Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
MadMike said:
On the first bolded statement, that only applies to EU members. Switzerland and Norway don't have to accept deeper integration. UK got an exception to that as well.

On the second bolded, what we're seeing now is a rejection of staying in the trade area that the UK allegedly always wanted to be in. Because, if you hear the ERG talk, there's more opportunities for the UK outside of it and it can strike better deals for itself without the weight of the EU28 behind it. The treaty of Rome in 1957 that started was about creating a common market and customs union. Yet now the UK wants to leave even that.

If the UK wants to be in the Customs Union alone, or the Single Market fully, it can choose to do that without a deeper integration. But being in any kind of union means that you're not in full control of your trade policy. It's a group decision. And after years of filling the ears of voters with hate and suspicion of the EU as well as inflating our own self-importance, we're reaping what we sowed. Which is that people want out as point of moral principle that is not underpinned by any logic.
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Why does that quote have my name on? I didn't say that.
 
Reiver said:
To some extent, I can respect those that vote against it. I disagree with it, but they've made a decision and they know it will be made public. But the abstainers can feck right off.
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I have never really understood the logic of abstaining, in particular when they were supposed to be trying to find something the MP'S could AGREE on.
Anyone who did that should be ashamed of themselves.
 
Buster15 said:
As I have mentioned before he is simply a puppet who can bend and sway to the tune he is given.

The power base, if you can call it that rests with the leaders of Momentum. They have Jeremy in a vice like grip and as soon as they have done with him he will be kicked into touch.

Nevertheless, the Conservatives are significantly worse in that since they were able to dispense with the Liberals they have progressively show their true nasty divisions and self interest.

The traditional two party system is badly broken as is politics in general.
What we desperately need is either the emergence of a plausible alternative or better still a real strong leader who is able to pull either party together and give the country back it's sense of purpose.
Neither seem likely but we cannot give up hope.
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Agree completely. Something drastic has to happen and soon. A sorry state of affairs.
 
  • Michel Barnier said that a no-deal Brexit would not remove issues like Ireland and the UK’s financial contribution to the EU from the debate because as soon as the UK opened trade talks with the EU, these issues would reappear. In response to a question from a British MEP, he said:
[After no-deal] there won’t be many months passing before the UK will start asking for negotiations on a free trade agreement or other issues, like transport.

The topics of Brexit will still be there - Ireland, the financial resolution, the legal obligations of the UK, the issues of citizens and citizens’ rights. These are questions we will put again and again.

If there is no deal and the UK wants to discuss trade or other subjects, we will put the same subjects back on the table.


I presume parliament are aware of this.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
I guess they take the May approach and hope that as the deadline gets nearer MPs panic and call a Peoples vote?

My MP is a Lab remainer and he abstained. Annoying.
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You should send him an email telling him how dissatisfied you are.
I have done it many times to my Tory MP. Suffice it to say that he has stopped responding but at least I am telling him directly what I think of him.
 
Damien said:
Remain: 27,678 (42.6%)
Leave: 37,327 (57.4%)

I was in St. Helens at the time but now back in Widnes (Halton). The voting was pretty firmly leave around most of the North West except for Liverpool, Manchester and a few other constituencies.
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I wonder if the 37327 can actually remember why they voted leave.
As we now know the majority were well and truly conned. Sold a vision that could never be achieved.
 
MadMike said:
On the first bolded statement, that only applies to EU members. Switzerland and Norway don't have to accept deeper integration. UK got an exception to that as well.

On the second bolded, what we're seeing now is a rejection of staying in the trade area that the UK allegedly always wanted to be in. Because, if you hear the ERG talk, there's more opportunities for the UK outside of it and it can strike better deals for itself without the weight of the EU28 behind it. The treaty of Rome in 1957 that started was about creating a common market and customs union. Yet now the UK wants to leave even that.

If the UK wants to be in the Customs Union alone, or the Single Market fully, it can choose to do that without a deeper integration. But being in any kind of union means that you're not in full control of your trade policy. It's a group decision. And after years of filling the ears of voters with hate and suspicion of the EU as well as inflating our own self-importance, we're reaping what we sowed. Which is that people want out as point of moral principle that is not underpinned by any logic.
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Mike, I am sure you are not at all mad. I have no idea how that post was attributed to me.
I certainly didn't post any such thing.
 
redshaw said:
If one wants to honour the vote then yes, it's kind of always been the case unless the EU want to undermine themselves for one country so to speak.

EU have put up a very strong position and have left options of calling the whole thing off, the option of a soft brexit which is actually is worse than staying a full member and utterly pointless or agreeing to a WA and getting hammered in the trade negotiations and becoming trapped in limbo.

The only way is to leave on a no deal and hope we can recover and ride the hit and there's pressure from other EU countries to make a trade deal.

EU don't want any kind of favourable deal as it could lead to more leaving. They were never going to help us leaving.

While I'm in favour of remaining a full member, we've been a stick in the mud for a while. EU are always calling for deeper integration of the policies. Is there a chance in 5-10 years UK might have to leave anyway? UK has always favoured the EU just being an economic trade area. Is the UK best off starting now rather than leaving in 10 years?
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Kentonio said:
Why does that quote have my name on? I didn't say that.
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MadMike said:
No idea, I must have fecked up the quoting somehow. Fixed it now.
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Buster15 said:
Mike, I am sure you are not at all mad. I have no idea how that post was attributed to me.
I certainly didn't post any such thing.
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Mystery solved?
 
Laura Kuenssberg, BBC:
'Whispers this morning that clerks in Commons have made it clear to govt that Bercow would not allow them to bring back the deal for another vote - one source says this is a 'BIG PROBLEM' - with capital letters - BUT Speaker's office says not decided yet - let's see.'
 
Buster15 said:
Not sure that I understand but thank you for the information.
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I should have been more explicit. The issue with languages that aren't first languages, english in the UK or french in France isn't new and not so long ago it was even institutionalized. The type of sentiment that Farage exacerbates is dangerous and it's part of the history of a lot of EU countries and it's something that we don't really want to go back to.
 
Mockney said:
How anyone can look at that and their first instinct be to blame Labour is beyond me.
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Labour are the progressive party. They are the party of the people. They are abstaining on giving the option back to the people to decide. People like fecking Lisa Nandy who despite all her bullshit waffle has just shown herself when its crunch time to be just a career politician. I hope she and the rest of the feckwits who abstained or voted against 2nd ref yesterday get fecking decimated in the upcoming polls.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
Labour are the progressive party. They are the party of the people. They are abstaining on giving the option back to the people to decide. People like fecking Lisa Nandy who despite all her bullshit waffle has just shown herself when its crunch time to be just a career politician. I hope she and the rest of the feckwits who abstained or voted against 2nd ref yesterday get fecking decimated in the upcoming polls.
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Labour whipped to support it. I agree on those who abstained or rebelled but that's a criticism of the members not the party.

Still a footnote in comparison to the Tories which was the point
 
Buster15 said:
You should send him an email telling him how dissatisfied you are.
I have done it many times to my Tory MP. Suffice it to say that he has stopped responding but at least I am telling him directly what I think of him.
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I think i will - although no doubt his inbox is full of gammons demanding this and that.
 
Smores said:
Labour whipped to support it. I agree on those who abstained or rebelled but that's a criticism of the members not the party.

Still a footnote in comparison to the Tories which was the point
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That's not good enough the same people from Friday pretty much abstained or voted against. They need to put real pressure on the MPs to get the votes needed. It is quite clear they just care about their seats so threaten them with taking the whip away or not supporting them with their local association then you will see how they will all fall in line. I have no issues with the Tories because they are very open about wanting to have a small government, small public service sector and quite frankly want to turn this country into a tax haven. This is why my problem is with Labour. They need to get a real fecking grip!
 
esmufc07 said:
When does the Queen start getting involved?
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Pfft, May won't let anyone from the outside world into her inner circle.

That sounds a bit rude, actually...
 
Devil_forever said:
We won’t be leaving with no deal. It’s been ruled out over and over, May simply wouldn’t do it. We’ll be taking part in the EU elections and getting a long extension. I wish they would just stick the customs union on to her deal and pass the damn thing already.
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They haven't actually removed no deal as the default and yes I think she would do it.
 
Drifter said:
Head of civil service warns ministers of dire impact of leaving EU without deal
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And, yet, apparently May saying she will choose no deal if it comes down to a choice between it and revocation. At some level this is treasonous, surely? It is all very well for an ill-informed Joe down the pub to choose no deal, but the cabinet have seen the data on this. How can they willingly choose no deal?
 
RedChip said:
And, yet, apparently May saying she will choose no deal if it comes down to a choice between it and revocation. At some level this is treasonous, surely? It is all very well for an ill-informed Joe down the pub to choose no deal, but the cabinet have seen the data on this. How can they willingly choose no deal?
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Cos it's the will ov da people d@ brexit means brexit init #gerronwivit
 
sun_tzu said:
Cos it's the will ov da people d@ brexit means brexit init #gerronwivit
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Yeah, it is stupid beyond belief.

The only potential gain I can see of Brexit is that the fallout from it will be so catastrophic that the British people will not fall for this sort of con so easily again.
 
RedChip said:
Yeah, it is stupid beyond belief.

The only potential gain I can see of Brexit is that the fallout from it will be so catastrophic that the British people will not fall for this sort of con so easily again.
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Or the whole deconstruction of the British political and economic system. The death of both the Tory and Labour party and the current neo-liberal economic system.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Or the whole deconstruction of the British political and economic system. The death of both the Tory and Labour party and the current neo-liberal economic system.
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That would be good too. Inadvertently, Brexit could be the resetting event the system needs. It is certainly not working well.
 
RedChip said:
That would be good too. Inadvertently, Brexit could be the resetting event the system needs. It is certainly not working well.
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Wouldn't get your hopes up, The Conservatives have been around for years and they always weasel their way back after destruction like cockroaches.
 
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