Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Let’s hope they all turn on each other.
Thanks for that.
But describing a WTO no deal as an Austrialian type deal is inaccurate because while Australia is negotiating a trade deal with the the EU, it already has certain arrangements with the EU that the UK would not have.
It is a philosophical argument I accept.
But another example of Boris not being truthful if I can put it that way.
Brexit has been a lie from start to finish, don't think Brexiters can afford to start telling the truth. The lies will just unravel one by one.
Unfortunately the only way the UK will face up to reality is when it hits them full on next year but a big price will have been paid.
They can blame problems on the pandemic then. Or just stick to blaming the EU. Or knife Boris in the back. There'll never be a day of reckoning
I hope that the EU will insist that the UK enjoys the 'Australian' deal for a long long time. At least up until the Tory party is destroyed and Starmer is in government.
I read those in a trump voice
If Starmer reached a trade deal with the EU, the Right-Wing media would say that he's selling the country down the river, we've become slaves to the EU, floodgates are open for politically correct paedophile immigrants etc.
We all knew this was where all roads leads to. How the Tires have sold this as a victory is outstanding..
The economy should tank big time by that time especially if the EU decides to be uncoperative. There is a risk of UK based airlines not being able to land in the EU, food shortages etc.
The EU has only have to wait up until the country goes into flames. The Tories won't be there for long after that. Then adults will be voted in and voila a deal will be made
They can get away with it simply because there are sufficient haltwits who will swallow it hook line and bullsh1t.
Good article in the FT today about the coming clusterf*ck in trade and the impact on producers on both sides:
EU economy: fear of no-deal Brexit stalks the fields of Flanders
EU economy: fear of no-deal Brexit stalks the fields of Flanders
What would / does a current poll of Brexit taken now say? How would the percentages from the 2016 vote differ?
I still think the odds are in favour of a trade deal as it seems most of the people in this article below think as well
that said it might well be a pretty pants deal but I still stick to my ascertation that there will be bluster aplenty as they find a way of both spinning it as a win and essentially as there isnt time for a full on trade deal things will in the initial period operate mostly as they do now ... longer term I think the UK will find they are holding the shitty end of the stick but thats more down to the fact that we have tried to play negotiations to a domestic audience too much
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...elihood-boris-johnson-eu-summit-b1045775.html
I don't think there's much reliable data. My guess is it would still be too close to call, like the referendum was in 2016.
Doubt there'd be a significant difference unfortunately, considerable portion of the British population are as bad as Trumpites cult when it comes to Tories.
Unless there was a massive push from all angles of the media, people would still vote in droves for Brexit.
That’s mind boggling.
That’s mind boggling.
I guess the recent trade agreements with Mongolia & the Ivory Coast are playing well in that deluded segment of society.
@MikeUpNorth
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls-2/
seems about right(not much data) but based on the polls that have been done ... pretty much still within the margin of error and showing roughly what they were pre referendum
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls-2/
seems about right(not much data) but based on the polls that have been done ... pretty much still within the margin of error and showing roughly what they were pre referendum
That aggregate of the polls ends in February of this year. It would be inconceivable to me that the numbers would be similar if polling were taken recently, but I am just a Yank looking across the pond at the lunacy.
Extract from euref2/poll of polls
Note the series includes both polls that were only conducted in Great Britain and those that were conducted across the United Kingdom as a whole. It also includes both those that asked people how they would vote in response to the question that appeared on the ballot paper in the June 2016 referendum and those that asked a slightly differently worded question **
**I wonder what that question was?
Im not sure... given that the UK has left the EU (we are in the transition arrangement but have left) I guess a polling company may have thought " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" is no longer valid given that UK has already left so any polls after that should either reflect that or perhaps condition it on being a hypothetical situation
Not sure what wording they would use though?
I don't get why no one has started calling it a Soros type deal yet? The pound suffers, Boris' backers get rich, and that's the end of it. Anything else is just a side show. What do Boris and pals care about UK manufacturing, UK trade, border communities or the NHS?
If they cared about any of that they'd know stuff about it, had done stuff for it, would try to improve things. But they just don't care. They care about the one thing they've always cared about; themselves.
If they cared about any of that they'd know stuff about it, had done stuff for it, would try to improve things. But they just don't care. They care about the one thing they've always cared about; themselves.
If you'd spent the last 5 years fervently believing something, arguing for it, and telling all your mates that you were absolutely right, wouldn't you be tempted to grab hold of any messaging that didn't make you look like a total twat when it was all finally proven to have been nonsense?
Exactly, if you want to know if the answers to the original question has changed, you just ask the same question again, not 'roll it up' with some other question...unless of course you are after a particular bias!!
I dont know about that... asking if you would like to remain a member if the EU when you are not a member of the Eu would at best seem a stupid question... and considering the cost of running these polls and the idea being that they give people insight on which to base things would make paying to ask such a stupid question even more stupid as these polls have been conducted for a purpose other than an aggregator to track
Last time I looked we don’t export many things that would survive if they got more dramatically more expensive.
We have manufacturing but we don’t own much of it.
We process precious stones but none are mined here.
We export fossil fuels... but the world is trying to use less of them.
We actually educate some pretty fecking great people that make some really cool shit. But such talent is purchasable. Well educated people will emigrate for better wages and enhanced social conditions. It won’t be instant. We won’t even notice it happening. But in 10-20 years the effect on this country will hit.
Countries in the EU don’t take our goods as it’s the best. They take it because the existing EU trading rules make it financial sensible and socially appealing.
Until the end of this year the UK still gets the benefit of EU membership even though they left at the end of January.
Ask the question this time next year and there might be a significant swing. Provided the electorate were given an intelligence booster.
Of course, but now we've left the only question that could be put is would you have voted differently to last time, and it can only be asked of those who did actually vote.
If that is not the case, then there can be no comparison, because the same conditions do not exist now, the participants are different or would be different now!
Exactly who is being asked this question, is it just those who did vote (whichever way), and/or does it include those who didn't, but wished they had? Those who couldn't vote then, but now can, ex-pats, non-residents, etc.
The problem is to get any handle on whether a change in views a has occurred the only way to do that is to re-run the referendum itself under the same conditions, the change in the question, to reflect the current position, then would be "Should we be a member of the EU or not"?
This poll of polls apparently involves the combination of two different questions, one of which we have no idea of its structure or how it was presented, hence the outcome is therefore somewhat invalid as an indicator.
That part of society doesn't give a rat's ass about trade deals. They may talk of Brexit in terms of money, but the underlying motivator is the idea of Glorious Autonomy (especially on immigration). Also, trade deals and no-deal are too abstract to really influence opinions. Try again in two years though, when the economic impact of the Brexit really starts to be felt.
Our biggest problem is that public opinion is swayed a lot by what people see and hear from their politicians, and for the majority of our press it's right wing or center right. The average person doesn't really hear about the failings of Boris and Co because the Mail are too busy talking about how Corbyn is a socialist (even with Starmer being in charge).
We've gradually but intentionally come to a point where they've won. They control the message and can hand over millions of taxpayer's pounds to their buddies in broad daylight and not even have to answer questions about it - which wouldn't matter anyway because if they did they would just say "that's not true" and get away without even a rebuttal from the media... And EVEN then if there was a rebuttal, the people reading the news won't be interested because they've been distracted by the latest cat videos that pop up in social media (or on the front page of the BBC instead of actual news).
Ugh feck off you old bat. You’re half the reason we have reached this position with your “Brexit means Brexit” bullshit.
This is utterly and depressingly completely true.
Sounds sadly familiar.
Bang on! The media are willingly complicit and the amount of absolutely unbelievable things they can do without a single journalist asking a question is astonishing. There is no accountability anymore and even to things that actually stick they are forgotten in a month (Boris illegally postponing parliament, Russia report, Cummings Dover trip).
And when they realise that immigration won't be "brought under control" either. Speaking of which...
1. Leave EU. Stop freedom of movement from the EU.
2. Redesign new, -universal- immigration policy making changes to the current non-EU immigration policy with the initial aim of reducing net migration to government target of c.100k. Bill is currently pending, presumably awaiting the outcome of Brexit, as already linked earlier.
3. If government do not keep promises on immigration, vote for a party that will.
...in fact, maybe vote for another party anyway
Your observations on this situation seem to be: Don’t bother to vote to leave the EU because nothing will likely be done about immigration by the government anyway.
Voting in a General Election is a leap of faith ultimately. If what you vote for doesn’t transpire, if the party you voted for doesn’t honour their manifesto pledges, you have the freedom to change that vote at the next General Election. Simples.
Unlike referendums?
Here's the latest figures @Strachans Cigar. Same trend nearly 18 months on. EU immigration goes down, while we voluntarily choose to let in even more non-EU immigrants.
Do you think maybe you were lied to about Brexit's role in immigration reform?
Donald Trump's lasting legacy will be showing leaders in western democracies that, if you have the sheer balls to attempt it, you can turn George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four from a stark warning into a strategy guide. Not even David and George would've gone as far as this lot.
I genuinely don’t think Trump wanted to be president or thought that he could be. I think it was a vanity project, so that he could say he ran for president, much like when Katie Price ran as an MP. It all went wrong when he got the nomination, and at that point had to just carry on.
Serco Track and Trace contract as well.
Fox had to resign from his post for bringing a mate with him on government trips. Brown had to grovel and apologize for calling a bigot a "bigot" and it still didn't make a difference. Nowadays those wouldn't even make the first ten pages of a paper and yet they were week long news when they happened.
This was meant to be the Age of Information but in reality it's just the Age of Noise. Bookmark this because I guarantee you that in the next 12 months Boris or another heavily pro Brexit minster will be caught, on audio or camera, saying something like "We knew Brexit would feck over regular folk but I stand to make a killing from it so I let the feckers feck themselves over." And after silence from the press it'll eventually be reported after a week of it being on social media, and the person in question will bare faced lie and say "That wasn't me." And that'll be the end of it, because the Beeb's main headline will be "I Made My Cat Vegan" or "Kardashian injects concrete into her arse".