Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Anyone else starting to get the ominous feeling that shits about to hit the fan?

In a way Boris might be better for the remain cause because his blatant bullshit is causing friction and stronger opposition. He's touring the country spouting bullshit and generally pissing people off.
 
711 said:
Thanks. I think most English people would say they have no interest in the empire whatsoever in 2019 so I don't get 'bullying', but the empire did obviously create the current situation so I understand you feeling that way.
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I'd say those are blatant liars, then. Yearning for the good ol' times of the Empire has been and is one the main drivers for the leave crowd.
 
711 said:
Thanks. I think most English people would say they have no interest in the empire whatsoever in 2019 so I don't get 'bullying', but the empire did obviously create the current situation so I understand you feeling that way.
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Scotland, by and large, has the same feeling about England. Without derailing the topic, theres a very real sense of bullying when it comes to UK politics.
 
Smores said:
Anyone else starting to get the ominous feeling that shits about to hit the fan?

In a way Boris might be better for the remain cause because his blatant bullshit is causing friction and stronger opposition. He's touring the country spouting bullshit and generally pissing people off.
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Not really. Who is he pissing off except for folks that already hate him? He's got a 6 point boost in the polls in Wales. It's all fluff at the moment.

2ndTouch said:
"Taking back control", "Sovereignty, "Commonwealth", just to name a few of the frequently used terms. But yeah, laugh on...
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Only one of those has connotations of the Empire really and its a pretty logical step to move towards closer cooperation and trade with commonwealth nations if we leave the EU.

That said, I do feel that some on the right are guilty of what you say, especially among the less intelligent factions.
 
I heard an interview with Boris on BBC Radio yesterday and it was really poor stuff. Purposely ambiguous but with no attempt to hide it. Spoke for 30 seconds at a time and said absolutely nothing in the entire interview. I was laughing by the end of it that we'd come away knowing nothing about anything yet he's being so wildly celebrated in some circles.
 
2ndTouch said:
I'd say those are blatant liars, then. Yearning for the good ol' times of the Empire has been and is one the main drivers for the leave crowd.
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I appreciate much of the world thinks that. They're wrong, however many photos of far right wankers you can find, and how ever many empire days tv serials, the average Joe Bloggs sees the empire as history, just history. Unfortunately some Leave campaigners have been counterproductive in many ways, their 'racist, stupid, northern, empire-lover' shite will have cost Remain a lot of votes if it comes to it.


Reddy Rederson said:
Scotland, by and large, has the same feeling about England. Without derailing the topic, theres a very real sense of bullying when it comes to UK politics.
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Yeah, I get that, and the Irish view too, I was only giving England's :) With my original Irish question I wasn't seeing that as bullying at all, I just saw the Irish as having a genuine choice, and that seems to have been answered.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Not really. Who is he pissing off except for folks that already hate him? He's got a 6 point boost in the polls in Wales. It's all fluff at the moment.
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Yeah but that happens it won't last. He's pissing off nearly every industry with his no deal doctrine and when they start to make moves to oppose Boris the public will follow.

Not to mention he's losing control of his own party and they'll stab him in the back when they get a chance.
 
711 said:
Thanks. I think most English people would say they have no interest in the empire whatsoever in 2019 so I don't get 'bullying', but the empire did obviously create the current situation so I understand you feeling that way.
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I disagree - most people probably don't think of it in those terms or think about 'the Empire' directly however it undoubtably is in the national psyche with an inherant belief that England is more important than most other countries around the world (including the other parts of the UK) - on par with America - and as such should be able to just wait for the EU to bow to their demands for no reason other than 'they can't do without us'. This belief also transfers onto the backstop and the expectation that Ireland/EU should now just bow to UK demands about it being removed entirely. It's just plain arrogance from English politicians.

Obviously I'm not saying most people in England think like this - clearly they do not - but some undoubtably do (there are plenty of videos of people saying pretty much this) and unfortunately most of the ruling class are very much in the 'Rule Brittania' mold and are heavily influenced by Empire, History and their perceived place in the world.
 
@711

Three points regarding what the Irish government would/should do:

1) In the event of a no deal, the vast majority of the blame in Ireland will be levelled at the UK.
2) Damaging though a no deal would be for the current Irish government, backing down would also be damaging politically.
3) The EU have already indicated that, in the event of a no deal, resolving the backstop issue will be a prequisite of any trade negotiations beginning. Talks in which the UK would have less leverage than they currently do.

Given all of that, sticking the course the course would seem the most likely option. If a no deal happens the UK government will be blamed and the same issues will simply continue over to the trade negotiations. Which means their current approach remains the most likely to get the result they want. In fact there isn't really another viable course to get what they want far as I can see.
 
balaks said:
I disagree - most people probably don't think of it in those terms or think about 'the Empire' directly however it undoubtably is in the national psyche with an inherant belief that England is more important than most other countries around the world (including the other parts of the UK) - on par with America - and as such should be able to just wait for the EU to bow to their demands for no reason other than 'they can't do without us'. This belief also transfers onto the backstop and the expectation that Ireland/EU should now just bow to UK demands about it being removed entirely. It's just plain arrogance from English politicians.

Obviously I'm not saying most people in England think like this - clearly they do not - but some undoubtably do (there are plenty of videos of people saying pretty much this) and unfortunately most of the ruling class are very much in the 'Rule Brittania' mold and are heavily influenced by Empire, History and their perceived place in the world.
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Aye. One of the most obvious lessons of the whole Brexit debacle is that there is very much a sense of British exceptionalism among the UK's political class.
 
sullydnl said:
@711

Three points regarding what the Irish government would/should do:

1) In the event of a no deal, the vast majority of the blame in Ireland will be levelled at the UK.
2) Damaging though a no deal would be for the current Irish government, backing down would also be damaging politically.
3) The EU have already indicated that, in the event of a no deal, resolving the backstop issue will be a prequisite of any trade negotiations beginning. Talks in which the UK would have less leverage than they currently do.

Given all of that, sticking the course the course would seem the most likely option. If a no deal happens the UK government will be blamed and the same issues will simply continue over to the trade negotiations. Which means their current approach remains the most likely to get the result they want. In fact there isn't really another viable course to do so as far as I can see.
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Thank you.

I think most Irish respondents say Ireland is willing to take an economic hit to preserve their position in the EU (I would be if I were Irish), I think a lot of Brexiters don't understand that the Germans and French are willing to suffer economically if it comes to it too, and indeed a lot of Remainers don't realise there are many Brexiters that feel Brexit is more important that the British economy. There may not be a hard brexit of course, but it should be no surprise if there is.
 
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711 said:
My question was 'What should Ireland do' and your answer seems to be nothing, which is fair enough if they think there is nothing they can do to avoid imminent hard brexit, that would answer the question.
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There's very little they can do. They can't give in to brexiteers because the things brexiteers want don't logically make sense. Scrapping the backstop is a nice soundbite but without any credible alternative it's simply a way of discerning clowns from serious politicians.
 
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balaks said:
I disagree - most people probably don't think of it in those terms or think about 'the Empire' directly however it undoubtably is in the national psyche with an inherant belief that England is more important than most other countries around the world (including the other parts of the UK) - on par with America - and as such should be able to just wait for the EU to bow to their demands for no reason other than 'they can't do without us'. This belief also transfers onto the backstop and the expectation that Ireland/EU should now just bow to UK demands about it being removed entirely. It's just plain arrogance from English politicians.

Obviously I'm not saying most people in England think like this - clearly they do not - but some undoubtably do (there are plenty of videos of people saying pretty much this) and unfortunately most of the ruling class are very much in the 'Rule Brittania' mold and are heavily influenced by Empire, History and their perceived place in the world.
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sullydnl said:
Aye. One of the most obvious lessons of the whole Brexit debacle is that there is very much a sense of British exceptionalism among the UK's political class.
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GBP/EUR is now 1 = 1.0899

GBP/USD is now 1 = 1.2146

How far do we think it'll drop if no deal actually goes ahead?
 
Klopper76 said:
GBP/EUR is now 1 = 1.0899

GBP/USD is now 1 = 1.2146

How far do we think it'll drop if no deal actually goes ahead?
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Every time Boris opens his mouth the pound drops a bit more.

Have always thought the pound would drop below parity for the Euro and not far off it for the Dollar.

You can see the Brexiters now - the pound was always overvalued and those damned Europeans have made my holiday to the Costa del Sol so expensive.
 
711 said:
I still don't accept that Ireland has no parliament or free will of it's own I'm afraid, but no matter, your answer is do nothing different, which is fair enough, and if there is no hard brexit you will be proved correct. Hopefully hard brexit won't affect me too much personally, but I feel for those it will.
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They all have parliaments and free will. Any of them can veto something like the extensions for example. Their position however is reached unanimously after a lot of discussion and they negotiate as a collective 27 with the UK via Barnier.

Boris is not idiotic enough to push through with no deal exit. He never gave a shit about Brexit he just wanted power. The new governments stance is simple posturing to try and get a better deal but the EU won't buy it so we will simply end up at an election on the basis that parliament is not allowing them to deliver Brexit (which is what they're gearing up to judging by the cabinet) or another referendum.
 
Klopper76 said:
GBP/EUR is now 1 = 1.0899

GBP/USD is now 1 = 1.2146

How far do we think it'll drop if no deal actually goes ahead?
Click to expand...

"tHe PoUnD wiLl RecOver"

Yeah maybe one day, in a decade or two, at which point we'll all be massively out of pocket.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
They all have parliaments and free will. Any of them can veto something like the extensions for example. Their position however is reached unanimously after a lot of discussion and they negotiate as a collective 27 with the UK via Barnier.

Boris is not idiotic enough to push through with no deal exit. He never gave a shit about Brexit he just wanted power. The new governments stance is simple posturing to try and get a better deal but the EU won't buy it so we will simply end up at an election on the basis that parliament is not allowing them to deliver Brexit (which is what they're gearing up to judging by the cabinet) or another referendum.
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Thanks. Your answer to my question for Ireland is a bit different to the others, they're saying not being pushed around and a hard brexit is preferable to giving up the backstop, despite an immediate hard border, whereas you're saying it won't happen. You could be right, I was just interested in the answers.
 
sun_tzu said:
low pound is good for exports though... outward looking trading future and all that :nervous:
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At least my export business will flourish then :wenger:
Glad all these Brexiteers are thinking about us exporters over the common man.
 
VeevaVee said:
At least my export business will flourish then :wenger:
Glad all these Brexiteers are thinking about us exporters over the common man.
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well unless your exporting to the EU then you might find any tariffs offset the low pound... or you export something that has high shipping costs as that might be prohibitive to get it half way round the world... or you export to somewhere we currently have a trade deal with that we are about to loose because its an EU deal
but yeah other than that cracking news
 
VeevaVee said:
Can't talk, starting an export business.
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I'm going to sell inflatable boats on the south coast so people can escape to the EU

Somebody already beat me to
s-l640.jpg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/1136591280...ibS3wu5HYn9wmsJxHEnFweq4oXNamU5RoC9-EQAvD_BwE
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Those pesky UK refugees seeking asylum from the insane asylum.
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I was at the bus stop today and there were two women (both of whom looked more like men incidentally) and they were moaning about the Brexit.
Did I mention that they sounded like they were from the Midlands. Anyway. One was complaining about 'the Europeans' making us have a no deal instead of treating us with respect for all we have done for them. The other kept nodding and then said that she didn’t understand any of it but just voted to leave because her partner told her to....
You couldn't make it up.
 
711 said:
Read my post again, I already said the EU will back Ireland, we know that. Ireland has a parliament of it's own, my question is what should they do?

As for the government being brought down, I'll repeat my reply to Kentonio in case you missed it:

But to answer your point, yes there could be an election, although there is no guarantee that the EU would give another extension again, and if it didn't my question would still stand. And if the EU did give an extension there is no guarantee that the new UK parliament would be able to come to agreement on anything anyway, article 50 would be just the same with a new deadline, and again my question would still stand.

My question was 'What should Ireland do' and your answer seems to be nothing, which is fair enough if they think there is nothing they can do to avoid imminent hard brexit, that would answer the question.
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What's a hard Brexit got to do with Ireland?

The UK voted for Brexit not Ireland. It's the UK that can't agree on what Brexit means. Every member state of the EU has agreed on the Brexit deal. It's the UK that can't decide on what they want from Brexit or if they even want Brexit. Our government agreed the Brexit deal then couldn't get their party to back it.

Why should anybody else sort out our mess because Brexit is very much our mess. If we crash out and go into a recession even one that brings the EU with us. We will have caused it no one else.
 
Buster15 said:
I was at the bus stop today and there were two women (both of whom looked more like men incidentally) and they were moaning about the Brexit.
Did I mention that they sounded like they were from the Midlands. Anyway. One was complaining about 'the Europeans' making us have a no deal instead of treating us with respect for all we have done for them. The other kept nodding and then said that she didn’t understand any of it but just voted to leave because her partner told her to....
You couldn't make it up.
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Welcome to my world. Believe me it drives you crazy.
 
Fully Fledged said:
What's a hard Brexit got to do with Ireland?

The UK voted for Brexit not Ireland. It's the UK that can't agree on what Brexit means. Every member state of the EU has agreed on the Brexit deal. It's the UK that can't decide on what they want from Brexit or if they even want Brexit. Our government agreed the Brexit deal then couldn't get their party to back it.

Why should anybody else sort out our mess because Brexit is very much our mess. If we crash out and go into a recession even one that brings the EU with us. We will have caused it no one else.
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If that's a serious question then the UK have asked the EU to remove the backstop from May's withdrawal agreement, which the EU would probably do if Ireland asked them to. Without the backstop parliament would probably back the deal, with the backstop they won't, making a hard brexit much more likely.

I wouldn't have thought that was too complicated to follow, but in the event all the replies have been 'not a chance' so I wouldn't worry about it.
 
711 said:
If that's a serious question then the UK have asked the EU to remove the backstop from May's withdrawal agreement, which the EU would likely do if Ireland asked them to. Without the backstop parliament would probably back the deal, with the backstop they won't, making a hard brexit much more likely.

I wouldn't have thought that was too complicated to follow, but in the event all the replies have been 'not a chance' so I wouldn't worry about it.
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That's never going to happen. That would be Ireland breaking the GFA. They will never do that. If we want to go back on the GFA that is down to us and if we do should we be trusted on any agreement or deal that we sign again?
 
Fully Fledged said:
That's never going to happen. That would be Ireland breaking the GFA. They will never do that. If we want to go back on the GFA that is down to us and if we do should we be trusted on any agreement or deal that we sign again?
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That was indeed the general answer from our Irish friends. I tried my best to make it clear I wasn't asking what the UK should or shouldn't do in my original question (post 53105) but I appreciate you probably came in late.
 
711 said:
That was indeed the general answer from our Irish friends. I tried my best to make it clear I wasn't asking what the UK should or shouldn't do in my original question (post 53105) but I appreciate you probably came in late.
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I get you wasn't asking that but the ball is fully in our court. It's our next move. The EU isn't going to do anything unless we come back with something that is worth them discussing.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Welcome to my world. Believe me it drives you crazy.
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Probably no different to any other part of the country my friend and please don't think that I have any problems with people from the Midlands. I have visited there many many times during my work and I developed a great affection with a number of fantastic guys who worked at Lucas Aerospace. Really excellent people.

The post was made in jest. But there is a serious side to it. And that is that many leave voters still blame the EU for our completely self inflicted difficulties. There is a view that Europe owes us the UK a favour for us being in 'their club'. Words incidentally I have heard on more than one occasion.
Their is a view that we can get out of Europe with no deal and that it will be the Europeans who will suffer.
The shock will soon materialise.
 
Buster15 said:
Probably no different to any other part of the country my friend and please don't think that I have any problems with people from the Midlands. I have visited there many many times during my work and I developed a great affection with a number of fantastic guys who worked at Lucas Aerospace. Really excellent people.

The post was made in jest. But there is a serious side to it. And that is that many leave voters still blame the EU for our completely self inflicted difficulties. There is a view that Europe owes us the UK a favour for us being in 'their club'. Words incidentally I have heard on more than one occasion.
Their is a view that we can get out of Europe with no deal and that it will be the Europeans who will suffer.
The shock will soon materialise.
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I didn't but we do have an above average proportion of leave voters around here. The reasons that they give for want to leave are taken straight from the Mail and the Sun. So if the Sun tells them to blame the EU they will even though they don't know why they are blaming the EU.
 
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