I've seen them. I'm referring to those who think Ibra has been an issue and is holding us back. The issues are clearly else where. That being said I'd like us to invest in at least one goalscorer in the summer.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 28
- Assists
- 9
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
I've seen them. I'm referring to those who think Ibra has been an issue and is holding us back. The issues are clearly else where. That being said I'd like us to invest in at least one goalscorer in the summer.
What's odd is posters claiming that Zlatan can't help us challenge for a title and needs to be improved upon if we are to challenge again. Every single bit of real World information on the other hand tells you that if our wingers had fired like Chelsea's this season, we'd be right in the mix.
Instead neither Miki nor Martial have even 4 league goals and Wayne Rooney is our top assister for the season, 1 ahead of, you guessed it, Zlatan!
And they are discussed extensively. Too much in fact. Given that I don't really understand what you claim fans can't see.
Saying you want a different type of striker doesn't automatically mean you blame Ibra for us not winning the league. I don't think you can put that on any one player.
Zlatan as a player is definitely > Benzema and he's a class above. But tactically Benzema is important for that Real side. Put Ibra up top alongside Ronaldo and Bale, wouldn't work as well - would slow up the attack.
I disagree massively, Zlatan would take that side up a notch, he's better at absolutely everything. Suarez for Benzema would take it up an extra notch.
Erm clearly I wasnt talking about anyone who wants a different striker next season. Given I have also said I wouldnt mind that. So Im not sure what you're even on about now. The post you just quoted cleary states what I was refering to.
This is simple. You said fans can't see the problem with the wings. Yet you agree fans (including myself) have complained about those positions all season.
The reason I'm dwelling on this is because it's another fabrication being used to repel the slightest Zlatan criticism. Fans are perfectly capable of critiquing Ibra AND being aware of the wing problems.
at one time there was mention of Dembele of Celtic as a player we were in for. Top striker.
If we did not have Zlatan...and Rooney being done.
Martial
Rashford
Griezmann
Dembele.
we would be set.
If we did not have Zlatan...and Rooney being done.
Martial
Rashford
Griezmann
Dembele.
we would be set.
Like I said before. In the post you previously quoted. It was to some fans who were saying we would be top of the league or challenging if Zlatan had been better this season or blaming our issues this season on Zlatan
Ive been in here critiscing Zlatan on occation so if you're trying to get at people who want to repel Zalatan critism then go and bother someone else.
I'm not sure Dembele has done enough to claim we "would be set" but he does look very very good up North.
It's just debate, the reason we're here presumably. Not trying to get at anyone
back to back hatricks recently?
He is young and has shown quality even if it is Scotland. Heard mention 20 million? Not saying it is happening of course. He may be happy enough there. But should be worth considering.
Without doubt, and I'm sure a tonne of clubs would be more than happy to take a risk at 20m.
Yes, while at the same time stating Zlatan is the reason we're not higher up the table. And most aren't critisizing our wing players but Mourinho for apparantly holding them back, in Mikhi and Martials case.
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Apparently not.....
That aside I can understand the frustration regarding his general play..
He is hot and cold when he's good he is really good and vice versa.. But his output is phenomenal 20 goals and 8 assists is a fantastic return with 20 + games left if all goes to plan.. But his lack of intensity sometimes rubs people the wrong way..
Not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but really glad he is playing for us..
Doesn't surprise me if we include long distance attempts as Kane's long shooting is sporadic and pointless. He takes a lot of pointless pot shots from range as he is quite greedy. That said, some would argue that you are afforded less time and space in the premier league to pop shots off as you are closed down with more intensity. In Kane's maiden season he converted around 1 in 3 shots he took inside the penalty area, 2nd season is was around 1 in 4 (this included his drought) and now it is back to 1 in 3. Zlatan is on a 1 in 5. Is there a suggestion that defences in ligue 1 make life easier for strikers? How has Radamel Falcao scored 16 goals from 33 shots in the penalty area? He has above 40% conversion. That's insane. He couldn't finish jack shite in the premier league and now all of a sudden he is Batistuta again. Balotelli is on nearly 40% conversion. How do 2nd rate strikers go to ligue 1 and become clinical? They must focus on finishing training non stop
It might just be a small sample size as mentioned? It might just be a new player in a new team and a new league as opposed to a player in a settled side, comfortable with his teammates and the league? It might just be that 4 penalties as "shots inside the area" this season have skewed the stats a little?
To claim Kane is twice as efficient as Zlatan is a bit nuts @Stacks.
true, I am a bit nuts
Has anybody said he's the sole reason we're not higher up the league? If so quote it.
I'm not really bothered to look through dozens of pages right now, I will when I have time though. You have no comment on the rest of the post you quoted?
Forgott to mention, in addition to criticizing Mourinho for Mikhi and Martial being poor at the same time tearing in to Lingard and Rooney very excessively to say the least.
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No mate that's not the same as saying he's the ONLY reason we're not higher up the league. I'm sure those posters, if you asked them, would also say we need a new CDM, more consistent wingers etc.
You're reading too much into posts.
I'm not, people are saying he's not good enough for a team that wants to challenge, no amount of spin will change that. It is however blindingly obvious that as a lone striker, he has done his job as well as anyone else in the league and that we would be challenging now if Martial and Miki had been playing as well as Ali, Pedro, Hazard, etc etc. feck me, even Sterling, who is possibly the worst finisher I've ever seen at a top club has more goals than our second top scorer.
Excluding pens:
Costa - 23 games - 15 goals - 29 chances created
Kane - 20 starts - 10 goals - 27 chances created
Ibrahimovic - 24 starts - 14 goals - 43 chances created
As mentioned earleir @Dobbs, the huge difference with United and the rest of the top 5 is the output of our other forwards. That's where the frustration arises for myself, @Janson @Cassidy etc; plenty of posters claim that despite us being just 2 points off 2nd and despite all evidence to the contrary, that Zlatan is a big reason that we are not challenging now and that we cannot challenge whilst he is in the team.
Now if you just claim you prefer a different type of forward, that's fine, but posters don't need to start claiming untruths. I can say that I also prefer a Suarez-type forward, but Mourinho doesn't play with that type of striker and whilst he is our manager, a season like Zlatan's is brilliant for us from our Mourinho lone-forward.
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So after claiming posters are saying Zlatan is the sole reason for our struggles and after being asked for proof you say:
You might have forgot but we've had a very similar conversation in the Rooney thread:
If you can't find a single example to back up these claims I personally wouldn't make them in the first place.
Also you need to decide who we're all blaming, Rooney or Zlatan. You've now said we're solely blaming both.
With regards to your theory about posters criticising Zlatan purely because they're "Martial fanboys." Well that doesn't belong in this thread but obviously I don't agree.
You might have forgot but we've had a very similar conversation in the Rooney thread:
If you can't find a single example to back up these claims I personally wouldn't make them in the first place.
Also you need to decide who we're all blaming, Rooney or Zlatan. You've now said we're solely blaming both.
With regards to your theory about posters criticising Zlatan purely because they're "Martial fanboys." Well that doesn't belong in this thread but obviously I don't agree.
lolExcluding pens:
Costa - 23 games - 15 goals - 29 chances created
Kane - 20 starts - 10 goals - 27 chances created
Ibrahimovic - 24 starts - 14 goals - 43 chances created
Yeah I don't think that's the case at all in fairness, but plenty of posters do criticise Zlatan because they prefer a different kind of speedy striker, no doubt.
I'm not, people are saying he's not good enough for a team that wants to challenge, no amount of spin will change that. It is however blindingly obvious that as a lone striker, he has done his job as well as anyone else in the league and that we would be challenging now if Martial and Miki had been playing as well as Ali, Pedro, Hazard, etc etc.
Excluding pens:
Costa - 23 games - 15 goals - 29 chances created
Kane - 20 starts - 10 goals - 27 chances created
Ibrahimovic - 24 starts - 14 goals - 43 chances created
As mentioned earleir @Dobbs, the huge difference with United and the rest of the top 5 is the output of our other forwards. That's where the frustration arises for myself, @Janson @Cassidy etc; plenty of posters claim that despite us being just 2 points off 2nd and despite all evidence to the contrary, that Zlatan is a big reason that we are not challenging now and that we cannot challenge whilst he is in the team.
Now if you just claim you prefer a different type of forward, that's fine, but posters don't need to start claiming untruths. I can say that I also prefer a Suarez-type forward, but Mourinho doesn't play with that type of striker and whilst he is our manager, a season like Zlatan's is brilliant for us from our Mourinho lone-forward.
Yes that is what three posters have said and actually I also disagree with them. I'm with you on that. There's no need though to turn that into something else. Nobody is saying he's the ONLY reason we're 6th. Come on you know this. Let's not allow this thread to go full Rooney.
No, I agree, haven't seen anyone say he's the only reason we're in 6th (soon to be 2nd
).I'm not a big Zlatan fan but he has done ok for us this season and he probably helps bring confidence to the team.My main issue though is that for a 35 yr old, he is never taken off or rested,it's like he has something in his contract that says he must play when he is fit.I would not mind him here next season as well but he has to be rotated like everyone else.
In the exchange we had about Rooney I admited I wasn't sure if most thought exactly everything would fall into place but I sure remember quite a bit of these
when they were posting there lineups without Rooney, are you gonna make me look up those as well?
This conversation wasn't even that long ago, were you seriously expecting me to go that far back looking for posts to prove something to you? Sorry but I'm just not bothered.What has criticizing Rooney have anything with what I said about Ibra? Rooney hasn't been a starter for months. At the time, yes Rooney was holding us back which was warranted, but the bashing was way over the top, just like with Ibra now.
If you don't believe me regarding Martials fanboys being bitter and hateful against Ibra, go look at their posts in the Martial thread. Not saying everyone who has something negative to say against Zlatan but the ones that are way over the top.
Also you said the wingers are in fact judged as well. Martial who's supposed to be our best winger, who was expected to bring goals more than any other winger in the team has been nowhere to be seen and get's treated on here like he's Messi or something. A decent performance from him gets hailed as something spectacular and then people get outraged when he gets dropped next game.
It's all to do with Mourinho's system though, we simply don't have another striker that fit his lone-striker mould. Whatever happens in the summer I fully expect him to bring in another forward in that mould.
I'm not sure that's a good enough excuse though,even in games that we have been 2 or 3 nil up,he has refused to take him off,Rashford,Martial or even Rooney can all do a good enough job
People seriously complaining about Zlatan? He is the least of our concerns. None of our other players have been at his level this season and without his goals we would be massively inferior. But I guess people need something to complain about...
Why take him off when he has a chance to bag more goals though? Why are people so desperate for him to be subbed?
To be fair Dobbs asked you to quote people who said Ibra is the sole reason we are not higher up the league this season. I said we will not challenge for the league next year with him as our first choice striker.
Plus the second part of my post you bolded is a fact, he is statistically the most wasteful top striker in the Premier League (stats from last week).
Sanchez 85 shots, 15 goals
Lukaku 62 shots, 15 goals
Costa 68 shots, 15 goals
Ibrahimovic 95 shots, 15 goals
Kane 57 shots, 14 goals
Defoe 62 shots, 14 goals
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...e-shots-2016-17-January-so-far-sportgalleries
Yes yes I know, he should have scored 30 league goals by now, any of those other strikers playing at United this season would've done, I get it @stevoc
You shoud defo remove Kane & Defoe's penos though if you want the list to be taken seriously.
Yeah those are also both things i never actually said mate.
Disregard those two if it makes you feel better.
Erm....
stevoc said:
No no it's true, Sanchez & Zlatan are too "wasteful" and your stats prove it; both sides would be better off if they had Kane or Lukaku up top for sure.
Ronaldo is the most "wasteful" player in the World right? Madrid should have upgraded to Kane a couple of years back, imagine where they'd be now.
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Having a little imaginary conversation with yourself are you mate?
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