it no longer provides EU access, and his Irish passport gives him access to the UK as well as the EU.
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In his Sky News interview this morning, Pat McFadden, the shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, said a trade deal could potentially bring big benefits. He said India was about the UK’s 12th biggest trading partner, but that it could be a “huge trading partner”.
Asked whether Labour would be in favour of granting more visas to Indian workers in exchange for trade concessions, he said the party would not rule this out. He replied:
Whether it's the Tories or Labour, they are all completely clueless. Tories don't care and Labour are so wet behind the ears. Making Brexit work!
Asked whether Labour would be in favour of granting more visas to Indian workers in exchange for trade concessions, he said the party would not rule this out. He replied:
Whether it's the Tories or Labour, they are all completely clueless. Tories don't care and Labour are so wet behind the ears. Making Brexit work!
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ermarket-food-in-northern-ireland-brexit-asda
First ‘not for EU’ labels appear on supermarket food in Northern Ireland
Retailers, including the chair of Marks & Spencer, previously attacked the Northern Ireland protocol rules for sending food between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, calling them “highly bureaucratic and pretty pointless”.
He knew what he was voting for when he voted for Brexit
First ‘not for EU’ labels appear on supermarket food in Northern Ireland
Retailers, including the chair of Marks & Spencer, previously attacked the Northern Ireland protocol rules for sending food between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, calling them “highly bureaucratic and pretty pointless”.
He knew what he was voting for when he voted for Brexit
So what should they do?
At the end of the day someone needs to make it work as well as it can work, because it's reality and it's not going away anytime soon
A trade deal worth peanuts with India is not going to help the UK at all. They should stop saying they're going to make Brexit work because it's not possible in any way, shape or form.
If Labour get in at the next GE, Brexit is going to get much worse during their term and there's nothing they can do about it.
So saying that they are going to make it work loses them the next GE in 2029 before they've even started;
Then not much point in winning the election is there?
Everybody needs to vote Tory, then they can 'fix' Brexit.... is that it Paul? You have said yourself even if we went begging bowl in hand the EU would say feck off!
Labour with a sufficiently large majority at the next GE, will start to build the 'new Jerusalem' in a post Brexit Britain... they have no choice!
Don't forget it was a Labour government that after the trauma of WW2, delivered the NHS and Education Acts and change the lives of millions of ordinary folk, they can do it again.
No, it's adopting the completely wrong strategy since 2016 and before. Fence sitters Corbyn and Starmer were so scared of their own shadow. Starmer won't dare do or say anything that may possibly damage the chance of him spending a few years in no.10.
How is Starmer going to build post Brexit Britain when the country and economy is going down the toilet and that will speed up over the coming years.
After WW2 there were means to rebuild the country. What's he going to do, go with a begging bowl round the Commonwealth countries hoping that they will buy things. It's already obvious that is not going to happen and they've got nothing to sell. I say already, it was obvious before the referendum but nobody would listen. They still won't.
Rethink needed.
Do you have any suggestions?
It's already too late for three or four things they should have done but:
Change leader and have someone with guts and personality to get the UK back as close to the EU asap and tell the people the truth that success of Brexit is not possible and show them why it can't possibly work.
It's going to be a long process but not to waste another five or ten years for nothing and make the UK situation even worse just because Starmer wants to be PM for his own benefit and not the benefit of the UK.
Such a person probably couldn't get them elected though, Labour needs to win back a lot of Brexit voters to win a GE, after that shitshow on Question Time in Clacton it's obvious that many are so entrenched that they will not vote for someone proposing what you say is needed, Labour should win in a landslide but I doubt they will
I don't disagree with what you say, but since the 2019 GE there's been no attempt by Labour to try to change people's opinions. People for a while didn't dare mention Brexit and are continually bombarded by Brexit propaganda and lies with no opposition. Labour's ony response is we can do the sh!t slightly better.
The current way it is shaping up, it could result in Starmer getting elected next year . Labour will be destroyed because the country will be in such dire straits when the GE comes up again in 2029 and the Tories will be back in power for another 15 years. Starmer is just short term nothingness.
The Labour party has been 'wandering in the desert' (so to speak) with the wrong strategy ever since Tony Blair's secret/dodgy dossier on arms in Iraq. I would argue even before that in the 1970's and 1980's, but Sir Keir will stop all that, just give him a big enough parliamentary majority after the next GE and watch him go.
Starmer will build a post Brexit Britain because simply he has no choice and everyone knows that now.
to be given that chance Sir Keir has to put forward ideas that will, like the NHS/Education Acts did post WW2 change the lives of millions of ordinary folk and he (as leader), and the Labour party as a party of the people will get one last chance. to turn the tide... out of the ashes of Brexit the Phoenix will rise.
Housing will be a big issue, everyone has a right to have a roof over their head (that doesn't leak) a twenty year programme to build and establish proper living conditions in 'green' type housing, with guaranteed safe water supplies (perhaps a national grid!!)
The poorest and weakest in society will be adequately cared for, the majority have to be not just satisfied with their lot, but very happy with it, because without their support and commitment, nothing will happen, so it's a social contract (now where have we heard that before) that is required first, that involves a continuous improvement commitment in housing, education, employment, water and energy supplies.
Areas were Britain can compete we go in full tilt, those we can't we get out of, food supplies (turnips and all) must be based on our own agricultural capabilities we need 'happy' farmers of all kinds; where we cannot provide ourselves we do 'deals' (of any kind) around the world if necessary and bear the costs/inconvenience associated, without moaning.
We review everything about migration, that rids us, and would be immigrants, of dealing with criminals; but it has to be fair, the rich immigrants as well as the poor have to stand in line. Those with true asylum needs go to the front of the queue, but not necessarily preferential treatment, the country's needs come first, second and third!
Eventually it is likely there will have to be changes to what currently constitutes Britain & NI; with unification in Ireland a real possibility and an Independence for Scotland all being legitimately discussed and considered, including protections for those that don't want change (to be honest not sure how that would work at this stage).
This would all cost money and taxes/codes for everyone even those on benefits (-ve coding) will rise. It will take a long time to fulfill all this, but 'a 1,000 mile journey starts with the first step', (someone once said) and that is what Sir Keir and the Labour Party have to be 'sure-footed' about in their first five year Government, with a good working majority.
The obvious choice is beg the EU to take us back.
The current trend of which ever government in the UK is to destroy British industry, which is and will be the cost of the Brexit because the country has cut itself off from the rest of the world, not just the EU.
The country has to earn money to finance any projects, whatever they are. If they don't earn money there's no money to fund any projects other to vastly increase taxes or borrow heavily.
Immigration is an artificial problem invented by the Tories and supported by Starmer. Immigration will continue to rise exponentially because the current system is designed not to make it work. No legal routes, no staff to process applications and the public are convinced that all the immigrants come on small boats whereas it's a very small percentage.
The immigration policy to only allow skilled labour in higher paid jobs actually creates the obvious effect like in the 60s. British people with skills and qualifications will be competing with immigrants with skills and qualifications. The skilled British people in the 60s left the Uk and went elsewhere.
This leaves the festering problem of who is going to do the menial jobs which are the backbone to the functioning of society. No point growing vegetables if there's nobody to pick them.
Starmer believes all the Brexit media propaganda and is not intelligent or strong enough to stand up to it.
The outcome of Brexit was obvious. The next five/six years are just as easy to predict.
In the end someone has to admit the mistake and stop digging a deeper hole.
The worst of this happened over a period of years, pre,/during Britain's membership of the EU, when the City of London became the centre of Britain's universe
This will happen anyway, that's why a social contract is needed with the British people, in order to enter into this government finance raising with confidence
No, immigration is and will in future become a real problem, its the Tories who are making it 'front and centre' to scare people
We don't have people with the right skills now. The British governments ability to predict skill requirements let alone deficiencies is laughable and has been since the ITB's were defunded and then MSC/ TEC's were allowed to waste monies, trying to keep the unemployment stats down rather than train where necessary. Ironically it was Maggie Thatchers government that tried to reverse things, but other things got in the way!
AI will change some of that otherwise it will be people who cannot do anything else, or deals made for temporary selected labour (might involve immigrants!) from abroad.
Yes if you keep replaying the 'Brexit movie' and expecting the result to change, you yourself Paul have said many times there is no going back, the EU doesn't want us.... even if we went on our knees and dug a hole the right size to boot!
In other words no choice at all. Because you, me and everyone else knows that this is just not going to happen. There will be no begging. The UK will stumble on with essentially a stagnant economy. And those who voted leave will continue to bury their heads in the sand hoping for some kind of miracle which will never materialise while blaming everyone else.