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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
Part of what's going wrong with the UK is down to incompetent politicians across both main parties, an out-of-date parliamentary system, pigs at the trough and on top of it a suicidal Brexit. Don't know what it will take for the electorate to wake up.
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OK Paul, so if I've read your post right, things going wrong with UK are;
a) incompetent politicians
b) out of date parliamentary system
c) 'pigs at the trough'
and (drum roll please.. da.. dah!)
d) a suicidal Brexit (incidentally was their any other type of Brexit option??)

So really Brexit is only a quarter of our problems?... best stay in France Paul, live the good life don't worry about us, we will muddle through. :)
 
Maticmaker said:
OK Paul, so if I've read your post right, things going wrong with UK are;
a) incompetent politicians
b) out of date parliamentary system
c) 'pigs at the trough'
and (drum roll please.. da.. dah!)
d) a suicidal Brexit (incidentally was their any other type of Brexit option??)

So really Brexit is only a quarter of our problems?... best stay in France Paul, live the good life don't worry about us, we will muddle through. :)
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I didn't say each was 25% . The other option was not to leave. Even the most racist, xenophobic, nationalistic numbskulls will not get what they expected to get with Brexit - unless the UK up anchor, have no contact with the outside world and are self-sufficient.

The problem is that things will get worse and the government will double down. Although it does not affect the rest of the world as much it does the UK , it is a problem having a nutcase country just over the water.

Don't worry, I have no intention of ever returning.
 
Eating turnips will help ease the shortages of fruit and vegetables hitting supermarkets across the UK, the environment secretary suggested in the Commons today.
Therese Coffey was questioned by MPs in Parliament today about fruit and vegetable shortages in the UK.
During the session, MP for North Devon Selaine Saxby suggested seasonal eating would solve the shortage of tomatoes and other fruit and vegetables.
Ms Coffey replied: “It’s important to make sure that we cherish the specialisms that we have in this country.
“A lot of people would be eating turnips right now rather than thinking necessarily about aspects of lettuce, and tomatoes and similar but I’m conscious that consumers want a year-round choice and that is what our supermarkets, food producers and growers around the world try to satisfy.”
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Eating turnips will help ease the shortages of fruit and vegetables hitting supermarkets across the UK, the environment secretary suggested in the Commons today.
Therese Coffey was questioned by MPs in Parliament today about fruit and vegetable shortages in the UK.
During the session, MP for North Devon Selaine Saxby suggested seasonal eating would solve the shortage of tomatoes and other fruit and vegetables.
Ms Coffey replied: “It’s important to make sure that we cherish the specialisms that we have in this country.
“A lot of people would be eating turnips right now rather than thinking necessarily about aspects of lettuce, and tomatoes and similar but I’m conscious that consumers want a year-round choice and that is what our supermarkets, food producers and growers around the world try to satisfy.”
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you’re all going to dine on scurvy etc from that great mix of fruit and veg in your new diets.
Turnip soup instead of tomato soup, past sauce made from turnip, a lovely stuffed/toasted turnip, turnip on crusty bread, turnip & cheese, mmm all yummy alternatives. Just change your mindsets and think 1940s you spoilt lot!
oh wait, don’t grow enough turnips??
 
golden_blunder said:
you’re all going to dine on scurvy etc from that great mix of fruit and veg in your new diets.
Turnip soup instead of tomato soup, past sauce made from turnip, a lovely stuffed/toasted turnip, turnip on crusty bread, turnip & cheese, mmm all yummy alternatives. Just change your mindsets and think 1940s you spoilt lot!
oh wait, don’t grow enough turnips??
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I loathe turnips. So I would have to starve.

I'm still in the hope that at some point the people will say, "Alright, enough of the gaslighting and the lies. It's beyond a joke now."

But no, they believe it because they want to believe it. "Please lie to me some more!"
 
golden_blunder said:
you’re all going to dine on scurvy etc from that great mix of fruit and veg in your new diets.
Turnip soup instead of tomato soup, past sauce made from turnip, a lovely stuffed/toasted turnip, turnip on crusty bread, turnip & cheese, mmm all yummy alternatives. Just change your mindsets and think 1940s you spoilt lot!
oh wait, don’t grow enough turnips??
Click to expand...

Turnip mash slaps tbf. Girl is onto something. Until everyone starts eating turnips that is.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I didn't say each was 25% . The other option was not to leave. Even the most racist, xenophobic, nationalistic numbskulls will not get what they expected to get with Brexit - unless the UK up anchor, have no contact with the outside world and are self-sufficient.

The problem is that things will get worse and the government will double down. Although it does not affect the rest of the world as much it does the UK , it is a problem having a nutcase country just over the water.

Don't worry, I have no intention of ever returning.
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No Paul I didn't think for a moment you would.... but perhaps just for a visit, e.g. to OT when United lift the PL title again (not saying when, but keep your passport* up to date)
*That's the new Blue UK one... of course by that time HM Government might not be letting even Ex Pats back :(
 
golden_blunder said:
you’re all going to dine on scurvy etc from that great mix of fruit and veg in your new diets.
Turnip soup instead of tomato soup, past sauce made from turnip, a lovely stuffed/toasted turnip, turnip on crusty bread, turnip & cheese, mmm all yummy alternatives. Just change your mindsets and think 1940s you spoilt lot!
oh wait, don’t grow enough turnips??
Click to expand...

You forgot 'Battered' Turnip with chips, (if we have some potatoes) of course 'deep fried' turnip up in Scotland.
 
Maticmaker said:
You forgot 'Battered' Turnip with chips, (if we have some potatoes) of course 'deep fried' turnip up in Scotland.
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The obvious Scottish one would have been "haggis, neeps and tatties". Preferably battered.
 
Maticmaker said:
Of course Paul, how can it be any different, we all know everything going wrong is down to Brexit... you have told
us so often! :nono: ..;)
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Being facetious would not change that Brexit has a lot to do with a worse UK economy compared to its counterparts. Plain and simple.
 
4bars said:
Being facetious would not change that Brexit has a lot to do with a worse UK economy compared to its counterparts. Plain and simple.
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Brexit has been such a fundamental change for the UK that it is highly likely to have adversely affected almost everything. And not just in a small way.
But we were all warned of that and just over 50% decided that it was so very clever of them to vote to leave without giving it more than a second thought.
Total bravado.
Kamikaze.
Aren't I clever mentality.
Well done Boris for getting Brexit done. But the problem was that he didn't get Brexit done.
Because he totally failed to understand even the most basic nuances about the lies he was peddling.

So here we are. Knee deep in the sh1t and getting deeper.
 
Buster15 said:
Brexit has been such a fundamental change for the UK that it is highly likely to have adversely affected almost everything. And not just in a small way.
But we were all warned of that and just over 50% decided that it was so very clever of them to vote to leave without giving it more than a second thought.
Total bravado.
Kamikaze.
Aren't I clever mentality.
Well done Boris for getting Brexit done. But the problem was that he didn't get Brexit done.
Because he totally failed to understand even the most basic nuances about the lies he was peddling.

So here we are. Knee deep in the sh1t and getting deeper.
Click to expand...

I am all about sovereignty being bad for you or good for you is relative as is not all economics, but is clearly that even quitting the EU, they could have done a much better job. They were too proud and dumb to at least, make it less painful, but nationalism and red tape trumped common sense. You can't put so many limitations to commerce with your neighbour and they want to go even further away to divert from EU standards when other countries they meet this standards to sell into the market. Doesn't make sense. Is not called the Brussels effect for no reason
 
Buster15 said:
Brexit has been such a fundamental change for the UK that it is highly likely to have adversely affected almost everything. And not just in a small way.
But we were all warned of that and just over 50% decided that it was so very clever of them to vote to leave without giving it more than a second thought.
Total bravado.
Kamikaze.
Aren't I clever mentality.
Well done Boris for getting Brexit done. But the problem was that he didn't get Brexit done.
Because he totally failed to understand even the most basic nuances about the lies he was peddling.

So here we are. Knee deep in the sh1t and getting deeper.
Click to expand...

Just over 50% of those that voted, which is what, like 37.4% of the total electorate from my bad maths?
 
Frosty said:
Just over 50% of those that voted, which is what, like 37.4% of the total electorate from my bad maths?
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People say that, which is true mathematically, but I don't think it's just the people who voted who support Brexit. There doesn't seem to be much a change in view and there are even people who are going to make Brexit work even though they said they didn't support it in the first place.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
People say that, which is true mathematically, but I don't think it's just the people who voted who support Brexit. There doesn't seem to be much a change in view and there are even people who are going to make Brexit work even though they said they didn't support it in the first place.
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That’s due to the wonderful FPTP electoral system. Most anti-Brexit voters (probably a clear majority by now) are concentrated in cities, where Labour wins anyway. To win a majority, you have to appeal to small town seats and therefore to humour the knuckledraggers. I don’t believe for one moment Starmer believes he can make Brexit work but, before he can do anything, he needs to get in power.
 
MoskvaRed said:
That’s due to the wonderful FPTP electoral system. Most anti-Brexit voters (probably a clear majority by now) are concentrated in cities, where Labour wins anyway. To win a majority, you have to appeal to small town seats and therefore to humour the knuckledraggers. I don’t believe for one moment Starmer believes he can make Brexit work but, before he can do anything, he needs to get in power.
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The anti-Brexit voters were concentrated in the cities in 2016. There's still probably at least 18 months + before the next GE. A lot is going to happen in that time , and not good, re Brexit.

So if Starmer is going to get into power he has to lie. Then during that five years if he gets in, what's he going to say? I actually can't get Brexit to work so we'll have to start aligning with the EU and having wasted the best part of ten years since leaving trying to enact an impossibility, if we're good boys the EU may let us back in 2060. And at the 2029 GE the Tories get back in.

Alternatively from the day after the referendum there would have been strong opposition, a strong honest personality calling Brexit out and explaining why it could never possibly work. The person may have got a pounding from the media but still trying to pretend it may work all these years later is frankly ridiculous.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The anti-Brexit voters were concentrated in the cities in 2016. There's still probably at least 18 months + before the next GE. A lot is going to happen in that time , and not good, re Brexit.

So if Starmer is going to get into power he has to lie. Then during that five years if he gets in, what's he going to say? I actually can't get Brexit to work so we'll have to start aligning with the EU and having wasted the best part of ten years since leaving trying to enact an impossibility, if we're good boys the EU may let us back in 2060. And at the 2029 GE the Tories get back in.

Alternatively from the day after the referendum there would have been strong opposition, a strong honest personality calling Brexit out and explaining why it could never possibly work. The person may have got a pounding from the media but still trying to pretend it may work all these years later is frankly ridiculous.
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I understand and personally I feel insulted by slogans such as make Brexit work. But…you have to deal with the country as it is, not as you’d like it to be. Voters won’t take kindly to being told they’ve been made a fool of, not when they are exposed to propaganda in the Mail and Express and, sadly, the BBC. Also, Labour would be fighting on Conservative terms as the only card the Tories have left is Brexit. So, to my mind, the best you can do, in the absence of voting reform, is try to undo some of the worst of Brexit while claiming it’s still Brexit (Brexit was never defined anyway). Rejoining the Customs Union would be a start and probably not too toxic given 99% of Brexit voters had never heard of it before 2016 and it’s not linked to immigration. Also, to really undo Brexit, the UK would need to rejoin the Single Market and I don’t see how that is feasible in the next parliamentary term (and much longer in fact). Therefore why raise an issue as a problem when you can’t solve it?
 
MoskvaRed said:
I understand and personally I feel insulted by slogans such as make Brexit work. But…you have to deal with the country as it is, not as you’d like it to be. Voters won’t take kindly to being told they’ve been made a fool of, not when they are exposed to propaganda in the Mail and Express and, sadly, the BBC. Also, Labour would be fighting on Conservative terms as the only card the Tories have left is Brexit. So, to my mind, the best you can do, in the absence of voting reform, is try to undo some of the worst of Brexit while claiming it’s still Brexit (Brexit was never defined anyway). Rejoining the Customs Union would be a start and probably not too toxic given 99% of Brexit voters had never heard of it before 2016 and it’s not linked to immigration. Also, to really undo Brexit, the UK would need to rejoin the Single Market and I don’t see how that is feasible in the next parliamentary term (and much longer in fact). Therefore why raise an issue as a problem when you can’t solve it?
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I get what you're saying and fighting the media is a massive task. Ever since before the referendum, the explanations why Brexit can't work have been very weak. And have continued to be.
The shift has been made to making immigrants the main target now, even more so than with Brexit. How far down that road are they going to go?

With the EU, in my view you're either in or out. Being in the Customs Union means the Uk can't have their own trade deals. So all the glorious trade deals being celebrated ,even though there are only two new ( bad) ones, which would have to be scrapped. This the Brexiters would realise. Then in the Single Market and the Customs Union you're effectively back in the EU; Even getting to that point will take a long time and the longer the farce continues the longer it will before sanity returns.
 
MoskvaRed said:
I understand and personally I feel insulted by slogans such as make Brexit work. But…you have to deal with the country as it is, not as you’d like it to be. Voters won’t take kindly to being told they’ve been made a fool of, not when they are exposed to propaganda in the Mail and Express and, sadly, the BBC. Also, Labour would be fighting on Conservative terms as the only card the Tories have left is Brexit. So, to my mind, the best you can do, in the absence of voting reform, is try to undo some of the worst of Brexit while claiming it’s still Brexit (Brexit was never defined anyway). Rejoining the Customs Union would be a start and probably not too toxic given 99% of Brexit voters had never heard of it before 2016 and it’s not linked to immigration. Also, to really undo Brexit, the UK would need to rejoin the Single Market and I don’t see how that is feasible in the next parliamentary term (and much longer in fact). Therefore why raise an issue as a problem when you can’t solve it?
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Yes. We are where we are. That is the unfortunate reality.
I have no idea how, but we have to find some sort of mechanism to both improve our relationship with the EU as well as maximising our relationship with the RoW in order to get some growth into the economy.
 
4bars said:
Being facetious would not change that Brexit has a lot to do with a worse UK economy compared to its counterparts. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Yes, I may being seemingly facetious, but in my (admittedly small) circle of friends and acquaintances I've not come across one person who has changed their view.
Brexit voters stick to their views and Remain voters to theirs, and it seems both are talking to the back of the others heads, with Brexit voters still on about sovereignty and self determination and Remain voters on about economics and closer political Union.
It would seem like Covid, the war in the Ukraine, energy prices and the threat to zero emissions does not seem to make one iota of difference, they are not even on the same page on Brexit.

As the GE moves into view on the horizon, it seems the PM is looking to make overtures to the EU with discussions about the NI protocol, trying perhaps to distance the Tories from Boris' stance. Also Starmer is seemingly wanting to make Brexit work (somehow!!) and there by appealing to former red wall folk to return to the Labour fold.

Both leaders perhaps recognise that little has changed in the voting public's perceptions but they want to seem like they both can accept that a way forward has to be found post Brexit. That what is done is done and where do we go from here... but without rehearsing all the arguments that large swathes of people cannot even agree exist, or don't care about anymore.
 
You notice in the British press that the NI protocol is big news but barely mentioned outside the Uk and Ireland. I get the impression that something is expected that affects the wider arrangement with the EU.

In reality the EU have offered possible small solutions like as first suggested two years ago that products bound for NI are labelled thus and less controls would be needed on goods destined for NI. Other than that there is little to be changed.

That the DUP and ERG will accept anything is doubtful but at the end of the day the Uk have to implement the NI protocol and refusal to do so will mean court proceedings and in the worse case cancellation of the trade agreement.

Either way it will not ease the paperwork and export/import problems with the rest of the EU. Sorry for the people of Ireland / NI that the DUP and ERG are such goons. The Brexit Bill and if the Uk leave the ECHR will make matters considerably worse of course.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yes, I may being seemingly facetious, but in my (admittedly small) circle of friends and acquaintances I've not come across one person who has changed their view.
Brexit voters stick to their views and Remain voters to theirs, and it seems both are talking to the back of the others heads, with Brexit voters still on about sovereignty and self determination and Remain voters on about economics and closer political Union.
It would seem like Covid, the war in the Ukraine, energy prices and the threat to zero emissions does not seem to make one iota of difference, they are not even on the same page on Brexit.

As the GE moves into view on the horizon, it seems the PM is looking to make overtures to the EU with discussions about the NI protocol, trying perhaps to distance the Tories from Boris' stance. Also Starmer is seemingly wanting to make Brexit work (somehow!!) and there by appealing to former red wall folk to return to the Labour fold.

Both leaders perhaps recognise that little has changed in the voting public's perceptions but they want to seem like they both can accept that a way forward has to be found post Brexit. That what is done is done and where do we go from here... but without rehearsing all the arguments that large swathes of people cannot even agree exist, or don't care about anymore.
Click to expand...

Covid and the war in Ukraine have been used as weapons and propaganda by the UK government - "we're leading the way" nonstop nonsense. It affected everybody and all countries to various degrees. Now the government use it as an excuse for their failures, as they do with the EU and immigrants and so on and so on, always someone else's fault. Now the UK are going to be world leaders in zero emissions and world leaders in growth - and that's Starmer while he's making Brexit work and winning the British GP in a Reliant Robin with no engine.

I don't know anyone who has changed their mind either but has any of your Brexit voter friends pointed out specifically where they have discovered their newfound sovereignty and self determination that they thought they didn't have before Brexit, not forgetting that whatever they complained about was with the agreement of the UK when they were still part of the EU.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Why yawn?
Click to expand...

Paul.
Many of us in the UK fully understand that Brexit was a massive mistake.
And we are well aware that the economy is taking a hit as a consequence.
And I am sure that some people are happy at seeing the British people suffering as a result.
Maybe some of those are living in France.....

But do we need to be reminded of how some places are benefitting at the expense of others.
That is why I posted Yawn.
 
Buster15 said:
Paul.
Many of us in the UK fully understand that Brexit was a massive mistake.
And we are well aware that the economy is taking a hit as a consequence.
And I am sure that some people are happy at seeing the British people suffering as a result.
Maybe some of those are living in France.....

But do we need to be reminded of how some places are benefitting at the expense of others.
That is why I posted Yawn.
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This is the Brexit thread, the result of Brexit. Unfortunately there will be very little good news. At least the EU are benefitting from Brexit, you should be happy.

I'm certainly not going to turn into the brainwashing British media trying to pretend everything will be fine and lying through their teeth. It can't possibly happen.

The only people to blame are the idiots who voted Brexit who turned the UK into competitors of the EU instead of allies and friends who should work together.
Furthermore there's nobody who's prepared to do anything about it.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Covid and the war in Ukraine have been used as weapons and propaganda by the UK government - "we're leading the way" nonstop nonsense. It affected everybody and all countries to various degrees. Now the government use it as an excuse for their failures, as they do with the EU and immigrants and so on and so on, always someone else's fault. Now the UK are going to be world leaders in zero emissions and world leaders in growth - and that's Starmer while he's making Brexit work and winning the British GP in a Reliant Robin with no engine.

I don't know anyone who has changed their mind either but has any of your Brexit voter friends pointed out specifically where they have discovered their newfound sovereignty and self determination that they thought they didn't have before Brexit, not forgetting that whatever they complained about was with the agreement of the UK when they were still part of the EU.
Click to expand...

I get that you don't rate Starmer, or Sunak for that matter.
But at the moment it looks like Labour and Starmer will form the next government.
Politics is cyclic and the Tories have had their chance and completely trashed the UK and so it is time for a change.
Whatever you think about Starmer, he has transformed Labour from a party of protest to be seen as electable.

His 5 missions are all about setting out his stall.
So what would you have preferred he said.
The UK is a busted flush and if you vote for me, I will make that even worse...
 
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