Maybe the EU are waiting for the U.K. to go first and see if you all start dropping with side effectsBritain famously handling the pandemic better than all the EU countries.
Maybe the EU are waiting for the U.K. to go first and see if you all start dropping with side effectsBritain famously handling the pandemic better than all the EU countries.
Reading the coverage this morning, it seems the outstanding 'level playing field' issues aren't really to do with product standards, but the application of subsidies and how they are regulated. It seems the EU is asking that all EU funding for European business is excluded from state aid restrictions, which the UK is unwilling to agree if their own hands are being somewhat tied. The other issue seems to be whether the UK state aid regulator will need to pre-approve UK subsidies or if it will act in retrospect.
Haha, yeah, that's what I think too. If this were a normal trade negotiation without the baggage and mistrust of recent history, it would be the UK demanding state aid restrictions of the EU, given their large trade surplus and far higher state aid spending (and frequent breaches of existing state aid rules). I mean, EU state aid rules are completely suspended at the moment anyway and all countries are basically underwriting entire industries! It would be crazy if a deal fell apart on this point, but that's Brexit for you.Product standards are part of it but yes the subsidies as the unfair advantage point. It does seem rather a moot point as the UK give much less state aid than France for example but the EU are covering their back for all eventualities and leaving as few loopholes as possible which is more important because they have a competitor right on their doorstep.
Having been involved in thousands of negotiations , on a company level, over the years, both sides agree to whatever they feel will suit their needs. It depends who needs it most. It's not a question of being fair or unfair. One side is not going to give an advantage to the other, the intention is for everyone to be as happy and mutually beneficial as possible. If one side is not happy then there won't be an agreement, simple as.
Haha, yeah, that's what I think too. If this were a normal trade negotiation without the baggage and mistrust of recent history, it would be the UK demanding state aid restrictions of the EU, given their large trade surplus and far higher state aid spending (and frequent breaches of existing state aid rules). I mean, EU state aid rules are completely suspended at the moment anyway and all countries are basically underwriting entire industries! It would be crazy if a deal fell apart on this point, but that's Brexit for you.
That's true. I guess from an EU point of view, there's not much risk of market distorting state aid under the Tories (they're currently letting major retailers, airlines and other businesses collapse one by one without stepping in), but what if a left-wing Labour government was elected in 10 years time and wanted to take a more active role in the economy? They presumably want the tools to prevent the UK heading too far to the left economically.It wouldn't be crazy, you need to keep in mind that a deal is supposed to last decades. These negotiations are supposed to be relevant on the long term, the current climate is irrelevant to it.
That's true. I guess from an EU point of view, there's not much risk of market distorting state aid under the Tories (they're currently letting major retailers and airlines collapse one by one without stepping in), but what if a left-wing Labour government was elected in 10 years time and wanted to take a more active role in the economy? They presumably want the tools to prevent the UK heading too far to the left economically.
I just mean economically left/right in the normal understanding of the words, free-market capitalism (right) vs state-backed industries and intervention in the economy (left).No, they want to protect their backside. It has nothing to do with left or right but simply that companies could try to exploit a particular market with the help of their government, it could easily be done by a tory government that spots a lucrative market. And it's important to point out that this applies to EU member states too, the UK better be smart and don't think that the EU and their members are nice and honest competitors, you need to protect yourselves from the EU too.
I just mean economically left/right in the normal understanding of the words, free-market capitalism (right) vs state-backed industries and intervention in the economy (left).
The scientists have been brilliant everywhere; not so much the politicians. The way the Tories are crowing over here, it is difficult to believe they do not see being first to approve as some kind of arms race.To be fair both countries could be at the top, it's not as if they don't have some of the most brilliant scientists in the world.
This feels like its going down to a penalty shootout.I can just imagine the phone call this afternoon between Boris and the EU Commissioner:
Hello EU, hello EU, This is London calling. This is Boris Johnson, Mayor of London, I mean Prime thingy.
Ah. Hello John Claud. How are you today.
It is Ursula Mr Johnson.
Who?
Ursula.
What happened to John Claud or whatever his name is.
Anyway whatever your name is. What are we supposed to be talking about. Have you put your Christmas tree up yet.....
The scientists have been brilliant everywhere; not so much the politicians. The way the Tories are crowing over here, it is difficult to believe they do not see being first to approve as some kind of arms race.
Will a week or two difference in approving make much difference in the end, anyhow? Could approving so fast even be counterproductive if it reduces trust among the vaccine shy?
Reading the coverage this morning, it seems the outstanding 'level playing field' issues aren't really to do with product standards, but the application of subsidies and how they are regulated. It seems the EU is asking that all EU funding for European business is excluded from state aid restrictions, which the UK is unwilling to agree if their own hands are being somewhat tied. The other issue seems to be whether the UK state aid regulator will need to pre-approve UK subsidies or if it will act in retrospect.
I don't think frost and barnier would have issued a joint statement if they didn't feel a deal was almost certain.. (the blame game would be well and truly underway already)This feels like its going down to a penalty shootout.
I hope BoJo makes such a mess of it that we accidentally agree to rejoin the EU
What time is this phone call with boris and ursula supposed to happen today?
You must try harder... our midfield today isIt's rumoured that talks will be suspended during our game. A CM made up of Fred and McT is simply too creative and classy not to watch. It's the football equivalent of watching michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel with mozart playing music
Its a bit like Rashford being lectured by Jimmy Saville on child safety this state subsidy issue isn't it? I mean the biggest state subsidies are agri/business subsidies and the EU has fought against reforming those for decades.
You must try harder... our midfield today is
....pogba...mctominy... vdb....
Fred's not playing todayIt's rumoured that talks will be suspended during our game. A CM made up of Fred and McT is simply too creative and classy not to watch. It's the football equivalent of watching michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel with mozart playing music
World beating eh?To be fair both countries could be at the top, it's not as if they don't have some of the most brilliant scientists in the world.
That's what Cummings role was at the start of the pandemic, politics over scientific advice, influencing sage meetings. Wouldn't surprise me if they choose a different sociopath to oversee the next stages.One of my kiddos had the same attitude when he once ran across a road without looking - but I didn't get hit so it's okay. He was four at the time though, so not quite sure what other people's excuses are for saying that we should just rush in head first.
Unless this vaccine has gone through the proper process. Maybe it has. I have no faith in this Government putting safety before popularity first, tough, and I'm getting visions of Boris standing in front of experts holding a puppy ransom.
World beating eh?
Maybe best in class. Like our track and trace?
Ha ha! Apologies.Don't be like that.
Like most of us, you have terrible politicians who give a bad name to everyone directly or indirectly linked to them. Now the UK have a lot of extremely competent scientists but these people are seemingly sometimes ignored by politicians when the latters think that they can have some electoral gains if they follow crazy scientists.
And an eerie silence reigned in Brexitthreadland.
Just heard that the Irish PM saying that he is optimistic that a trade deal will be done because it is over 95% agreed.
In that case and assuming that the remaining issues cannot be agreed, is it not possible that a deal can be approved on the basis of the 95%, and the outstanding issues resolved in the new year?
No, it's not possible because in reality the 5% are linked to the 95%. For example, how can you have a deal in place without the governance of said deal legally settled?
In theory governance should be easy to agree if both sides intend to stick to the agreementNo, it's not possible because in reality the 5% are linked to the 95%. For example, how can you have a deal in place without the governance of said deal legally settled?
In theory governance should be easy to agree if both sides intend to stick to the agreement
Provided people just can't make up complaints and put retaliation in place on a whim without a strong case then as it should be a non issue... unless boris and pals intend to shit all over the agreement (which wouldnt shock me)