[Cassidy]

The usual suspects: Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Griezmann, Lewandowski, Aubameyang, Neymar. Diego Costa in with a shout. I don't think Ibrahimovich belongs in that list anymore. Still a very good striker, but should we get an opportunity to sign for example Griezmann it should be a no brainer.

He belongs in that list, especially if Neymar is in there based on this season. Ibra is still a top quality striker for me. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at someone else in the summer.
Griezmann isn't even an out and out striker either.

 

[Cassidy]

Ok sorry. He is on par with Messi and Arry couldn't tie his laces.

Do you think United would be considerably worse off if the 2 were swapped? genuine question

Hes better than Harry Kane atm tbh. All round hes currently a better player. I think we would be worse off. Ibra is actually creating a lot for us, especially earlier in the season when none of the creative players were offering much. I don't think Kane would have been able to do the same.

Granted though his finishing (Ibra) hasn't been of the top standard this season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ok sorry. He is on par with Messi and Arry couldn't tie his laces.

Do you think United would be considerably worse off if the 2 were swapped? genuine question

Fair enough Stacks if Messi is the level of elite we're comparing him to. In that case, probably only 2-3 other players in history match up.

He's certainly still a much better player than Harry Kane.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The usual suspects: Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Griezmann, Lewandowski, Aubameyang, Neymar. Diego Costa in with a shout. I don't think Ibrahimovich belongs in that list anymore. Still a very good striker, but should we get an opportunity to sign for example Griezmann it should be a no brainer.

He's as good as all the bolded.

 

[Boycott]

Zlatan's an awesome player and doing a fine at the moment. It's a shame he wasn't a few years younger. Nonetheless I understand other posters opinions that we should have one eye on the future and that includes having a younger, more dynamic and versatile forward line.

The only downside with him is he wants a lot of touches and obviously isn't going to move around the pitch with and without the ball fast enough - he's not going to disorganise the opponents back four the way Martial can. The plus-side of Zlatan - the goals, the leadership and power make up for it but you will get games when the opponents are like a wall so he is nullified. However in those instances other players have to stand up and deliver - which they haven't really.

Ultimately the future is about fast, versatile players who are far harder to track than a big man - no matter how technically gifted Zlatan is - but lets enjoy him while he's here.

 

[Cassidy]

Zlatan's an awesome player and doing a fine at the moment. It's a shame he wasn't a few years younger. Nonetheless I understand other posters opinions that we should have one eye on the future and that includes having a younger, more dynamic and versatile forward line.

The only downside with him is he wants a lot of touches and obviously isn't going to move around the pitch with and without the ball fast enough - he's not going to disorganise the opponents back four the way Martial can. The plus-side of Zlatan - the goals, the leadership and power make up for it but you will get games when the opponents are like a wall so he is nullified. However in those instances other players have to stand up and deliver - which they haven't really.

Ultimately the future is about fast, versatile players who are far harder to track than a big man - no matter how technically gifted Zlatan is - but lets enjoy him while he's here.

Quite the contrary, him dropping deep and runners going in behind, and him joining in late is exactly what is disorganising back fours. We create a lot of chances exactly for these reasons. His movement and hold up play is much better than Martials atm

EDIT: The real issue this season has been his erratic finishing. He should have 30 goals easily already all comps this season.

 

[Ainu]

He belongs in that list, especially if Neymar is in there based on this season. Ibra is still a top quality striker for me. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at someone else in the summer.
Griezmann isn't even an out and out striker either.

Fair enough I haven't seen enough of Neymar this season, just considered his general level in previous seasons and his age. I think Zlatan is just a below those players and not likely to maintain his current level for a very long time considering his age, but if you think otherwise I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. As for that last bit, I don't like to get caught up in exact positions and roles, they're forwards and that's good enough for me.

 

[Cassidy]

Fair enough I haven't seen enough of Neymar this season, just considered his general level in previous seasons and his age. I think Zlatan is just a below those players and not likely to maintain his current level for a very long time considering his age, but if you think otherwise I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. As for that last bit, I don't like to get caught up in exact positions and roles, they're forwards and that's good enough for me.

This part I agree with, in my post I do say we should be looking for a replacement. However for me in terms of strikers in the world right now, he is up there with the very best even at his age.

 

[Bwuk]

For everyone who seems desperate to replace Zlatan with Griezmann - is Griezmann as reliable a goal threat as Zlatan?

 

[Kamprad]

It is really tough to say what level he is on playing in a new league. Last season he was definitely in that top tier. I think he'll play much better this second half of the season. If the team play better offensively, and I think they will, Zlatan could easily be the best forward in the league.

 

[Cassidy]

For everyone who seems desperate to replace Zlatan with Griezmann - is Griezmann as reliable a goal threat as Zlatan?

Not playing up top on his own, but he has been a reliable goal threat over the 2/3 seasons. I hope we have both next season tbh. Or if we replace Zlatan its with Griezmann and another.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Except when Rooney was playing as a striker he had about 2 goals in the league by Christmas and Zlatan is nearing 20 so there's no comparison at all.

Like someone stated I'm not comparing both players so I don't know what you're on about, Zlatan is obviously much better. It's the excuses when he has a shit game that's very similar, and posters frothing in the mouth whenever someone has the guts to actually think Zlatan has been poor. People had been suggesting Rooney wasn't good enough since the Moyes season where he was still scoring and supposedly our 'best' player but such opinions where largely scoffed like some of you are doing here. Even my posts in this thread are feeling eerily similar to my Rooney posts, I'm almost expecting @nick2004 to quote me with a dozen green smileys

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

For everyone who seems desperate to replace Zlatan with Griezmann - is Griezmann as reliable a goal threat as Zlatan?

A better question is if these posters have ever seen a Mourinho side before? He's gonna play with a Zlatan-esque striker and people are kidding themselves if they think he's gonna suddenly play someone like Griezmann as a forward every week.

 

[Dobbs]

Laughable. Who then is classed as elite?

I can understand you saying he's better than Kane, I'd probably agree. However him not being elite is hardly "laughable."

You talk as if he's battering everyone in the scoring charts. He's come to England and is on par with the other good strikers in the country. A bunch of players who themselves aren't particularly brilliant.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Like someone stated I'm not comparing both players so I don't know what you're on about, Zlatan is obviously much better. It's the excuses when he has a shit game that's very similar, and posters frothing in the mouth whenever someone has the guts to actually think Zlatan has been poor. People had been suggesting Rooney wasn't good enough since the Moyes season where he was still scoring and supposedly our 'best' player but such opinions where largely scoffed like some of you are doing here. Even my posts in this thread are feeling eerily similar to my Rooney posts, I'm almost expecting @nick2004 to quote me with a dozen green smileys

But there you go, doing exactly that. Rooney was a fecking disaster, every single stat backed that up so defending him was beyond stupid at times @fellaini's barber, Zlatan on the other hand has torn it up since joining a new team/league so how the hell does scoffing at Rooney criticism during those season compare with scoffing at Zlatan criticism now?

I mean, feck me, according to f365 he created 6 chances at the weekend and has been absolutely canned by a load of you on here, was Rooney creating like that during the time you mention?

 

[Stacks]

Hes better than Harry Kane atm tbh. All round hes currently a better player. I think we would be worse off. Ibra is actually creating a lot for us, especially earlier in the season when none of the creative players were offering much. I don't think Kane would have been able to do the same.

Granted though his finishing (Ibra) hasn't been of the top standard this season.

Indeed he is a more rounded player. If take my Red tinted glasses off, they offer different things. It depends what you value most I guess. Kane has the energy to lead from the front harassing defenders.
according to our friends over at squawka, Kane has 14 league goals from 57 shots (38 inside the box), Zlatan has 15 goals league from 103 shots (72 inside the box). Kane is approximately twice as efficient as Zlatan (requiring half as many shots to score the same) but offers very little in the creative department so it depends on whether you want your striker to be more clinical, or offer a bit of creative aspect to the side?

 

[RedMaestro]

Would a 35yr old Zlatan be starting for Chelsea or other top sides across Europe? the answer is no, so we do need to think about whether we are content with that situation despite acknowledging he has done alot for us this season. It is about looking at the bigger picture.

Yes! At least if there weren't better choices. So Chelsea would be a no, because of Costa but top clubs would love to have Ibra. I'm amazed of the fact that people have very strange critique against him.

He not only has to score every chance he gets in every game, his passes must be perfect so he has to have a lot of assists so he's not allowed to make mistakes, he must constantly run up and down even though it wouldn't change much, he has to be fast, even though he makes up for it by reading the game well and knowing where to position himself on the pitch, he is not allowed to have off days.

Because he is old, he shouldn't be a starter and give his spot to a teenager (despite the young players having a lot to learn and aren't even as good as him with the things he does and what the Mourinho wants a #9 to do - for instance at hold up and link up play, with scoring a high number of goals - at least something Ibra has proved, the others not so much). He is assumed to be selfish and egotistical despite most of his former teammates and managers have all mentioned the opposite.

This criticism is strange in my opinion. Would almost be like people complaining about Messi not being a good target player, despite being fantastic at most other things. Oh, someone mentioned Ibra and Pogba can't both be "top dog" - isn't it obvious that Pogba looks up to Ibra and admires him and wants to learn from him? Besides, Ibra has fought hard to earn this, Ajax was a tough experience for him where he had a lot to learn (a bit like what Mourinho wants Martial to do), at Juventus it was Trezeguet who was number one but Ibra wasn't shy and worked hard. With Capello he started to become the great striker he is today and has never stopped to improve over the years.

And why would Ibra leave if Griezmann arrives? If anything that would make him want to stay even more. If people have forgotten, he likes and wants to win. The better the players are, the bigger the chance to win.

Hope it's understood that I'm not "addressing" Raees, but I thought I'd avoid making a lot of posts.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Indeed he is a more rounded player. If take my Red tinted glasses off, they offer different things. It depends what you value most I guess. Kane has the energy to lead from the front harassing defenders.
according to our friends over at squawka, Kane has 14 league goals from 57 shots (38 inside the box), Zlatan has 15 goals league from 103 shots (72 inside the box). Kane is approximately twice as efficient as Zlatan (requiring half as many shots to score the same) but offers very little in the creative department so it depends on whether you want your striker to be more clinical, or offer a bit of creative aspect to the side?

6 months is just too small a sample size imo to claim anything of the sort, what are their respective stats for the previous 2 seasons @Stacks?

Keane actually has 10 PL goals if you remove the pens, Zlatan 14. Also worth considering here.

Your mates at Squawka have Zlatan down as clearly the better all round player this season fwiw.

 

[roonster09]

Indeed he is a more rounded player. If take my Red tinted glasses off, they offer different things. It depends what you value most I guess. Kane has the energy to lead from the front harassing defenders.
according to our friends over at squawka, Kane has 14 league goals from 57 shots (38 inside the box), Zlatan has 15 goals league from 103 shots (72 inside the box). Kane is approximately twice as efficient as Zlatan (requiring half as many shots to score the same) but offers very little in the creative department so it depends on whether you want your striker to be more clinical, or offer a bit of creative aspect to the side?

Kane scored 4 from penalties whereas Ibrahimovic scored 1. So 10 league goals in 57 shots and 14 goals from 103 shots for Zlatan.

 

[roonster09]

Its not that I don't appreciate him. I think you'll find many post of mines which have spoken about my astonishment for what he is achieving for us considering his age and even taking that out of the equation, he is clearly a key player for us that season.

That said, my criticism hasn't been with Zlatan directly, it is more the fact, we do need someone younger and at their peak, someone whose performance levels are high throughout the entire game and can finish more clinically. It is not a slight on Zlatan, who at 35 is the best forward we have had since RVP.. but not resting him, or taking him out the side when he isn't at the races, and not having a better younger forward at his peak up top is the difference being being a top 4 contender and being a title contender.

He is doing a good job for a 9, for his age he is doing a stellar job.. but United need the very best in that role and someone at his peak. It is not being nasty or unappreciative of Zlatan, its just stating the facts.

Would a 35yr old Zlatan be starting for Chelsea or other top sides across Europe? the answer is no, so we do need to think about whether we are content with that situation despite acknowledging he has done alot for us this season. It is about looking at the bigger picture.

I don't know whether Zlatan will start for Chelsea or not but the striker they play regularly didn't have a shot on target in 180 plus mins in the league.

 

[RedMaestro]

Zlatan's an awesome player and doing a fine at the moment. It's a shame he wasn't a few years younger. Nonetheless I understand other posters opinions that we should have one eye on the future and that includes having a younger, more dynamic and versatile forward line.

The only downside with him is he wants a lot of touches and obviously isn't going to move around the pitch with and without the ball fast enough - he's not going to disorganise the opponents back four the way Martial can. The plus-side of Zlatan - the goals, the leadership and power make up for it but you will get games when the opponents are like a wall so he is nullified. However in those instances other players have to stand up and deliver - which they haven't really.

Ultimately the future is about fast, versatile players who are far harder to track than a big man - no matter how technically gifted Zlatan is - but lets enjoy him while he's here.

Does speed help when the opponets are parking the bus?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Kane scored 4 from penalties whereas Ibrahimovic scored 1. So 10 league goals in 57 shots and 14 goals from 103 shots for Zlatan.

@Stacks should also, as mentioned, expand his criteria if he gonna say "conclusively" who is the more efficient striker, concluding what he posted after just half a PL season when comparing a guy in a settled club and league to a guy in a new side/new league is odd to say the least.

Fwiw, last season Kane took 124 shots and scored 25. Zlatan took 134 and scored 38.

The previous season Kane took 81 shots to score 21, Zlatan took 70 to score 19.

 

[RedMaestro]

Like someone stated I'm not comparing both players so I don't know what you're on about, Zlatan is obviously much better. It's the excuses when he has a shit game that's very similar, and posters frothing in the mouth whenever someone has the guts to actually think Zlatan has been poor. People had been suggesting Rooney wasn't good enough since the Moyes season where he was still scoring and supposedly our 'best' player but such opinions where largely scoffed like some of you are doing here. Even my posts in this thread are feeling eerily similar to my Rooney posts, I'm almost expecting @nick2004 to quote me with a dozen green smileys

Do you think people "defend" Ibra for the sake of it? Don't you think that some do this because a few in here claim that he's useless and shouldn't even play when having an off day - this despite him having a pretty good start his first season (20 goals, 7 assists) and no player being close to this the last couple of years.

The reason he's never gets subbed off, in my opinion, is the fact that he's good at holding the ball (forcing the opponents no to relax) and him taking care of free kicks and corners with headers when the opponents get these.

So yes, you can and should be critical when he deserves it but it should be reasonable...

 

[fellaini's barber]

But there you go, doing exactly that. Rooney was a fecking disaster, every single stat backed that up so defending him was beyond stupid at times @fellaini's barber, Zlatan on the other hand has torn it up since joining a new team/league so how the hell does scoffing at Rooney criticism during those season compare with scoffing at Zlatan criticism now?

I mean, feck me, according to f365 he created 6 chances at the weekend and has been absolutely canned by a load of you on here, was Rooney creating like that during the time you mention?

Good looking stats were being pulled out for Rooney during the Moyes season too as he was still involved in our few goals and assists that horrid season. People are simply stating that Zlatan had a bad game yesterday and some other days and maybe is not good enough to challenge for the league title, its a valid criticism that doesn't need to be scoffed at

 

[Raees]

I don't know whether Zlatan will start for Chelsea or not but the striker they play regularly didn't have a shot on target in 180 plus mins in the league.

Costa?

Zlatan would play second fiddle to him at this age.

And why would Ibra leave if Griezmann arrives? If anything that would make him want to stay even more. If people have forgotten, he likes and wants to win. The better the players are, the bigger the chance to win.

@RedMaestro

I don't want Zlatan to leave and am sure he has lots to give the club. I even think he can and should start games next year (home games ideally) and with Griezmann as a second striker. What I have said is that having him as our only option up front and as a de facto number 9 without no challengers is not a healthy position to be in if we want to be the best club in England and in Europe.

Right here right now, for this season, it has been a good option but by no means perfect because his overall performance level during 90 minutes, can go to a really bad level and we start to struggle big time in stretching the opposition and then once he is fine again, we are okay.

Now I get that it seems harsh that I am expecting him to be close to perfect for 90 minutes, but no offence at a club like Manchester United.. you can't afford for an attacker to completely have a shocking bottom level as a player for swathes of the game.. even if he isn't on it, we still need a certain level of performance up top for the side to function properly as an attacking unit.

The current side is heavily dependent on Zlatan and he's doing a good job, but what we need is a top tier striker at his peak doing an amazing job.. a guy who runs the show up front and runs the opposition ragged. We need that, we need a Luis Suarez type player up top to electrify our attack and take us to that next level.

Those draws will be converted into wins and built on the good foundation we seem to have now as a side, we will be up there for the title. We need more pace, penetration and energy up front.. for me that is undeniable and yes Zlatan can still have a role and start certain games, but the way we are using him now is not healthy in the long term.

Lets not forget that Rooney is the prime example of judging a striker wrongly by purely looking at his goals/assists, which he was still able to keep up with while his game had gone to pieces. Now Zlatan is not that bad, but his average performance level over 90 minutes is poorer than Suarez, Aguero (at his peak), Lewandowski, Sanchez, Costa, Firmino.. these guys still give you something even if their finishing ability is off, heck younger Zlatan would do that too but right now he's more a highlights player and can string a good 20-30 minutes together but not entire games often enough. his goals and assists are disguising that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Good looking stats were being pulled out for Rooney during the Moyes season too as he was still involved in our few goals and assists that horrid season. People are simply stating that Zlatan had a bad game yesterday and some other days and maybe is not good enough to challenge for the league title, its a valid criticism that doesn't need to be scoffed at

The red... not remotely close to Zlatan stats though, not remotely!

It's really not valid at all. Costa was pretty shite in these past few games, as he was for most of last season. Aguero is having a tough time lately, Kane has been wank in every big game this season pretty much, Lukaku really should have won 3 more points for Everton this weekend but fluffed an easy chance. It's pure madness to consider Zlatan not good enough at this point, we need to improve certain things before a title challenge but I am baffled as to how anyone can think the striker with 20 goals and 7 assists is the problem.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We need that, we need a Luis Suarez type player up top to electrify our attack and take us to that next level.

Stating the obvious @Raees ? Every club, including Real Madrid and Bayern need a "Luis Suarez type player" to take them to the next level.

 

[Cassidy]

Good looking stats were being pulled out for Rooney during the Moyes season too as he was still involved in our few goals and assists that horrid season. People are simply stating that Zlatan had a bad game yesterday and some other days and maybe is not good enough to challenge for the league title, its a valid criticism that doesn't need to be scoffed at

He one of the top scorers in the league this season, whilst being one of our best creators too. I think its quite clear the issue lies elsewhere within the squad/team as to why we're not challenging for the title this season.

All the striker at the other clubs also have off days. Costa included but Chelsea are top because other players also contribute form within the squad.

 

[Roberto420]

Does speed help when the opponets are parking the bus?

no you need player that cant/don't run
obviously it helps

 

[Raees]

Stating the obvious @Raees ? Every club, including Real Madrid and Bayern need a "Luis Suarez type player" to take them to the next level.

Bayern? they have Lewandowski.. they don't need Suarez. Real have an energetic presence in Benzema up top and flanked by two top 5 wingers in the world.. so there is energy movement, electricity about that attack.

Of course every side could and would want a Suarez, but our attack is definitely more one paced than our rivals. Look at the speed at which City play, speed/precision at which Chelsea play when they're in the mood or Liverpool with that front three.

United definitely lag behind in that respect. We are getting there, but just because getting the next Luis Suarez is a pipe dream, doesn't mean we should sit there and give up. We need that forward who gives us an edge over our rivals.

I've seen us in games where Zlatan makes nothing stick for the first 20 minutes, and we look all over the place before we settle down and play our football and it happens far too often.. hence the draws earlier in the season. It isn't good enough for a title challenging side.

It is hopefully good enough for a top 4 side. But we have bigger ambitions than that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

no you need player that cant/don't run
obviously it helps

Against a parked bus... oh god no, give me a 36 year old Teddy Sherringham any day over a Andrew Cole when against that; or a Bergkamp instead of a Aubameyang.

 

[Boycott]

Does speed help when the opponets are parking the bus?

Yes.

Speed [and skill] makes it hard for opponents to stay compact as they are dragged out of position.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bayern? they have Lewandowski.. they don't need Suarez. Real have an energetic presence in Benzema up top and flanked by two top 5 wingers in the world.. so there is energy movement, electricity about that attack.

Zlatan is clearly better than Benzema and in that you mentioned what our real problem has been this season, the players flanking him.

Bayern would be much better with Suarez than Lewandowski.

 

[Cassidy]

Zlatan is clearly better than Benzema and in that you mentioned what our real problem has been this season, the players flanking him.

Bayern would be much better with Suarez than Lewandowski.

I find it odd that people are not seeing this.

 

[RedMaestro]

@Raees But the problem is that there aren't that many strikers out there that would fit Mourinho's "wishes". So if it's just going to be a young striker who lacks a lot of things (that's not ready to "lead the line") then Ibra is still the best choice, despite being "too old". But if a world class striker would be available then it's not really even a question - the players has to join.

 

[Roberto420]

Against a parked bus... oh god no, give me a 36 year old Teddy Sherringham any day over a Andrew Cole when against that; or a Bergkamp instead of a Aubameyang.

You are right in a way but I think you need a mixture of pace and brains to unlock a stubborn defence

 

[Cassidy]

You are right in a way but I think you need a mixture of pace and brains to unlock a stubborn defence

Mhiki and Martial have pace, Zlatan and Mhiki have brains.
The main issue this season has been the form of Mhiki and Martial

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Mhiki and Martial have pace, Zlatan and Mhiki have brains.
The main issue this season has been the form of Mhiki and Martial

Agreed. Baffled that so many fail to notice this.

The difference between United & Chelsea this season isn't the form of our main striker.

United:
Zlatan 15
Mata 6
Pogba 4

Chelsea:
Costa 15
Hazard 10
Pedro 6

Spurs:
Kane 14
Ali 11
Heung-min 7

Liverpool:
Mane 11
Firmino 9
Lallana 7
Coutinho 6


The assists table just compounds that point with Wayne bloody Rooney as our top assister this term. http://www.espnfc.com/english-premier-league/23/statistics/assists

 

[Devil may care]

Player fanboy cults are an odd thing, I've got no issues with Ibra staying for another season but I do worry about the fact he starts nearly every game and is never subbed. We face different challenges against different teams, what he brings to the table wont always be the answer but we never try a different option, the others are shuffled around behind him instead. Part of this is because I don't think Jose sees Rashford as a #9, at least not his #9, and therefore he doesn't feel he has an option on the bench to utilize in Ibra's place.

 

[Dobbs]

I find it odd that people are not seeing this.

It's even more odd that you haven't seen the nigh on constant complaints regarding the wings.

I doubt there's a fan in here happy with the wide positions thus far.