Well you clearer have a different perception to me on the EU and I doubt I change your mind
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Well you clearer have a different perception to me on the EU and I doubt I change your mind
They had no need to let us off some many of our financial obligations to arrive at the 39 billion figure. They had n need to try to solve the Irish border issue for us. They had no need to put up with the sheer incompetence of our negotiation. They could have taken offence to all of the stupid and offensive lies that have been told about them and been suitably difficult in negotiations. They could have just said the only options are no deal or stay.
They did none of these things. They just acted professionally and ethically throughout. Unlike our shower.
What US trade deal? May had plenty of time to see what the US would offer in a deal but made no attempt whatsoever.
How can ministers be concerned about something the government are very obviously not interested in at all?
Still nothing really happening with Brexit, no new developments just time wasting.
That is very vague and simply not true. What is 'anything'? What arrangements can be made to ensure the GFA isn't broken? To ensure there is not a hard border on the island of Ireland without breaking the GFA, EU, and WTO rules?
Liberty? WTF are you talking about.
You do realize though that most of the reasons for brexit have been self-made due to the failings of successive governments over many years. Blaming EU for everything is an easy narrative
Fight to the death?
I think it should been a clear majority like 60% or two thirds. Moreover, the type of Brexit should have been decided or there should have been options for a complete or partial Brexit.
Yes. I remember when we begged to get in to save us from economic ruin. Now we are going out of our way to go back to those dark economic times.
Fair point.
If I was to very crudely assign blame, is say the EU should have offered more to Cameron to prevent the Brexit result, May should have rejected the 'deal' much earlier and the EU now need to get sensible around matters of sovereignty
Cameron asked for a law that exists since 2003.
Compromise and risk the GFA? What?
I assume this is a reference to the backstop?
I'm not going to educate you on the basic political principles of how a political state comes about.
You might need to do some wider reading
Again, you would only be joining said backstop if alternative arrangements don't materialise. And you provided no real answer on those alternative arrangements. Am I right then in suggesting your fear for the backstop is because you don't think there are realistic alternative arrangements?
What exactly is this clean brexit anyway? No deal? Because that will be far from clean, despite what Farage says.
Perhaps we should hold a referendum on that?
What in the almighty flying feck are you on about?
What does how a political state comes about have to do with my question?
I've asked you twice now. WHAT alternatives are there to the backstop that won't break every trade rule out there as well as destroy the GFA? And don't just say "anything" again.
A key factor, not the only factor
I agree that the Brexit result was influenced by 'side' issues unrelated to structural issues with the construct of the EU
It's frightening to see people pop up in here and parrot what the likes of Fox and Davis are saying. Shows you how gullible people really are and why we're in this position in the first place.
We've set our red lines which dictate the type of exit we can have, if we want a different exit we just need different red lines. It's like going to a dealership saying you won't spend more than 10k and shouting at the dealer because he won't give you a McLaren P1, "come on mate anything's possible" ffs
We've set our red lines which dictate the type of exit we can have, if we want a different exit we just need different red lines. It's like going to a dealership saying you won't spend more than 10k and shouting at the dealer because he won't give you a McLaren P1, "come on mate anything's possible" ffs
The Northern Ireland and Irish border specifically
You seen to be going down a rabitt hole. I can't explain any further, so I bit going to join you
So how do you think the UK including NI can leave the EU and the CU/SM without breaking the Good Friday Agreement while also adhering to WTO regulations?
After all this is what the backstop designed around the UK governments redlines is primarily for.
If don't understand the basic principles of sovereignty and liberty, we may as well be conversing in an alien language.
Anything's possible with the right attitude, you just need to be creative and compromise.
Just once I'd like someone to come on here and be able to give a reasoned discussion and actually offer solutions to the issues at hand, but they never can. They always just talk about liberty and sovereignty and the big bad EU and avoid answering questions around how to actually solve these issues. It's quite tragic, really.
I'd like you to explain how sovereignty and liberty will solve the border issue and trade issue.
Please educate me.
Do you even know what Cameron have asked the EU?
Hasn't Trump already told May that the price of a trade deal with the US will be the lowering of our food regulations? Brexiteers wanted bendy bananas but will end up with chlorine washed, anti-biotic laden sub-quality meat.
Read some books and come back with some more rounded opinions
I'm going to follow my own advice by looking up the implications of Irish border agreements in relation to WTO rules to understand the constraints better
Divertion tacticts from Brexiters when asked to back up their claims, classic.The backstop as it now stands is a hostage to fortune that no UK government can accept and it is why ultimately the binary choice will return, i.e. Leave with no deal, or cancel Brexit altogether.
The fact that May apparently accepted it, doesn't bode well for her or her Government in the future, whatever the outcome from Brexit. It is equivalent to the 'peace in our time' piece of paper a former British Prime minister waved as he got off the plane from Munich in the 1930's
The fact that May apparently accepted it, doesn't bode well for her or her Government in the future, whatever the outcome from Brexit. It is equivalent to the 'peace in our time' piece of paper a former British Prime minister waved as he got off the plane from Munich in the 1930's
Bit of both it seems;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-blamed-for-nissan-manufacturing-u-turn/
Also it's now clear the government did bribe them to stay;
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...o-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers
If it's all to do with Diesel emissions - why offer them a bribe to stay post Brexit?
This seems to be an alien concept to many Brexiteers. To them, it's perfectly natural that the UK protects its own interests but the EU is selfish and aloof and arrogant for doing so.
Fairly certain there haven't been any meaningful discussions of any kind.
That is something I think that has been assumed.
Government aren't really even interested in any kind of US deal from what I can see.
I can't offer any further opinions if you don't answer my fecking questions.
Your realize that you don't lose your sovereignty in a bilateral agreement? The UK never lost any sovereignty as members of the EU since they were part of the decision making process.
Go read books on sovereignty @Bola
How exactly are continental European politics changing (seeing as the overwhelming majority of countries in it still have pro eu politicians and publics) and what exactly the rapid growth of other economies has to do with its demise?
Also not sure how you can call the EU arrogant considering how we've approached the negotiations.
And I am pretty sure that I asked you how the EU had been helpful in the leaving process.
You ought not ask a question until you have answered one.
I can see what you are getting so angry, but don't let fear rule your life
What does that even mean? How is the EU not sensible around matters of sovereignty?
Also, what further concessions should the UK have got? You got the rebate, you opted out of Schengen, of the Eurozone, of the Charter of Fundamental Human Rights, of the Area of freedom, security, and justice. The only other member with so many fecking opt-outs is Denmark. You were even guaranteed exemption from the stated goal of deepening integration!
Seriously, posts like this make it feel like Brexiteers believe the EU should forget about its own interests entirely, shit on all its member states and just bend over backwards to make sure the UK gets everything it wants. Even though the UK cannot actually articulate what it wants.