Conversely you could argue that most remain voters take their cues straight from the Guardian. So if the Guardian tells them to remain they lap it up even if it only serves the money making elite and there own elitist agenda .......(And my words are as damn stupid as yours) .... difference is I know I am talking out of my backside....how about you?.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Conversely you could argue that most remain voters take their cues straight from the Guardian. So if the Guardian tells them to remain they lap it up even if it only serves the money making elite and there own elitist agenda .......(And my words are as damn stupid as yours) .... difference is I know I am talking out of my backside....how about you?.
Agreed.
And therein lies the problem. Millions have fought and perished in the name of democracy.
And yet, a proportion of the electorate, when given the 'once in a lifetime' referendum don't even bother to try to understand the facts.
Wait...
What am I saying. Lots of our politicians don't even seem to understand the facts.
Democracy eh. Bloody hell....
Personally I don't read the Guardian. I couldn't tell you what any of their cues are.
Being happy being a part of the EU is all down to my own experiences:
The company I work for sells 90% of it's products to other countries inside the EU and only 10% locally. I don't want a barrier between my company and our customers.
I travel all over Europe multiple times every year. I don't want any barrier between myself and my many vacations.
My rights at work are set out by the ECHR I don't want any reduction in those rights.
Now these might be the cues that I set out in the Guardian but as I have said I don't know as I have never read it.
I Know we are in quite a position. This is a portion of our history that historian will look back at and frown.
What I find mind boggling is that people are not united in blaming the Tories for the referendum in the first place.
To distract everyone from the fact they were gutting the welfare state, Balancing the budget on the back of the poor.
Somehow those who voted leave are to blame.
To distract everyone from the fact they were gutting the welfare state, Balancing the budget on the back of the poor.
Somehow those who voted leave are to blame.
I don't blame the people who voted leave. I think they have been lied to from the get go.
It all lays squarely on the Tories. They won the election on the back of a referendum. They held the referendum making it winner takes all when previous referendums have needed a two thirds majority to change the status quo.
They then went into the negotiations only listening to the views of their own party. Even so they could get their party to agree on deal that was made.
May decides to ask other parties for their input and is ousted by her own party.
We get Boris and he says that he wont negotiate unless the EU break the GFA. That is going to get the EU on side to make a deal.
Pretending that they were trying to balance the books. In truth they never got even remotely close and have now forgotten all about that pledge.
It's proper term is smoke and mirrors.
The ECHR is part of the Council of Europe, they are safe even if you are outside the EU.
And that is fine and perfectly understandable and acceptable. Then again please have the courtesy to acknowledge that some of those who voted for Brexit did so with the same mercenary attitude as yourself.....i.e. what was in their own perceived best interest and nowt at all to do with the common good. Unless of course you really do believe that everyone has benefited from our membership of the EU. That some communities have not lost out for the 'greater good' and that for some people the idea of having the ability or skills to avail themselves of the opportunities offered by EU citizenship will never materialise.
Otherwise your argument saying that the reason Brexiteers give for wanting to leave are taken straight from the Sun and the Mail are as valid as me opinionating that a good deal of what you are concerned about is having decent vacations at the expense of those less fortunate which would indeed be as offensive and as wide of the mark as your own assertion.
I simply wish that it was acknowledged that those on the opposite side of the argument to ourselves have often as legitimate a point of view if only we took the time to listen. Trouble is we adopt two of the three wise monkey attributes ..... see and hear no evil ....... against our certainty. The third attribute 'speak' no evil we totally ignore when it is at odds with our own point of view.
Cameron put the referendum in his manifesto partly because there was a large Brexit group of Tory MPs threatening his position as leader of the party, and partly because the Brexit party itself were then gaining so many votes from the Tories that he couldn't see winning the election without shooting their fox, so to speak. He assumed he would win the referendum and thought he was being quite clever killing two birds with one stone.
But yes, I very much blame the Tories for the referendum, and since, but also blame Labour nearly as much for standing on a Brexit manifesto in the two elections since.
We’re still going over old ground and regurgitating the blame game. Now BoJo is trying to play hardball in something that is 0% chance of being removed. We’re going to be debating this never ending shite for decades
Why on earth would Ireland as the EU to do that? Just because the UK is prepared to feck up the peace process doesn't mean Ireland should shrug its shoulders and forget about it.
Long but absolutely on the money thread about the issues surrounding the border.
Particularly this
The open border is/was absolutely fundamental for nationalists getting behind the GFA as it reinforced the idea that they were allowed to be Irish within a Northern Ireland still part of the UK. I don't think enough commentators or politicians in GB fully grasp how critical this is particularly to border communities which are predominantly nationalist.
Particularly this
The open border is/was absolutely fundamental for nationalists getting behind the GFA as it reinforced the idea that they were allowed to be Irish within a Northern Ireland still part of the UK. I don't think enough commentators or politicians in GB fully grasp how critical this is particularly to border communities which are predominantly nationalist.
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It's almost like politicians in England don't actually give a single toss about Ireland and whether there is peace or not... Either that or they are so bloody thick they can't understand why Ireland might not be willing to destroy the peace treaty. The mind really does boggle.
Sadly we will be hearing about BREXIT and the fall-out from all this crap for the rest of our lives.
BoJo and his lot don’t give a shit as long as they get what they want.
Coward
He did the same in Wales.
Yeah right now it's all about the appearance of doing stuff without any substance or progress at all. This I fear will be exactly how it will continue to be until the bitter end when he is forced to address the issues.
It’s the way he has always dealt with anything challenging; bluster, bullshit and ideally ignore and hope it goes away. Classic entitled behavior from someone who’s never had to work for anything in his life.
I'm sick of the sight of him pretending to be a construction worker, shepherd, U-boat captain etc etc while on his 'Let's Bluster Brexit Through' tour.
At this rate every time he goes onscreen and says....brexit....no deal...spirit of optimism.....patriotism....doom-mongers......naysayers etc, the city absolutely tanks the pound. By the time Parliament sits in September he will have totally destroyed the UK economy and he will be out on his arse by a coalition of members of his own party, sensible MPs and the house of Lords when he tries something desperate to make "No Deal" happen.
He is trying to make the most of his "Honeymoon period" but in reality is getting nowhere fast, like a drunk groom with brewers droop trying to thumb it in on his wedding night.
I’m still fascinated about what Ireland would do about the border in the event of no-deal Brexit. Obviously the UK will just carry on letting goods flow inwards with no tariffs or checks (probably unilaterally cutting all import tariffs to zero for any nation, not just the EU), but would Ireland really be willing/able to enforce what should now theoretically be a hard border under EU rules?
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Pretty accurate assessment.
You will also note that he will never make a definitive statement. That way he can never be proven wrong. And in the event that he is he will smile, make an awfully witty joke and move on to the next catastrophe.
And that folks is termed 'Leadership' or at least the Boris version of it.
Takes real high class education to get away with that.
As far as Ireland and Northern Ireland and Wales are concerned, he has sorted it all out.
A quick visit, play with a few hens, bullshit the farmers, tell any fool who will listen that it will be alright on the night.
Done. Sorted.
Now. What is next...
Go to Brussels. Pat Michel Barnier and the rest of the EU negotiators on the head. Tell them a few witty jokes. Promise it will be alright on the night and move on.
Easy peesy.
Nothing to this PM stuff.
Now. What is next. Fix climate change. No. Far too easy and anyway my best new friend Don T tells me it is all a load of rubbish anyway.
Yes they would. There simply will have to be some sort of checking at the border.
If you listen carefully to what Boris is saying 'The UK will never put up a hard border in Ireland' as an example - what he is saying is that when a hard border goes up we will blame the EU for and say it was THEM THAT DONE IT not us.
Yeah, no. Cutting all import tariffs unilaterally for any nation would be destructive for businesses and will force them to move. Imagine you're in manufacturing (say car maker) and all goods come into the UK for free but need to pay a tariff to leave. People who buy your car in the continent would have to pay import tariffs while your continental competitors can export to your market (UK) without tariffs. Asymmetrical trade. Why wouldn't you move the production to the Continent? It's simply not sustainable beyond a couple of months to avert the sheer panic, after which businesses will start making contingency plans.
Ireland would have to put up border checks on EU order or find itself in a backstop situation, to ensure UK goods don't sneak into the single market without checks and tariffs being paid. But eventually both sides will want to have border checks to get control of their borders.
I'm sick of the sight of him pretending to be a construction worker, shepherd, U-boat captain etc etc while on his 'Let's Bluster Brexit Through' tour.
Reminded me of this:
Edit: These are famous images, you bastards!
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If it plays out in such a way that the Irish government ends up being legally required to enforce a hard border then there's not that much they can do about it, though I'm sure they'll take whatever technical measures they can to reduce the physical and political impact.
The UK would be viciously blamed though. Anglo-Irish relations are (politically) already at the lowest they've been in decades. Being forced into a hard border situation would absolutely torpedo them in a way that would take generations to rebuild.
Also, it's important to remember that the Irish state gave up its claim to the whole island of Ireland as part of the GFA. If the UK was to then unilaterally undermine the GFA a surge in Irish nationalism would be inevitable. You would see an increasingly dramatic push in favour of a United Ireland across all Irish political parties, with all the consequences that would entail. That's just thinking of the more moderate parties, let alone Sinn Fein who would presumably enter some form of rabid apoplexy.
And for what? The UK would be forced to submit to the same backstop terms anyway if they want a trade deal with the EU and (according to Nacy Pelosi) would also see a trade deal with the US get rejected by congress. So I'm not sure what the UK would do in that scenario, let alone Ireland.
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Nationalism is a cancer.
Ah come on now, its not like we have anything better to spend £2b on in the UK.
Why was not on the side of the bus?
Leave the EU and we will ensure you still have some medicine, the important ones anyway
Leave the EU and we will ensure you still have some medicine, the important ones anyway
Now approx £6B will be spent on this shit, which could have been spent on something useful.
'To help ensure continuity of vital medicines.'
Perks like this are starting to win me over to no-deal Brexit.
Truly the party of stability.
I would like to know what mental image they have of the UK after it has left the EU and what will be better. There will be plenty of things that will be a lot worse.
Blue passports.