If that is the explanation then it is incredibly vague. The article says the Japan deal has one of the biggest digital chapters or something along those lines, which might simply mean more attention is being paid to the sector; this would make sense in any new deal given how much more salient tech is today. Your assumption, which is surely wrong-headed, is that EU countries won't give it as much salience.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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I haven't read the article yet but this part is not going to be how it plays out I think. One of my wife's nieces is a software developer and works in AI. He's Egyptian, educated in Egypt and currently works for a tech start-up in London. I know the UK had one of the most difficult visa application processes in Europe anyway but his application process was tortuous and his company essentially had to prove that there was both nobody in the UK or the EU who could do the same job first. All in all, I think the company spent about £10k pushing his application through. That would have been the same for an American, Ugandan or Japanese developer.
Last time I was speaking to him, he said there's someone joining the team from a non European country who has gone through a much cheaper and less strenuous process to get the work visa starting next year.
Unless the pound drops significantly in value, I don't think its going to be much more difficult to hire tech talent.
In healthcare on the other hand, where the salaries are not as generous, we're already seeing an exodus of some of our Italian/Spanish/Portugese nurses. Which loses us valuable and excellent colleagues.
The article goes further and says it is the most comprehensive digital chapter in any trade deal in history. Taking the author at his word and considering this trade deal was signed 8 months after the EU - Japan trade deal, doesn’t it actually imply that the UK deal gives more priority to the sector than the EU one?
Here is the point that I'm trying to make and is made by the chief of scottish fishermen's organization:
He told Unearthed: “While it is true that there has been considerable consolidation within the pelagic catching sector over the past 20 years, with a trend towards fewer, more efficient vessels each with a greater concentration of fishing opportunity, the economic reality is that small-scale, inshore fishermen, many of whom are also members of the SFO, do not have the necessary capacity or markets needed to fully utilise the pelagic quotas that are already available to them.”
The deal the UK now have with Japan is less advantageous than the deal the UK had with Japan through EU membership. Unsure why you would cite this example.
Yes, that's my first thought as well. It's going to be more of a hindrance than a boon, at least in terms of hiring foreign talent.
Well I'm sorry to hear about your medical colleagues. The NHS is going to suffer.
Sorry, I think you've misunderstood what I was saying. The company is now finding it much easier (and cheaper) to hire non Europeans than they did previously and that seems to be the case across the tech industry (at least from what he says). The process for hiring a French or Spanish tech worker will be harder than the seamless process of before, the process for an Indian or Egyptian or Chilean or Australian will be easier.
The NHS will certainly suffer. Or what it will need to do is bring in more immigrants from non European countries, who will of course mostly be non-white, which will rankle with the 'vote Brexit for immigration' lot. Which I have to be honest does make me smile.
Well yes and I totally agree with this. There's also a certain degree of nostalgia for a time which is never coming back, EU or no EU.
That isn't to say however that some British fishermen and coastal communities haven't suffered, at least partly, due to the policies of the CFP and how they've allocated the quotas. I don't really see it getting much better for them outside of the EU but then again, I'm not a fisherman so what do I know about their livelihoods.
Just pick up on couple of quick points, there is so much more but for the time being....
Travel: Not mentioned - the UK no longer recognizes the EEA/Swiss ID card so to go to the UK everyone will need a passport, lot of people don't have a passport unless they travel outside the EU and are unlikely to pay for one just to come to the UK. So short weekend in London etc out of the window, tourism industry says thanks.
Goods: The tariff and quota free goods only applies subject to rules of origin and a certain percentage of any goods will have to be of EU or UK origin amongst other things - thus importing cheap materials to produce something for export to the EU is out.
Ahh .. I get what you mean now. If that is true, then like you, we can already foresee what is going to likely happen and the reaction from the pro Brexit immigration lot.
And I take it one step further that this will drive wages down and it becomes a race to the bottom. Which is going to piss off a lot more people.
Regarding tech, can you detail how the author is wrong then relating to this sector then?
I don't think you can conclude that. Perhaps a deal with a bloc cannot have the same level of granularity as one with a single country. It may be that the EU's deal is more high-level, giving member nations more discretion on the details. It could be that the UK deal has a lot of unimportant detail. I think you would have to read* both deals and wait to see how they play out in practice to come to a conclusion.
I won't read them, but I assume the article's author has, though, seemingly, cannot distil what is within that 'comprehensive digital chapter' that advantages the UK.
Thanks for the feedback. Good to at least see different perspectives of how this all might play out.
So is there now a border between NI and Ireland? If not, isn't that some sort of loophole? But if there is a border, does that impact the Good Friday Agreement?
The author is Chairman of the Independent Business Network and a City lawyer specialising in technology and intellectual property, isn't it his job to know what’s in the trade deal?
If you look into the detail and not the obvious pro Brexit bluster bias in the original article you shared. It is a tiny difference in a very specific section of tech regulation. Not mandating disclosure of algorithms for Japanese offshore servers. It is a tiny change in a tiny 0.01% of our GDP.
"The two countries also said that they would not mandate disclosure of source code of their software or algorithms, or share encryption information. This is more liberal than Japan's trade deal with the European Union, under which Japan agreed to not demand source codes or encryption keys but did not do the same for algorithms."
https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/14/uk_and_japan_digital_trade_deal/
As has been pointed out, almost all of the postive stats about the tech sector in the article you shared are despite of Brexit and not because of it. As acknowledged in that very article.
Funnily enough not exactly. Generally lawyers only really know answers to question they face in actual cases and emblematic cases. They don't know entire trade deals or law codes.
No there's no border between NI and Ireland, the border is effectively in the Irish Sea and NI will be in the EU customs union but I see some people think that products can be shipped from the UK mainland to NI and then shipped onto ROI to avoid EU regulations, but it's not the case.
Whilst it may be true the tech industry might benefit in finding it easier to recruit from around the world, overall, is this such an important gain? The core of UK tech relies heavily on proximity to cutting edge research in STEM. Considering the loss to access to joint EU research projects, surely the cutting edge of UK tech will eventually be blunted?
I work in a university and we have always hired from around the world. Whilst we might save a bit of money on hiring costs, we have lost a lot more in terms research capacity, directly in EU research funding and an exodus of top researchers who have relocated their EU funded projects to the EU. The likes of Germany have been actively headhunting UK based academics, and, interestingly, not all of the academics that have left are Europeans; some are Brits. Similarly, China, sensing an opportunity, has also been actively headhunting UK based academics.
If UK government had a joined up strategy for Brexit, they would have figured a way to prevent this loss, long before Brexit occurred. The trouble is they have framed everything in terms of immigration.
I work in a university and we have always hired from around the world. Whilst we might save a bit of money on hiring costs, we have lost a lot more in terms research capacity, directly in EU research funding and an exodus of top researchers who have relocated their EU funded projects to the EU. The likes of Germany have been actively headhunting UK based academics, and, interestingly, not all of the academics that have left are Europeans; some are Brits. Similarly, China, sensing an opportunity, has also been actively headhunting UK based academics.
If UK government had a joined up strategy for Brexit, they would have figured a way to prevent this loss, long before Brexit occurred. The trouble is they have framed everything in terms of immigration.
IINM, border is over the sea between GB and NI with a soft border between NI and Ireland for goods traveling to and fro with rules on tax registrations only.
Yes, it is. So he should be better able to explain how the UK benefits beyond vague terms like 'comprehensive digital chapter'?
The UK tech sector has flourished despite Brexit rather than because of it, I‘ve never argued against that point. We still haven’t actually left the EU properly so it’s what happens from 2021 that matters.
The article does point to ways in which being out of the EU can advantage the sector going forward, however. Firstly through trade deals with leading tech nations that are more sensitive to the UK market needs rather than a compromise to satisfy all the countries in the EU. And through streamlining the churn of legislation designed to advantage the UK market, through international recruitment in the sector among other things.
Personally I’m hoping that the UK can flourish in the Tech sector post-Brexit as it will perhaps be the key industry in the country going forward.
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I’d guess the dry technical details were not desired for the purposes of the article.
In reality, who knows. The great majority just pick up on the latest headlines or sound bites and then assume that they understand.
I am sure that this is not in any way unique to brexiteers or the UK in general.
Can I say that reading most of your and JPR posts has been an education for me.
Real information from people who actually understand the situation. Best wishes for 2021.
Many thanks for that. I like your opinion from your experiences and honesty and JPR is very knowledgeable regarding the more legal points and my many years of experience in international trade and finance/currencies..
My tone can get condescending sometimes but this subject is fascinating and really annoying at times. I can't imagine how annoyed I would be if I still lived in the UK - probably blow a gasket.
This subject has got along way to run when all the theory becomes practice in a week's time. Wish you all the best for 2021.
A lot of people don't have passports?? Are you taking the piss? Maybe people in Chad but in western europe?
Has anyone posted the actual agreement yet? If not, here it is:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...rade_and_Cooperation_Agreement_24.12.2020.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.g...rade_and_Cooperation_Agreement_24.12.2020.pdf
Lots of people don't have passports because they don't need one and don't want to pay for one.
How many and was id ever enough to get into the uk? I think not
What are you trying to ask?
I know that's the case in Europe, but not in the UK. Everyone that travels abroad has a passport.
He asked for western europe but even in the UK the statistic is supposed to be that 75% of the population has a passport. 25% of the population without one is a lot and the UK don't have id cards if I'm not mistaken.
Very few who haven't travelled outside the EU have passports. Why would they spend a €100 or whatever it costs for each member of their family for something they never needed to use.
EU citizens just needed an ID card to get in the UK, not a passport or they did until insanity took over. My UK passport runs out in 5 years time so if I live that long I won't be going to the UK after 2026, everyone cheer, and just about everyone I know around here doesn't have a passport. They had no need.
That's why I specifically made the distinction between Europe and the UK don't you think? Yes, 25% of the population don't have a passport, but note I again specifically said 'Everyone that travels abroad has one'.
British people that want to travel abroad have always got a passport, end of. You are correct in saying we don't have ID cards, which is why joining the EU didn't make any difference in that respect, we just carried on getting passports. Those that wanted to travel abroad that is, many never do.
I'm confused here, the question and the point made was about Western Europe, so I don't really get your point. Did I suggest that it applied to the UK?
Thanks all who answered
Maybe I made the silly mistake of assuming posts in a Brexit thread were somehow relevant to Britain?
And this:
I wasn't actually trying to argue or score points JP, I was just adding information about how we are used to passports, as it is different from the rest of the EU.
I have no problem with you adding information but you phrased it as an opposition which confused me. I was genuinely confused and wasn't sure if you thought that I said something else, then you insisted which confused me even more.
No probs. I enjoy your posts, I've learned a lot from you over the course of all this, but you only hear from me on the bits I might not agree with.
