If labour could get all its MP's to vote for it and all the other parties would have they would have needed 2 conservativesThat would have literally made no difference. It was never going to pass. The Lib Dems knew that and it was purely a tactic to get one over on Labour.
If labour could get all its MP's to vote for it and all the other parties would have they would have needed 2 conservatives
pretty much the same maths as now
Boris has done noting unexpected - anybody who was prepared to vote against him now probably was then as well
Corbyn has a hard on for brexit - its fair enough i he should just be honest about it - you know straight talking politics and all that
I wonder what he plans to do about the handball rule.
Farage to decide he fancies being king and to take on the Tories on a platform of ceasing all trade with countries that don't speak English as a first language.Gut feel I have then is
Labour refuses to join the remain alliance
Brexit party stands down if conservatives deselect a hit list of remoaners
Conservatives win majority
Labour secure less seats than remain alliance
Does that sound about right to anybody else
I'm not sure how quickly the Tory rules allow them to deselect a load of their candidates, against legal challenges too no doubt. I suppose the Brexit party could create a hit list of their own and stand just against them however.Timeline?
Aug 21-24... Bang on about removing backstop
Aug 24-27... G7 summit ... Showpiece row with merkle and macron whilst getting trump to make some vague promice of a quick trade deal
Aug 28-30... Whip up EU hatred... Talk about no deal now being almost certain and blame EU... Talk about remoaner parliament blocking no deal
Aug 31 / SEP 1... give farrage a backhander to step the brexit party down and hit the media all weekend about remoners and the EU trying to trap us
Sep 2... Big Boris speach announcing that the first thing in parliament will be a vote on a ge so the country can stick 2 fingers up to the EU and remoaners (plus stops Corbyn calling for a confidence motion on 3rd)
Gut feel call the election on 30th October ... That way it's basically leave Vs remain and makes any hung parliament negotiations between remain parties virtually impossible by 31st
Gut feel I have then is
Labour refuses to join the remain alliance
Brexit party stands down if conservatives deselect a hit list of remoaners
Conservatives win majority
Labour secure less seats than remain alliance
Does that sound about right to anybody else
It would be completely crazy now to call an election before the 31st of Oct, parliament needs to put all its energy in sorting Brexit out. The last thing that’s needed right now is a general election.
So, Merkel gives BoJo 30 days to come up with a detailed, workable and acceptable alternative to the back stop. They have spent the past 2 years trying to come up with a solution so I won’t hold my breathe. Let’s hope I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
The EU floated this idea in February last year and would surely agree to it now.
I believe this was actually their preference...
May said it was unacceptable to split the uk and sent David Davies to negotiate the uk wide backstop
Exactly this.'If' these things which were not possible at the time didn't exist then Corbyn could have passed a motion of no confidence. Right. Got ya. You know full well it would not have passed. It's funny how Corbyn's critics love deriding him as incompetent and an awful leader etc but seem to also believe that he's some kind of political mastermind with a magic wand that could stop Brexit at any moment. Make your mind up, please.
General Election in the autumn, kick out the DUP, agree a WA with alternative arrangements around the backstop - a border in the Irish Sea instead.
The EU floated this idea in February last year and would surely agree to it now.
A hard border between NI and the U.K. instead?!
Actually, Ireland should be united anyway. In fact let’s get rid of countries altogether. Nothing good has ever come from nationalism.
We’re the electorate told that the U.K. would break up if they left the EU during the referendum campaign?
We’re the electorate told that the U.K. would break up if they left the EU during the referendum campaign?
We’re the electorate told that the U.K. would break up if they left the EU during the referendum campaign?
We were repeatedly warned by commentators and the Remain campaign that the Irish border would be a significant issue that would likely prove extremely difficult to overcome. I recall Tony Blair, for example, spelling this out ad nauseum in TV interviews. Nobody can say they didn't know what they were voting for in this respect.
A united Ireland and an Independent Scotland will probably, ultimately, be byproducts of this ludicrous, Tory project. The Conservative and Unionist Party...
We were repeatedly warned by commentators and the Remain campaign that the Irish border would be a significant issue that would likely prove extremely difficult to overcome. I recall Tony Blair, for example, spelling this out ad nauseum in TV interviews. Nobody can say they didn't know what they were voting for in this respect.
A united Ireland and an Independent Scotland will probably, ultimately, be byproducts of this ludicrous, Tory project. The Conservative and Unionist Party...
Yes and everyone dismissed these arguments as project fear.We were repeatedly warned by commentators and the Remain campaign that the Irish border would be a significant issue that would likely prove extremely difficult to overcome. I recall Tony Blair, for example, spelling this out ad nauseum in TV interviews. Nobody can say they didn't know what they were voting for in this respect.
A united Ireland and an Independent Scotland will probably, ultimately, be byproducts of this ludicrous, Tory project. The Conservative and Unionist Party...
I don't think we will ever see a "United Ireland", but yeah, I think an independent Scotland could happen.
We know.During the leadership campaign BoJo was claiming the atmosphere had change within EU and that the EU was willing to negotiate the Irish backstop. Now BoJo is claiming that the EU is unwilling to renegotiate because of Tory remainers trying to stop a hard Brexit. Further, BoJo accuses the EU of playing hardball. This from the man threatening not to pay the 36billion divorce bill as part of his negotiation tactics.
BoJo is a bullshitter who’s completely out of his dept.
We were repeatedly warned by commentators and the Remain campaign that the Irish border would be a significant issue that would likely prove extremely difficult to overcome. I recall Tony Blair, for example, spelling this out ad nauseum in TV interviews. Nobody can say they didn't know what they were voting for in this respect.
A united Ireland and an Independent Scotland will probably, ultimately, be byproducts of this ludicrous, Tory project. The Conservative and Unionist Party...
if you think brexit is a mess, wait til you see what that's like. I doubt it'll even be entertained for a long, long time.A United Ireland is undoubtably much, much closer to reality now than anytime in my lifetime - this is 100% as a direct result of this Brexit mess. If a no-deal Brexit really does happen then a United Ireland is very likely to happen in the next 10-15 years.
if you think brexit is a mess, wait til you see what that's like. I doubt it'll even be entertained for a long, long time.
the UK would need to agree to continue to support and subsidize NI for decades until they become self sustainable and non reliant on them, a big ask of the UK who will likely be in the shitter themselves. Ireland wouldn't be able to flat out absorb NI, we can't deal with the financial burden you'd place on us.I don't doubt that but I think there is likely to be a border poll which will be successful within that time-frame then there will be possibly decades of a transition period before it is formally a United Ireland - but I think that the vote will go through within 10-15 years. Hope that makes sense.
the UK would need to agree to continue to support and subsidize NI for decades until they become self sustainable and non reliant on them, a big ask of the UK who will likely be in the shitter themselves. Ireland wouldn't be able to flat out absorb NI, we can't deal with the financial burden you'd place on us.
I think NI would need to become a self sustaining independent state (in the EU) before a United Ireland would be feasible, basically.
To be fair I don't think this is true - I obviously paid particular attention to the border issue prior to the Brexit vote and I can't remember Northern Ireland being mentioned at all by anybody (Blair might have mentioned it but I dont think anybody else did) - the fact is that sadly very few English politicians (or English people for that matter) gave Ireland or Northern Ireland much of a thought at all or if they did they did in complete ignorance of the issues.
It's certainly true to say that the Remain Campaign focused primarily on convincing swing voters of a narrow proposition: that leaving the EU was too economically risky (this was the same approach that had been adopted successfully in the 2014 Scottish Referendum and 2015 UK General Election and was, in fairness, a rational response to the polling data at the time).
However, I don't believe the Irish issue was neglected quite as much as you suggest (perhaps I'm simply misremembering here). A quick news search returns Theresa May asserting the inevitability of Irish border controls in the event of a Leave vote and Former Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Mandelson warning of "renewed sectarianism", risking jobs and the entire NI peace process.
I am sure that you probably do recall the joint press conference between Tony Blair and John Major in Derry, which definitely achieved widespread media coverage for its symbolic significance. During it, Major warned, "the plain, uncomfortable truth is that the unity of the UK itself is on the ballot paper in two weeks’ time."
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nd-john-major-brexit-would-close-irish-border
These issues should have been given much more prominence than they were, of course, but anyone who claims they genuinely had no idea that the Irish border would be a huge problem if we voted Leave, simply wasn't paying attention.
Remain didn't convince anyone, of anything. It was a textbook example of how not to campaign, the official and other variations of the remain vote.
They focussed entirely on negatives and none of the positive reasons we should remain in the EU.
The public, in record breaking numbers dismissed their campaign.
Since the result they've got even worse. Learned nothing from their mistakes and decided an aggressive hate filled mantra is sure to swing public opinion. It hasn't, at all.
So no, remain didn't convince anyone of anything. In reality they turned people away from their POV and continue to do so, to this day.
Well thats good to see that it perhaps wasn't as neglected as I'd thought - although this does make the vote to leave even more depressing.
We can legally deplete all of our fuel reserves by a half when we shake off that EU yoke, according to widespread reports yesterday/today.The Remain campaign was poor but they did point out the positives.
However, I don't remember any positives that the Leave campaign pointed out and l have no idea what vision Leave have of the future after Brexit.
The Remain campaign was poor but they did point out the positives.
However, I don't remember any positives that the Leave campaign pointed out and l have no idea what vision Leave have of the future after Brexit.
Remain didn't convince anyone, of anything. It was a textbook example of how not to campaign, the official and other variations of the remain vote.
They focussed entirely on negatives and none of the positive reasons we should remain in the EU.
The public, in record breaking numbers dismissed their campaign.
Since the result they've got even worse. Learned nothing from their mistakes and decided an aggressive hate filled mantra is sure to swing public opinion. It hasn't, at all.
So no, remain didn't convince anyone of anything. In reality they turned people away from their POV and continue to do so, to this day.
No, they didn't. Their entire campaign was about negatives. You do not campaign about a negative. Ask the May government who's negative campaign against Corbyn gave that useless fool a far better result than anyone could have predicted.
The Leave campaign focussed on what the UK could do outside of the EU. Emphasised control of our destiny. Whether or not this was achievable or practical was besides the point, more so because they were not the government in charge (who were aligned with remain) and therefore were not in a position to implement any of their claims, anyway. They relied on the UK government.
