[Jev]

He doesn't deserve the nomination in my opinion.

It's not a criticism, he's been very good and I'm more than happy with him. But I've generally been maybe slightly underwhelmed by his performance outside of the box.

At PSG he was a playmaker and often the best player on the pitch. Here he has had quite a few indifferent games. He's compensated with goals, which has been vital for us. But one of the six best players in the league? Not for me.

 

[TwoSheds]

He doesn't deserve the nomination in my opinion.

It's not a criticism, he's been very good and I'm more than happy with him. But I've generally been maybe slightly underwhelmed by his performance outside of the box.

At PSG he was a playmaker and often the best player on the pitch. Here he has had quite a few indifferent games. He's compensated with goals, which has been vital for us. But one of the six best players in the league? Not for me.

Has anyone stood out in every game though? Kane underwhelmed for much of the time whilst still scoring the odd goal imo, Lukaku is often a bit hit and miss but bangs them in, Hazard is inconsistent, Sanchez plays for Arsenal...

Good competitive league season but i wouldn't say anyone's stood out consistently except possibly Kanté.

 

[Jev]

Has anyone stood out in every game though? Kane underwhelmed for much of the time whilst still scoring the odd goal imo, Lukaku is often a bit hit and miss but bangs them in, Hazard is inconsistent, Sanchez plays for Arsenal...

Good competitive league season but i wouldn't say anyone's stood out consistently except possibly Kanté.

Maybe not. To be honest I don't watch much outside of United so can't really compare but when I compare to earlier years, Zlatan just seems to fall short.

Off the top of my head I would point to Eriksen, Alli, Kane, Hazard, Mane, Kante and Defoe, pushing Zlatan out of the top 6.

 

[RedMaestro]

He doesn't deserve the nomination in my opinion.

It's not a criticism, he's been very good and I'm more than happy with him. But I've generally been maybe slightly underwhelmed by his performance outside of the box.

At PSG he was a playmaker and often the best player on the pitch. Here he has had quite a few indifferent games. He's compensated with goals, which has been vital for us. But one of the six best players in the league? Not for me.

He's tried the 'playmaking role' but every time he has found someone in a good position, the ball has failed to get in.

 

[MILLHILLMANC]

He's tried the 'playmaking role' but every time he has found someone in a good position, the ball has failed to get in.

if jose played rashford ahead of him then I think he would have made more of an impact as a playmaker. The formation makes it very difficult for him

 

[K2K]

Get in.

Well deserved.

He has shattered this stupid myth about players struggling when joining the premier league. Proper class shines everywhere more often than not.

 

[RedMaestro]

if jose played rashford ahead of him then I think he would have made more of an impact as a playmaker. The formation makes it very difficult for him

4-4-2 would have been interesting...

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

"I came here at 35, and people thought I was in a wheelchair" Love this guy.

 

[Dobbs]

Get in.

Well deserved.

He has shattered this stupid myth about players struggling when joining the premier league. Proper class shines everywhere more often than not.

What about those players who struggle when joining the Premier league?

 

[balaks]

What about those players who struggle when joining the Premier league?

'Apart from those players who struggle when joining the Premier League, Zlatan has shattered this stupid myth about players struggling when joining the Premier League'

 

[K2K]

What about those players who struggle when joining the Premier league?

Get in.

Well deserved.

He has shattered this stupid myth about players struggling when joining the premier league. Proper class shines everywhere more often than not.

It helps to read

 

[Dobbs]

It helps to read

I'm still struggling to see what this myth is that's been shattered by one player having a good season.

 

[K2K]

I'm still struggling to see what this myth is that's been shattered by one player having a good season.

I will explain it simply for you.

There is a myth that players coming from supposedly weaker leagues struggle when joining the big bad premier league.

Kante, Martial and now Zlatan have shown that this isnt true. Zlatan shatters that especially considering his age when coming into this league.

This shows that this myth isnt true and it all depends on the player. Its more of a case that if anyone still believes in that myth after this season especially, they need their head checked.

 

[VP89]

I will explain it simply for you.

There is a myth that players coming from supposedly weaker leagues struggle when joining the big bad premier league.

Kante, Martial and now Zlatan have shown that this isnt true. Zlatan shatters that especially considering his age when coming into this league.

This shows that this myth isnt true and it all depends on the player. Its more of a case that if anyone still believes in that myth after this season especially, they need their head checked.

I don't think Martial is an example you should be using.

 

[Adebesi]

Has anyone ever said everyone joining from weaker leagues struggles? Surely everyone would say its something that can happen sometimes.

I think its a myth that there's a myth.

 

[MILLHILLMANC]

4-4-2 would have been interesting...

we'd be winning the league or at least 2nd..the squad is good enough. so many apologists here for negative football.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I will explain it simply for you.

There is a myth that players coming from supposedly weaker leagues struggle when joining the big bad premier league.

Kante, Martial and now Zlatan have shown that this isnt true. Zlatan shatters that especially considering his age when coming into this league.

This shows that this myth isnt true and it all depends on the player. Its more of a case that if anyone still believes in that myth after this season especially, they need their head checked.

Zlatan's goals per game ratio in the PL is more than 50% less than it was at PSG last season.

 

[Dobbs]

I will explain it simply for you.

There is a myth that players coming from supposedly weaker leagues struggle when joining the big bad premier league.

Kante, Martial and now Zlatan have shown that this isnt true. Zlatan shatters that especially considering his age when coming into this league.

This shows that this myth isnt true and it all depends on the player. Its more of a case that if anyone still believes in that myth after this season especially, they need their head checked.

Well then in a big circle back to my original point, what about all the players who do struggle to initially adapt and are on record as saying so?

So that doesn't make sense unless you're suggesting there's an argument out there that says ALL players struggle in their first year. That argument obviously doesn't exist.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

'Apart from those players who struggle when joining the Premier League, Zlatan has shattered this stupid myth about players struggling when joining the Premier League'

Haha, it's kinda like using the exception and spinning it to sound like the rule.

'This snowy day in July has shattered the stupid myth that it never snows in July'.

 

[Attila]

I will explain it simply for you.

There is a myth that players coming from supposedly weaker leagues struggle when joining the big bad premier league.

Kante, Martial and now Zlatan have shown that this isnt true. Zlatan shatters that especially considering his age when coming into this league.

This shows that this myth isnt true and it all depends on the player. Its more of a case that if anyone still believes in that myth after this season especially, they need their head checked.

Could add Payet to that list

 

[Raoul]

Has anyone ever said everyone joining from weaker leagues struggles? Surely everyone would say its something that can happen sometimes.

I think its a myth that there's a myth.

Good players generally do well here irrespective of what league they came from.

 

[K2K]

I don't think Martial is an example you should be using.

Last season definitely.

Second syndrome aside.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Good players generally do well here irrespective of what league they came from.

This.

Although there are some notable exceptions -

ADM
Falcao - awful at Utd and Chelsea but then looks good again back at Monaco
Veron
Shev (came to the Prem just after that half a yard had gone and just couldn't match the rhythm of the PL)
Depay

And there's more, as a United fan I'm obviously more knowledgeable about our own transfers, but I'm sure some oppo fans could add more.

 

[K2K]

Zlatan's goals per game ratio in the PL is more than 50% less than it was at PSG last season.

I struggle to see your point.

He was playing for a team won the league by 31 points last season. He's playing for the 6th best side now.

My point was never that he scored as many goals as he did at PSG. It was that he's flourishing in this league too.

 

[shaggy]

I struggle to see your point.

He was playing for a team won the league by 31 points last season. He's playing for the 6th best side now.

My point was never that he scored as many goals as he did at PSG. It was that he's flourishing in this league too.

Did Zlatan miss as many chances for Psg last season as he has for us? Genuinely curious as I didn't follow it.

 

[K2K]

Well then in a big circle back to my original point, what about all the players who do struggle to initially adapt and are on record as saying so?

So that doesn't make sense unless you're suggesting there's an argument out there that says ALL players struggle in their first year. That argument obviously doesn't exist.

That doesn't prove that the English league is harder to adapt to either though.

At best it shows the difficulty of acclimatising to a new environment ( see Modric at Madrid for example).

My argument has never been against anyone claimed all players struggle in adapting to the EPL . That would be pointless .It's rather that players like Zlatan, Payet, Kante have disproven the arguments that players struggling has much to do with the toughness of the league but rather more plausible causes like the difficulty of going into a new environment. We see this difficulty in other leagues too.

It's an argument against fanboy arguments that fail to understand that correlation is not cause.

 

[K2K]

Did Zlatan miss as many chances for Psg last season as he has for us? Genuinely curious as I didn't follow it.

I'd be lying if I gave a definite answer.

But Zlatan has never been as clinical as someone like Ronaldo.

I think it looks much worse with us because we generally struggle to score goals.

 

[K2K]

Could add Payet to that list

Forgot about him.

Took to the league like a duck to water until he got tired of West Ham.

 

[RedMaestro]

Did Zlatan miss as many chances for Psg last season as he has for us? Genuinely curious as I didn't follow it.

You can see his stats from PSG here: http://www.ligue1.com/joueur/ibrahimovic-zlatan

 

[VP89]

Last season definitely.

Second syndrome aside.

But not this season, where he is struggling to adapt to the physical demands of the league and make an impact.

So yeah, bad example.

 

[K2K]

But not this season, where he is struggling to adapt to the physical demands of the league and make an impact.

So yeah, bad example.

But his struggles actually extend all the way back to Euro16 where he struggled to get a game.

They are many other reasons why he could be struggling :
He's had family problems, possibly affected by the shirt issue earlier in the season which might have left him feeling undervalued, possibly affected by a change in management with a manager that has shown less confidence in him than the previous one.

There are so many other reasons other than simply sayings it's because he is struggling with the physical demands of the league. He didn't struggle with this physicality last season and Ligue 1 is one of the most physical leagues in Europe.

It's such ill informed opinions which always seek to find ways to glorify leagues instead of realising that they are plenty of other factors at play which are problematic.

 

[Attila]

But not this season, where he is struggling to adapt to the physical demands of the league and make an impact.

So yeah, bad example.

How did the physical demands of the premier league change in one season for Martial?

 

[VP89]

But his struggles actually extend all the way back to Euro16 where he struggled to get a game.

They are many other reasons why he could be struggling :
He's had family problems, possibly affected by the shirt issue earlier in the season which might have left him feeling undervalued, possibly affected by a change in management with a manager that has shown less confidence in him than the previous one.

There are so many other reasons other than simply sayings it's because he is struggling with the physical demands of the league. He didn't struggle with this physicality last season and Ligue 1 is one of the most physical leagues in Europe.

It's such ill informed opinions which always seek to find ways to glorify leagues instead of realising that they are plenty of other factors at play which are problematic.

Ill informed opinions? You've taken a good season from Martial last year to conclude that he's not having a problem adapting to the league, ignoring he's been poor for us throughout this season. That's wrong whichever way you look at it. Alfonso Alves was having a belter of a debut season for Middlesborough and he went on to be rubbish in the next season and throughout his entire career.

I agree that there are other contributing factors, such as confidence or system or mentality, but you cannot ignore players pay a special attention to him this season and his work is cut out.

Back to the point though - Zlatan has done very well but he has not single handedly destroyed the notion that players from outside leagues struggle to adapt here (the same can be the case for moving from PL to other leagues).

People such as yourselves appear to believe a struggle to adapt means failing to make any form of impact during their time in England. That's not the case. Its simply a case of them not being able to hit full gear as easily as they did in leagues where they were more comfortable in.

Examples of ex united players players alone initially struggling to adapt in England include: Veron, Di Maria, Depay, Forlan, Pogba, Evra, Vidic, DDG. Now some of these players went on to become legends/settle into their potential from 2nd season onwards. Others just flopped full stop. But all of them struggled in their first season. Zlatan scoring in his first season doesn't take that away.

How did the physical demands of the premier league change in one season for Martial?

Players are paying more attention to him this year than last.

 

[Dobbs]

That doesn't prove that the English league is harder to adapt to either though.

At best it shows the difficulty of acclimatising to a new environment ( see Modric at Madrid for example).

My argument has never been against anyone claimed all players struggle in adapting to the EPL . That would be pointless .It's rather that players like Zlatan, Payet, Kante have disproven the arguments that players struggling has much to do with the toughness of the league but rather more plausible causes like the difficulty of going into a new environment. We see this difficulty in other leagues too.

It's an argument against fanboy arguments that fail to understand that correlation is not cause.

You've got numerous examples of the players themselves talking about the difficulties of adapting specifically to the EPL because of the pace etc. Not sure how much more confirmation is needed with that in mind.

 

[K2K]

Ill informed opinions? You've taken a good season from Martial last year to conclude that he's not having a problem adapting to the league, ignoring he's been poor for us throughout this season. That's wrong whichever way you look at it. Alfonso Alves was having a belter of a debut season for Middlesborough and he went on to be rubbish in the next season and throughout his entire career.

I agree that there are other contributing factors, such as confidence or system or mentality, but you cannot ignore players pay a special attention to him this season and his work is cut out.

Back to the point though - Zlatan has done very well but he has not single handedly destroyed the notion that players from outside leagues struggle to adapt here (the same can be the case for moving from PL to other leagues).

People such as yourselves appear to believe a struggle to adapt means failing to make any form of impact during their time in England. That's not the case. Its simply a case of them not being able to hit full gear as easily as they did in leagues where they were more comfortable in.

Examples of ex united players players alone initially struggling to adapt in England include: Veron, Di Maria, Depay, Forlan, Pogba, Evra, Vidic, DDG. Now some of these players went on to become legends/settle into their potential from 2nd season onwards. Others just flopped full stop. But all of them struggled in their first season. Zlatan scoring in his first season doesn't take that away.



Players are paying more attention to him this year than last.

That never happened.

Other two games against the Manchester sides(where got half of this Boro goal tally) he struggled here like he did for most of his post Dutch career.

 

[top1whoisman]

 

[K2K]

You've got numerous examples of the players themselves talking about the difficulties of adapting specifically to the EPL because of the pace etc. Not sure how much more confirmation is needed with that in mind.

You have multiple players saying it about various leagues.

Hence the main point I am making. There is nothing special about adapting to the English league.

What I can however agree is that joining a league with a vastly different style to one you are used to may cause problems for some players. Which is the crux of my argument

 

[dirkey]

He's played well this half in my opinion. Not had a lot to feed off, but winning some balls up there that he has no right to win.

 

[Sultan]

He's played well this half in my opinion. Not had a lot to feed off, but winning some balls up there that he has no right to win.

I thought he had an awful 45 minutes. Giving away so many balls.

 

[JB08]

I thought he was poor in the first half, which probably means he'll score in the second.