Isn’t a massive amount of uncertainty exactly what Brexit has created?
You knew exactly what you were getting with the EU.
The future of the UK post Brexit is the epitome of uncertainty.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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You knew exactly what you were getting with the EU.
The future of the UK post Brexit is the epitome of uncertainty.
Parliament is majority remain, the difficult part is the second option on the ballot as the tories will be split over the Mays deal/No deal and there's zero consensus for either from the other parties
Thanks for clarifying
They would have to be very clear on the 5 questions/ choices on the ballot. Anything other than 2 x Brexit variants and 2 x remain options would be a disaster
Then how are they going to make that tell without some of them 'crossing the floor'? They can't keep playing for a 0-0 draw, and then after extra time losing on penalties!
Think we've come full circle?
Even if a second referendum is held, there is no guarantee (primarily because of unpredictable events) that Remain would get the question it wants on the ballot and/or win with a large enough majority for any Government to risk going against the original result. Moreover the EU are unlikely to wait very long and may not get all 27 states to agree to an extension, certainly one that cannot guarantee a Remain outcome...I wouldn't if I were the EU.
Any lengthy delay would run up against the EU elections and Farage and his buddies are already practicing their war chants in anticipation, another dose of Nigel is not what the EU wants and neither Juncker nor Tusk wants to go down in EU history as the ones who let the UK get away on their watch!
It's a matter of timeframes - short term uncertainty vs medium- long term uncertainty
I guess we'll find out next week. May's deal should fail on Tuesday, Corbyn will then table the second referendum and it depends if there's enough (need about a dozen or so) tory rebels who vote for it. Then comes the showdown for the wording.
Brexit is uncertainty across all the “terms” of the timeframe.
Really puzzling how you can be arguing against uncertainty and for Brexit at the same time.
Unlikley to pass I think... Don't think the numbers add up that said if it was a conservative back bench motion or a joint labour and conservative motion then you might get enough conservative MPs back it... Can't see more than a handful backing an official labour motion... And certainly not enough to offset the fact that the dup plus probably 15 to 25 labour MP's wouldn't back it either
Bias is trumping comprehension with you again it seems
I'm dine with you for today
It's not 15-25 labour who would oppose it, it'll be single digits
There was 7 who voted for Mays deal... I think at least double that who might not back Mays deal but don't necessarily want to vote for a 2nd referendum... And lets be honest as Corbyn voted against the labour whip over 300 times I think most feel at liberty to vote or abstain as they feel because meh hypocrisy
Flint claiming 60 to 70 labour MPs against referendum...
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/up-t...xit-referendum-caroline-flint-claims-11654131
Don't think it will be that high but I think single figures is also way out
None of these are likley to fall in line
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/seven-labour-mps-backed-brexit-bill/amp/
And looks very likley more would abstain or vote against a 2nf ref... Policy or not (also even if labour did whip votes will it be 1 line or 3 line... I suspect it would be the minimal effort as they run the risk of fracturing as much as the conservatives over brexit)
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Maybe tomorrow you’ll have an answer for what Brexit will actually do then. Since there obviously aren’t any short, medium, or long term uncertainties, and it is obviously just my bias that is clouding judgment.
At least you're getting a free dinner out of it.
I'm glad you start to think critically instead of primarily acting out of bias.
There may be hope for you yet, but best I leave you to your contemplation. Great work today, the first step is the biggest step
Did it say "2 part vote" on the 1975 referendum ballot paper?
I look forward to your explanation tomorrow.
Not to mention the thorny issue of countries like Spain not wanting to allow breakaway nations being allowed into the EU (given the situation in Catalonia).
This is true. Should I get excited, or will it be something inherently boring and British? (No offense to the Brits, but you do make fun of your own cuisine for a reason)
Probably a pie or something.
True. Such an awful mess.
Don't know, it was 40 odd years ago and before my time
Why do you think I have a french wife and live in France.
You could take the opportunity for him to explain the benefits of Brexit because surely someone, somewhere must know what they are.
Imagine that... Voting on the basis of a negotiated deal rather than a vague ideaIt did not, it said this:
Even then we still had Leavers talking bowlox.
He's bang on...
I actually had no idea that was the case with the first referendum. It makes this referendum even more ridiculous (if possible)
Another post that adds nothing to the discussion
Ok so i will tell you, it didnt. By your own logic we therefore shouldnt have had the 2016 vote because that was a 'neverendum' (your words) following he vote in 75.
That's not my logic
A 40+ year gap is not a neverendum. Multiple generations have passed, before another referendum was taken.
Furthermore, in this specific case, it wasn't a vote to leave the EC (which no longer exists), but to leave the EU. A very different entity
If you can't see the difference and significance of that timeframe, then best to stay away from 'logic' or be less biased in your viewpoints
That part is not exactly true. The UK joined the three pillars which included the European community. The EU is the three pillars under a single legal act, it's not a very different entity, it's a very similar entity.
You know what the word never means, right?
Cause Freedom of Movement, a single currency and political institutions that mirror a state (e.g. a foreign ministry) are just little changes.
FFS
None of these have been created by the EU(post maastricht). The UK don't have the single currency, the foreign policy comes from the EPC created in 1970, freedom of movement is also a plan from the late 60s early 70s and the ECSC is/was a political treaty which is stipulated in its preamble.
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You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I voted for Freedom of Movement in 1975. The Uk aren't in the single currency and never would have been.
We didn't have freedom of movement of unskilled workers from the former eastern block in 1975, a point of contention for a large part of the population. And a change
Yes, I know we are not in the currency. My point was that the EU has changed significantly from the EC in the 40 plus years. It's moved from economic to political. It didn't have a single currency, as large a population or political institutes - it now has. Around the corner is a potential EU military,
- it's becoming a super state.
Some people might like that, some won't. But the fact is that it's a massive change over 40+ years, which has evolved with each Treaty
The single currency had been an objective of the EC since well before the UK joined. The goals of the EC , now the EU,have not changed very much and when the referendum was held in 1975 all these points were discussed then . It has developed and more countries have joined with the ultimate goal that the whole of Europe would be part of it.
The Uk have control over people, just that they didn't exercise that control, if an immigrant is a burden on the country, they can be sent home.
You may have noticed that there has been a vast reduction of immigrants from the Eu since the referendum but immigration has not fallen because they have been replaced by immigrants from outside the EU.
Strangely back before the UK were in the EC, people moaned about immigrants taking skilled jobs like doctors and that there was a brain drain from the UK. How times have changed. Wonder who's going to do the unskilled jobs, especially when the UK are bragging how low the unemployment is.
All the countries have agreed to those changes, including Britain.
Why do people bother arguing with @Bola
Does anyone actually think there is any sort of point to it? Might as well try to convince a brick not to sink in water...
Does anyone actually think there is any sort of point to it? Might as well try to convince a brick not to sink in water...
3 pages on referendums and neverendums with @Bola , why the fuss? If he is so strict with the terms and rules and so, the referendum was consultative, not binding, so UK shouldnt be bind to leave the EU based on the vote of the people.
I don't agree at all that this should be the format. Some people that would like to leave under May's deal, would rather prefer remain than leave without a deal and would be too late to go back for them
The format should be
Remain vs May's Deal
Remain vs No deal
May's Deal vs No deal
Or put in order your preference from 1 to 3
Remain
May's deal
No deal
And make a calculation of the results according to preferences