Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Bit more action than i thought with the amendments
  • Indicative votes
  • Block MV3
  • Second Referendum
  • Extension for new red lines negotiation
 
I must admit to being surprised at this talk of a third vote so soon. It does open up the possibility that, if there is no extension, there will be a fourth vote just before the deadline.

As @Smores says above though, today's amendments could alter everything again. It doe seem a bit undemocratic to completely alter the meaning of a bill and then almost immediately vote on it, giving MPs no time to consider it or consult their constituents or anyone else.
 
sullydnl said:
It also (I think) helps May politically for him to suggest that's the case? May is essentially going to offer MPs a choice: short delay + her deal or long delay + european elections + potential referendum/revocation/whatever.

As such even if the EU are in fact extremely reluctant to see a long extension (which they're bound to be) and see no liklihood of the UK actually cancelling the whole thing, it makes sense for the likes of Tusk to hype the possibility of that happening?
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It's forcing our hand. Either we accept the current deal or we revoke Article 50.

The EU won't extend the deadline just for us to renegotiate the existing deal, and whilst they would extend it to give us more time to prepare for no deal, we just voted against that too. The only option we haven't yet put to a vote is to revoke Article 50 entirely.

I've thought all along we would find a way to worm out of leaving, seems that this is it.
 
Penna said:
I've also heard that point of view, but it doesn't make sense.

Everyone can vote to choose their local MP. In our Tory constituency our candidate always loses, but we don't feel we haven't had a say. Similarly, we all have a vote for our region's MEP. I know that many people just don't bother voting for a European representative, but that doesn't mean they haven't had the chance to have their say.

UK turnout for the last 2 European elections was around 35%. That shows how massively important most people think it is. But now, suddenly the UK is under the giant European thumb and we should leave at all costs.

edit - I have to conclude that some people don't like the idea of being "ruled" by foreigners, which is ironic considering the British Royal Family is basically German and Greek.
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Add to Brexit heroes like Churchill who was half American, Boris born in the US , Farage of German descent and the list goes on.
 
Do away goals really count double?

They're trying for a 3 month extension because they know it will be rejected out of hand :lol:

Text of government motion:
That this house: (1) notes the resolutions of the house of 12 and 13 March, and accordingly agrees that the government will seek to agree with the European Union an extension of the period specified in article 50(3);

(2) agrees that, if the house has passed a resolution approving the negotiated withdrawal agreement and the framework for the future relationship for the purposes of section 13(1) (b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by 20 March 2019, then the government will seek to agree with the European Union a one-off extension of the period specified in article 50(3) for a period ending on 30 June 2019 for the purpose of passing the necessary EU exit legislation; and

(3) notes that, if the house has not passed a resolution approving the negotiated withdrawal agreement and the framework for the future relationship for the purposes of section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by 20 March 2019, then it is highly likely that the European council at its meeting the following day would require a clear purpose for any extension, not least to determine its length, and that any extension beyond 30 June 2019 would require the United Kingdom to hold European Parliament elections in May 2019.
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Big question now I guess on whether labour as a group votes for the 2nd referendum or not.
 
The reason i don't see a second ref passing today is that we've not even explored a soft brexit with the EU yet. That should occur prior to asking the people.
 
I'm too pessimistic to think that the 2nd ref amendment will pass. I don't think there's any indication that a majority in the commons favour it.
 
Smores said:
The reason i don't see a second ref passing today is that we've not even explored a soft brexit with the EU yet. That should occur prior to asking the people.
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Thought Mays deal was pretty much a soft brexit.
 
golden_blunder said:
So basically we’re doing votes about votes?
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We’re going to have a vote to invoke a democratic act of which the main argument against it is that it would be undemocratic to invoke this democratic act.
 
Minimalist said:
Thought Mays deal was pretty much a soft brexit.
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Better than any other option mentioned on here or by anyone else apart from revoking Article 50 altogether.

MP's are mad.

GE - solves nothing unless winning party agrees to revoke A40 or do the EU/May WA
Referendum - total can of worms, probably solves nothing.
Norway - Pointless. Might as well revoke A50
CU Only - Possible. Upside - Irish solution, control of immigration. Downside - Money to pay, No independent trade deals, not free of ECJ (virtually pointless)
 
Sounds like many in PV campaign aren't happy about the tabling of the amendment today. I'd agree it's premature and should have come next week instead.

The government are also doing their usual trick of vaguely offering the same proposition as one of the amendments (indicative votes) so they can manipulate it's form. Hope parliament has learnt it's lesson and ignore them.
 
Smores said:
Yes, there is and they've been quite clear on that. The issue is not that there's no viable deal it's that May's red lines prevent one.
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That would require a new Parliament and a new government though. The current one rejected May's deal twice, why would they accept an even softer deal?
 
Honest John said:
Better than any other option mentioned on here or by anyone else apart from revoking Article 50 altogether.

MP's are mad.

GE - solves nothing unless winning party agrees to revoke A40 or do the EU/May WA
Referendum - total can of worms, probably solves nothing.
Norway - Pointless. Might as well revoke A50
CU Only - Possible. Upside - Irish solution, control of immigration. Downside - Money to pay, No independent trade deals, not free of ECJ (virtually pointless)
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Whilst to anyone with half a brain the bottom 2 are pointless, it's still technically leaving the EU and it's what I'd do if they were so hell bent on respecting the referendum result. Norway+ was offered by the EU and we should take it.
 
This is tough, I have to choose between no-deal and my country being crippled, or having to put up with this shite for another 21 months?
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Whilst to anyone with half a brain the bottom 2 are pointless, it's still technically leaving the EU and it's what I'd do if they were so hell bent on respecting the referendum result. Norway+ was offered by the EU and we should take it.
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Norway + just means you're in the EU without a vote.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Whilst to anyone with half a brain the bottom 2 are pointless, it's still technically leaving the EU and it's what I'd do if they were so hell bent on respecting the referendum result. Norway+ was offered by the EU and we should take it.
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There is some value in what you say because from Norway we could at least rejoin in the future. But all our 'special treatments' will have gone and so we'd have to stomach the Euro and Shengen etc. Plus the Brixiteers have now been conditioned to think Norway is a sell out.
 
Smores said:
Yes, there is and they've been quite clear on that. The issue is not that there's no viable deal it's that May's red lines prevent one.
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All deals without Mays red lines would be virtually pointless - may as well Remain.
Leaving without a deal would be too painful so not really an option.

May's deal sits between pointless and painful but at least provides for a comprehensive trade deal with the EU at the end.

It requires faith, goodwill and work on both sides to have any chance of success.

That is where our idiot MP's are sticking. They think the EU will shaft us.

But if I see it correctly there is no benefit in either side dragging their feet.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Norway + just means you're in the EU without a vote.
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Well, EFTA not the EU. Although Norway have ruled out letting us join that anyway so it's a moot point.

Basically I think we should leave the EU in name only to honour the referendum result and deal with the domestic issues that have given rise to this entire shit show in the first place by ourselves.
 
Massive Spanner said:
This is tough, I have to choose between no-deal and my country being crippled, or having to put up with this shite for another 21 months?
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I know you’re not fully serious but I’ve heard people say stuff like this for months. I’d rather people just stop watching the news for a while so that it’s sorted out properly than a car crash brexit
 
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