That's bullshit. Corbyn could hand May a deal on a piece of paper, then May put's it to parliament and Labour would vote against it. Party politics nothing less. Labour have no cohesive stand on Brexit and neither is it their No. 1 one priority.
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Seriously scared her deal will get through now.
Labour MPs have absolutely no back bone
Labour MPs have absolutely no back bone
I'm surprised commentators still seem to regard it as unlikely this deal will pass, it looks to me like it will.
Well it depends on how many actual labour rebels there are. Seems there might not actually be that many maybe max 5-10. There are calculated to be around 25 tories who have switched over. So there is still a significant amount of votes she has to get.
What time's the vote?
I still cannot see this getting through.
Result around half two I heard
cheers
This is like the matchday thread. What is the concern her deal will pass based on? I'm in Thailand on hols and am coming into today's fresh hell cold.
If I have no say in what powers are created and how they are used what difference does it make whether they are made in London or Brussels?
I'm a complete Europhile. I buy into the idea that I can go anywhere in Europe at a split seconds notice. Can work anywhere in Europe or can study anywhere in Europe(even though my years of study are behind me).
For me its the fact that the likes of Johnson and JRM have folded. But to be fair I dont see anything to suggest Labour will do the same.
I thought the last vote would be close too and I was completely wrong. I am probably just bracing myself for it, rather than really expecting it for logical reasons.
Rumours of Labour MPs rebelling and voting for the deal. Also now seems the ERG will mostly be voting for the deal. There will be very little in it. But if she can get a decent portion of labour rebels on board then it could get through.
They are going to say look how slow the traffic is going. That is how much people care about Brexit. It's like saying I'm gonna sit in my car for 20 minutes not moving between 8 and 9 on the M25. You now it's gonna happen anyway.Just seen on social media, people planning to drive stupidly slow along the M60 from Heaton Park at 7:30/8:00 this morning. For those that know the M60 that's all they'll be doing anyway, it's gridlocked at that time no matter what.
I'd really love to speak to some of the idiots that have gone out of their way to sit in rush hour traffic for no reason
The rebels will vote for it that's a given They did last time.
Thanks, appreciate the update- it's weird being on holiday but also fretting about Brexit.
Johnson is only folding cos of his naked opportunism about the PM job. The Guardian seemed confident it would not go through earlier, just hope they're right. I fully understand why one would mentally prepare for the worst. Thought Labour wouldn't vote for a 'blindfold Brexit' though and this still has the hated back-stop in there.
When I speak about the EU, I speak about the member states too - it is about collective responsibility. I don't dispute that in plenty of cases, anger that should be directed at the respective governments, is in fact hurled at Brussels. But the threat nonetheless remains - and so it'd seem sensible to me to look to collectively address that threat rather than to ignore it and hope that it remains a minority. Nor does it seem sensible to double-down on the very thing that people have long expressed concerns about - greater centralisation. The UK can't be treated as a 'problem child' and the referendum result dismissed as a freak. As of last year, only 28% of people believed the EU was headed in the 'right direction', hardly a ringing endorsement.
If I was Johnson I would have played it a bit differently though, yes he wants to be PM and so wants May to go and so yes, getting the deal through helps facilitate that, but do people really think the only way May goes is if she passes her deal? She is Dead PM Walking either way, all he has done is opened himself up to accusations of self interest and flip flopping, and angered his die hard Brexiter fans. He should (IMO) have played a slightly longer game, (for once) stuck to his "principles" (pretending he has any) and waited, the job is going to open up one way or the other in the next few months. This just makes him look even more of an arsehole than usual, if that was even possible.
So the fact that he is swinging behind the deal makes me think that is where he feels the wind is blowing. I read it as, Johnson always wants to back the winning horse, so him getting behind the deal is evidence that he thinks a critical mass of MPs are doing the same. He is a follower, not a leader.
But as I said, I have no real conviction in my ability to accurately read these situations. It doesnt seem like this is how other people understand his actions, so I am probably reading it all wrong.
That sounds a very credible and plausible reading of the situation, but the situation is so unpredictable and irrational that trying to call it is anyone's guess.
I just don't get Labour MPs voting with her- appreciate a lot of them have leave constituencies but literally no-one thinks the deal is in the best interests of the country.
In an ideal world perhaps with you leading the team 2 years would be adequate.
But we all know that the world is not an ideal place.
Not just because she's a woman. What a prat.
That is fair. Regrettably our politicians have demonstrated that they are not fit for purpose and while many are professional politicians, in reality they are absolute rank amateurs.
I don't think it will be enough, no. The offer to step down has in fact likely proved counter-productive in terms of securing Labour votes, because they're concerned that voting her deal through guarantees a hard Brexit under a new Brexiteer PM.
The speaker has allowed the vote because this is substantially different to the two previous meaningful votes - the political declaration regarding the future relationship, has been removed.
Maybe some people think the only acceptable solution will be one that is nobody's worst case scenario, even if it is also nobody's best case? An option that pisses everyone off, but without anybody being absolutely terminally outraged? Isnt that one way to proceed when you have the country split down the middle with completely contradictory views? This ticks that box.
Also, some people might be willing to vote for almost anything at this point to just be done with it. I think it is more this one that I can see motivating people, really. The sheer exhaustion and frustration of it, the loss of the will to live, let alone do a job as an MP. Vote for it so we can move on. (Even if we just go onto a new stage of Brexit.)
I think a lot of people in the country might feel like that. Be relieved if May's deal passes, even if it is shit, just so we dont have to hear any more about this damn withdrawal agreement.
I agree with you. It would be a very risky thing to do, and a betrayal.
Have to agree.
I listened to K Starmer this morning and was disappointed with his argument.
He accepted that Labour agreed with the WA but would not vote for the WA because TM had separated it from the Political Declaration.
I would have hoped that they would compromise and support the WA and work with the government to make the PD acceptable given that it is open to negotiation.
Wishful thinking on my part.
I used to be involved in local politics and amateurs is the correct term, a large amount of politicians that get to the top do it through networking, they aren't even the ones selling their ideas to the population, that's done by anonymous supporters who actually talk to the common man/woman. The other thing is that if you get involved in politics you will quickly witness treachery, none of these people got there by being honest or loyal that's not how the system work.
Except Corbyn, right? He's a different kind of politician. An idealist, a dreamer, and a man who will fight for the common man to the last drop of his blood.
Because the same issues in Scunthorpe aren’t the same as in Brescia. Farage and his mates have tainted the whole taking back control angle but the premise is very sound and simple to me. I am not an advocate of leaving the EU
Yep I agree with this and this is largely what the non-sound bite quoting leave voters say to me. And it’s a position I do understand and respect, however it’s not something you can change from outside.
Anyone know what the numbers are like for the pro-Brexit protest in Parliament Square?
I guess, but feck, second referendum keeps feeling like it's in touching distance, but never quite close enough. That has to be the best outcome.
what time is the vote meant to be today?
Its the best outcome for me and you and probably a majority at this point.
But I can also see the other side of the argument. When Ireland rejected the EU constitution and they were just told to vote again I remember shaking my head and thinking what a travesty of democracy that was. Keep asking till you get the answer you want, it is such an EU approach to politics. I can see that in this case there is a real justification for it, and I hope it happens, but if I was for Brexit I would feel the system was rigged against me if that happened.
Also, if a second referendum happens and we vote to remain, politics is going to be very, very ugly for a very, very long time. It is not a solution in that sense, it swaps one problem for another, and the problem we end up with will not be a walk in the park. I imagine there will be massive civil unrest.
Probably we get that whatever happens though.
2.30pm ish
5 billion aprox
The comment was going swimmingly until.the end.
Thanks Nigel
Sounds like an adequate exaggeration.