I'm not name calling. Its what they are
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I'm not name calling. Its what they are
Migration isn't an issue, uncontrolled immigration is, as represented at the referendum. Whichever way you dress it up, this is an issue to the woman/man on the street.
People are allowed to have concerns about immigration without being called xenophobes and racists.
indeed, the whole remain campaign seemed to be about labelling folks as racist, a pretty simple and stupid way of looking at the scenario.
I am sure a fair few % or the leave votes would have been a direct result of such bigoted opinions as @Mozza holds.
Remain voters were not prong to anything, they all took their tine to consider the options
Remain voters had a better overall understanding of what they were voting for. Not saying there were no well informed brexiters but most were sheep.
I've not read Mozza's opinions, but to suggest that it influenced 'a fair few %' is stretching it, you would be talking hundreds of thousands, or millions depending what a fair few % means.
How so?
It wasn't causing harm, even if it was uncontrolled
They are if migration was causing problems, it wasn't so they shouldn't
It was a working class revolt in which people voted purely for a change. All the negative things that were predicted were passed off as scaremongering and surprise surprise, it's all happening. The big red bus with the NHS lie, the empty insinuations on immigration and regaining our sovereignty; People voted for sound bites not policies.
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The remain campaign didn't at all, they provided an economic argument, security argument, and social argument, they lost desipte being on the right side on these issues. The leave camp were the one issue wonders
I don't even know where to start with this, uncontrolled immigration from the EU is an issue. As i see another twelve romanians settle into my workplace with over twenty children that need schooling, I obviously think yep we are fully prepared for this and the millions of others.
You patronise the voting population. What is happening since Brexit?
Yes, all three were flawed
How is there a since Brexit when we haven't left?
indeed
Not really, I think people were right to want a change but were lied to and mislead.
Obviously I was referring to the effects since brexit was announced, no need to be pedantic.
wasn't, my mistake, as someone has pedantically picked me up on lol
Well, yeah, but that's your opinion...and it's evident others who have a problem with immigration don't agree.
And Remainers didn't vote for sound-bites, or untruths from the establishment?
Leave the EU, and you will have no workers' rights or environmental protections. Yes i remember that one.
June 18th - IMF says Brexit would trigger UK recession
July 19th - IMF slashes UK growth forecasts after Brexit - but Britain will still outstrip Germany, France and Italy
Or...
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Of course some did. I'm talking in percentages and would say I much higher percentage of leave voters didn't know the effects of their vote.
Christ
Will any of us for some years to come?
It was somewhat easier for Remainers to know the effects of their vote though wasn't it.....just more of the same or "no change".
12 people working and paying taxes, reads like good news to me
But better than leaves
Their problem is their racism and xenophobia
The newest hard brexit group talked of slashing the burden of redtape imposed by the EU, so yes I'd be worried about your working rights and the environment
Yes.
Well, its clearly what you think they are because that is the easiest way to dismiss them. I wonder whether in fact you have no idea about them or the reasons, right or wrong for the way that they voted.
Personally I agree with you, that as a nation we should have voted to remain but I live in Rotherham and to say immigration has had no detrimental effects and that no one has any legitimate concerns about the issues it raises and the challenges it causes, that's denial.
Your blanket refusal to address the concerns and to castigate those who raise them as racists or xenophobes is why the political establishment can't respond to the challenge. I think people who hold your view are more dangerous than the racists because there will always be stupid racists and as long as we can argue the issues we can resolve them and move on but you and people like you can't argue the issues. You have already decided there aren't any and you are loosing on every front and in every country in the EU.
Carry on and see where it leads.
They should feel lucky to pay taxes in the uk.
How dare they send their kids to schools there?
Each action has an equal reaction and blaming a vulnerable section of the population for political means is dangerous.
The brexiters promised that once out they can cherry pick the deals they want (control over borders, unrestricted access to the single market, little contribution to the eu budget etc). I believe that they will end up with one hell of an egg on the face. In matter of fact Some had already noticed and resigned/applied for a second passport
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How does that respond to @Don't Kill Bill argument? Imo he is spot on.
In total (for the whole country) immigration is a net-positive, but for certain segments of society it is detrimental. It is fairly cynical to tell these people, that they have to shut up and take it, because it is "good for society". By no means does this justify the claims of the Brexit campaign, but it also means, that not everybody who is against immigration, is a racist. The immigrants (except those that are rich) don´t move to (upper) middle class neighbourhoods and compete with engineers or lawyers. They compete with low skilled workers for jobs and move to their areas.
The contempt that is lately shown towards parts of the (low-income)middle and working-class, because they don´t vote like the mainstream likes it, is quite mindboggling. I kind of expect that from conservatives, but not from the center-left......It pushes them toward extremists on both sides of the spectrum.
In total (for the whole country) immigration is a net-positive, but for certain segments of society it is detrimental. It is fairly cynical to tell these people, that they have to shut up and take it, because it is "good for society". By no means does this justify the claims of the Brexit campaign, but it also means, that not everybody who is against immigration, is a racist. The immigrants (except those that are rich) don´t move to (upper) middle class neighbourhoods and compete with engineers or lawyers. They compete with low skilled workers for jobs and move to their areas.
The contempt that is lately shown towards parts of the (low-income)middle and working-class, because they don´t vote like the mainstream likes it, is quite mindboggling. I kind of expect that from conservatives, but not from the center-left......It pushes them toward extremists on both sides of the spectrum.
Thing is though it wasn't just those areas that voted to leave. The highest Leave vote was Boston who have legitimate reasons to have problems with immigration but thats an exception to the general rule which was middle-class, rural and suburban England carrying the vote. Even working class areas that voted out (such as the North East and South Wales) are the working class areas with the lowest levels of immigration.
So, whilst its obviously not correct to say that nobody had legitimate fears in regards to immigration, to deny that xenophobia and racism had any role whatsoever (consciously or subconsciously) is as equally incorrect. And tbh the fact that the country has had unashamedly racist propaganda blasted at it from the Daily Mail on a, well, daily basis makes that unsurprising.
That's quite patronising since immigrants tend to be quite diverse in terms of skill. Most immigrants I know are highly skilled. The NHS would collapse without foreign immigrants . I think it's more the case of a big sector of society (most working class) are more gullible (mainly due to lack of academic experience in analysing an argument from many points of views) and easier to sway with lies then others. Politicians had created this big monster by blaming everything on the eu only to end up being swept aside when it went out of control
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Except it was just such a mindset which held sway among the centre-left during the late-90s and early 2000s, which led to the rise of the BNP. And people who would compare UKIP to the FN, or the British National Front of the 80s, have short memories indeed. Griffin would speak openly about the notion of mass deportations, whereas Farage and co have their roots in economic differences/Euroscepticism.
I would also argue, that the indifference of Westminster has fostered a blurring of the lines between asylum seekers and economic migrants. If we'd had a more sensible debate during the previous decade or so, the prospect of assisting Yazidis or children would have been but a formality.
Nigel "migrants clogging up the M25" is a massive race baiter.
I have no doubt that racism played a huge part. In fact I´d say that xenophobia was one of the main reasons for this result. But the question should be, why so many people are starting to express these views lately. I am not trying to defend racism, but to explain/understand it. If your analysis stops with "they are deplorable racist dicks", your only response will be name-calling, which won´t solve anything. In fact it makes things worse, because it further alienates these people and shuts down any debate.
There are many reasons for xenophobia. I think that uncertainty about the economic future and fear of social decline are the driving force (obviously there are also many other causes). If you look at polls and election results somewhere between 20%-40% of the people might be in danger to go down the road of supporting (one way or the other) racists views. These are simply too many people to tell them to feck-off. The first step has to be, that the dialogue about immigration has to change.
Farage was increasingly prepared to be cynical when it came to playing on those fears, i do not deny, and pursued that ludicrous argument about AIDS during the GE debates, but Nick Griffin he is not. This is a good thing though, as heretofore the UK electorate poor ground for such brazen types as Jean-Marie Le Penn.