[Janson]

Thats debatable to say the least which is why you have people still arguing over their treatment to this day. Anyway this is not the Martial or Mkhitaryan thread so lets not derail it further.
As for Mourinho not rotating Zlatan its simply his preference because Rashford and Martial didn't do too badly last season and we were reasonably successful. So why does Mourinho refuse to use them in the smaller cups, particularly Rashford to maintain Zlatan's freshness for the more important league competition or even sub him off when we are comfortable?

Yeah it is debatable, and I agree we should take it elsewhere next time.

As for Zlatan, he has started rotating him lately. Earlier in the season, I think the grounds for having him on even in lesser cups was to have the starters getting as much game time as possible to make them gel.

There should be no excuse now though not to give Rashford more starts in cups. I believe we should be fine without Ibra in those kind of games.

 

[Attila]

Great assist

 

[Successful]

Caf rating so far: 6,2

 

[Eriku]

Great assist

?

 

[Raoul]

Presumably he means Ibra passed him the ball and then helped him again by obscuring the keeper's view.

 

[pocco]

No you can't. If he would have come to United back then he'd demolish the league completely. Why he failed in Barcelona is because pep didn't let him play his game like he wanted to. He couldn't do like he wanted outside the pitch either. Understandable because they had a certain Argentinian doing that. No dropping, no freekicks, no penalties, no playmaking. He was supposed to stay upfront. As I said before Zlatan need to be the star of the team to be good. He wasn't. He couldn't tell Messi to sit on the floor and watch the big players. Zlatan need that to feel confident himself.

My point is that having seen what he's about now on a consistent basis, i can understand why Pep wouldn't allow him to do any of those things.

 

[Eriku]

Presumably he means Ibra passed him the ball and then helped him again by obscuring the keeper's view.

I try really hard not to presume on here One would hope that's what he meant, though

 

[RedMaestro]

My point is that having seen what he's about now on a consistent basis, i can understand why Pep wouldn't allow him to do any of those things.

Do you mean Ibra has the same capacity now as when he was at Barcelona? Is he still at his peak?

 

[klayton88]

Quote I just saw.

"I'm sick of the drama between Mayweather & McGregor. It would be better for both of them to stop their antics & fight against me. Let's see how it goes, but the two [Mayweather & McGregor] will go straight to the hospital!"

 

[Kamprad]

Quote I just saw.

"I'm sick of the drama between Mayweather & McGregor. It would be better for both of them to stop their antics & fight against me. Let's see how it goes, but the two [Mayweather & McGregor] will go straight to the hospital!"

Very funny. Until you realise its mostly a way of defending his ego and the funnieness is just a disguise. He just never relaxes haha. Same with the comments to Pogba. Its never about being funny. Theres an underlying serious side of those comments. "When the lion relax, the cats come"

He shouldnt stay too long. Maybe only this season and then it's time to let Rashford, Pogba and Martial take over IMO. And stop with this leader bullshit. He's not. At most they can learn how to take care of their training and take the game serious. Because at that he is unmatched.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Very funny. Until you realise its mostly a way of defending his ego and the funnieness is just a disguise. He just never relaxes haha. Same with the comments to Pogba. Its never about being funny. Theres an underlying serious side of those comments. "When the lion relax, the cats come"

He shouldnt stay too long. Maybe only this season and then it's time to let Rashford, Pogba and Martial take over IMO. And stop with this leader bullshit. He's not. At most they can learn how to take care of their training and take the game serious. Because at that he is unmatched.

It's all about being funny if you have followed the guy during his career, he's on a constant piss take and that's why his teammates tend to adore him.

The bold is obviously just pure drivel, as is the idea that any of the players you mentioned are ready to lead the line for United.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just read that Costa has failed to even register a shot on target in his last 195 mins of action for Chelsea, he'd be getting savaged in here if he played for us

 

[Kamprad]

I agree they are not ready to lead the line and Zlatan and United are a perfect match atm.

Well, there's different ways of being a leader. He's good in taking the pressure off his teammates and they can learn and be inspired by his professionalism. But he won't let any of them grow past him and express their personality and game to their full potential. I don't think pogba will be the best he can be in Zlatans shadow. Or Martial.

 

[Grunge]

Dogshit for the second week in a row. Not in the right positions and giving it away for fun.

Really poor so far today, missed a couple of decent chances, given the ball away several times with sloppy passes, and repeatedly dropping too deep leaving the box empty - it'll never happen but I'd love to see Rashford playing through the middle in the 2nd half

He drops deep, someone rushes forward in the space he leaves behind and it disrupts the backline which creates more space for players to work with. It's not hard to see. What's the problem? It's how he plays

Atrocious first half. He's constantly giving the ball away through his brick wall first touch and his sloppy passing.
Give Rashford a chance @ #9 please.

Find it hard to understand what he does that makes him undroppable, particularly when the other forwards get hooked off at the drop of a hat. Very much a poor man's rvn

I find him really frustrating to watch. It's like knowing you can do a lot better and yet you're highly dependent on him at the same time. Broke down a lot of attacks but as the game wore on he was more sharper but his finishing is still too hit and miss for my liking. We definitely need a new forward in the summer. It will take us up a level.

His shooting technique can be quite atrocious at times for a player of his ability. The volley off Pogba's pass he attempted was nowhere near the goal, i think that's a few times he has missed those

Watch the game again lads and you'll see his movement off the ball & into space is brilliant as always. Didn't finish especially well today but there's a reason he scores as often as he does! It's called being in the right place at the right time. The two volleys he cracked over the bar would likely not have been read by the inexperienced Rashford or Martial.

What's irritating is not him having a bad game, is that Jose won't take him off. We were playing with 10 men for the larger part of the 2nd half. His legs looked gone and I don't see why we couldn't put on Rashford or slotted Martial into striker with Lingard on the wing.

I really don't understand people wanting him subbed off. He should play as much as possible. He is clearly good at managing himself..

Good answer, and no other forward is as effective when it comes to defending corners. Wasn't needed as much today but watch past games and count how many crosses he clears for us! He's our best defending forward when teams come at us in the final minutes trying to grab a goal. At 2 nil if Watford had snuck a goal from a set piece, it might have got nervy!

His hold up play has been fantastic. Created several chances. Been a bit unlucky himself in front of goal but overall very good contribution today.

Agreed!

People seem stunned that a 35 year old who general gets a goal every other week cruisers through a game where we've been comfortable from the opening minute. People using words like "disgraceful" are fecking laughable.

Agreed, well said!

Ibrahimovic will ALWAYS look to CREATE, to move the ball FORWARD any play the DIFFICULT pass. For those reasons, he's going to be guilty of losing possession more often than the player who shirks responsibility and takes the easy route out.
I only get frustrated when he's dispossessed needlessly on the ball.
But he's 35, playing in the Premier League and has scored 20 goals already. He's doing fine. He's great for us.

This ... and yes, frustrating at times but he brings so much to the table which includes being unpredictable.

Doesn't half waste chances, does he? Should've been on 30 goals already!

But he often makes those chances for himself when others can't see them coming!

Bolded statement says it all!

In the long run I think /hope we are benefiting because surely Rashford & Martial can't help but learn from his reading of the game? They will continue to get their chances up front but when they have, in the cup games so far for example, they all too often show their inexperience.

 

[3KDré]

Watch the game again lads and you'll see his movement off the ball & into space is brilliant as always. Didn't finish especially well today but there's a reason he scores as often as he does! It's called being in the right place at the right time. The two volleys he cracked over the bar would likely not have been read by the inexperienced Rashford or Martial...

I don't think you read my post properly.

 

[Grunge]

I don't think you read my post properly.

Sorry Vito ... I did and I agree with you entirely. Your post should have been lower in my reply within the posts that I think made sense!

 

[3KDré]

Sorry Vito ... I did and I agree with you entirely. Your post should have been lower in my reply within the posts that I think made sense!

No worries.

 

[Janson]

My point is that having seen what he's about now on a consistent basis, i can understand why Pep wouldn't allow him to do any of those things.

So why does Mourinho allow it? How about Capello and Ancelotti? Are they all infirior to the mighty Pep?

 

[Pexbo]

Very funny. Until you realise its mostly a way of defending his ego and the funnieness is just a disguise. He just never relaxes haha. Same with the comments to Pogba. Its never about being funny. Theres an underlying serious side of those comments. "When the lion relax, the cats come"

He shouldnt stay too long. Maybe only this season and then it's time to let Rashford, Pogba and Martial take over IMO. And stop with this leader bullshit. He's not. At most they can learn how to take care of their training and take the game serious. Because at that he is unmatched.

It's exactly the opposite of what you have said.

 

[Janson]

@Grunge Great post. Seeing all those comments compiled together makes you wonder about some posters understanding of the game.

And great analysis on Martials performance by the way.

 

[Janson]

I agree they are not ready to lead the line and Zlatan and United are a perfect match atm.

Well, there's different ways of being a leader. He's good in taking the pressure off his teammates and they can learn and be inspired by his professionalism. But he won't let any of them grow past him and express their personality and game to their full potential. I don't think pogba will be the best he can be in Zlatans shadow. Or Martial.

What are you on about, seriously? Care to elaborate on how he is holding them back?

 

[Kag]

People aren't pretending they watched Ibrahimovic give the ball away. It's no great conspiracy against him. Suggesting that he played well in the first half against Watford does his game a disservice, if anything.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

Age just starting to get the better of him perhaps.

I feel that's why he appears non committel on his future.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Age just starting to get the better of him perhaps.

Since what, 2 weeks ago?

 

[Wade3]

Since what, 2 weeks ago?

Eh, he's had poor games and a stretch of games where he simply couldn't put away easy chances.

That's not to say he hasn't had an excellent season for a guy his age. I didn't expect him to bag as many goals as he did and am very happy with his output (not just th me goals but also his hold-up play).

I also think his training regimen will have a very positive impact on the youngsters.

He is a unique and dominant vharavter but if you have a manager whom he respects, then you can only benefit from having such a guy on your team.

 

[Janson]

People aren't pretending they watched Ibrahimovic give the ball away. It's no great conspiracy against him. Suggesting that he played well in the first half against Watford does his game a disservice, if anything.

So what if he gave the ball away? He does it every game, but one of those passes he attempts will create a chance and it's worth it. How about his great movement of the ball? How come you only mention the negatives and conveniently forget that he was heavily involved in our second goal.

And dogshit against Leicester, that's laghuable.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Eh, he's had poor games and a stretch of games where he simply couldn't put away easy chances.

As pretty much every striker has during a season at whatever age.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So what if he gave the ball away? He does it every game, but one of those passes he attempts will create a chance and it's worth it. How about his great movement of the ball? How come you only mention the negatives and conveniently forget that he was heavily involved in our second goal.

The pass for the second goal was exactly the kind of first time pass that could easily end up being slated for "giving it away needlessly". He's a striker with a large creative burden, I don't want him to have an 85% pass completion.

 

[Kag]

So what if he gave the ball away? He does it every game, but one of those passes he attempts will create a chance and it's worth it. How about his great movement of the ball? How come you only mention the negatives and conveniently forget that he was heavily involved in our second goal.

And dogshit against Leicester, that's laghuable.

He gives the ball away, sometimes in dangerous positions, that lead to opposition counter attacks. It's an issue. For a player of his ability he should be taking better care of the ball. It's not necessarily when he tries something audacious either, moreso the basics. He was exactly the same, but worse, in the first half against Leicester. Posters that were watching the same things were in agreement at the time.

I've praised Ibrahimovic throughout this thread in the past, so there's nothing convenient about the criticism.

 

[sammsky1]

Seemed as though his body would not listen to his brain yesterday.

Signs of ageing which is not surprising given his age, but it's forgivable given his enormous contribution of goals so far this season.

 

[Paul Scholes]

What is the goal ratio (per shot) of Zlatan at Man Utd?

 

[ricky-romeo]

seems to have lost his long range shooting boots these days. used to watch him scoring screamers from 20-25 yards yet the last long range goal from ibra that i can remember was the first game away at Bournemouth.

anyway 20 goals from him. brilliant.

 

[Z_Wolf]

No striker in the world (including Messi) scores every chance he gets. Comments like 'He should be on 30 goals' are laughable. When is the last time a PL striker scored 30 goals at this stage of the season?

 

[Janson]

Edit

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No striker in the world (including Messi) scores every chance he gets. Comments like 'He should be on 30 goals' are laughable. When is the last time a PL striker scored 30 goals at this stage of the season?

It'll be like this in here with Zlatan every time he goes through a quieter scoring spell, I guess we just have to accept that now.

 

[Kamprad]

What are you on about, seriously? Care to elaborate on how he is holding them back?

First of all, its not as I'm saying I'm 100% sure this will happen. But there is a risk in my opinion some young players won't be able to flourish if Zlatan stays too long. He has got a big personality and takes a lot of room. And he can pretty harsh if someone threatens his position. That's how he works. For me, it comes down to how good he is. He is not a Roy Keane that can be an OK player but still lift the team with his mentality and presence on the pitch. He need to be number one.

Adrien Rabiot, Douglas Costa is examples of young players Zlatan has had problems with. Cavani is another example of a player that wasn't able to be as good as he could be with Zlatan in the team. In that case it's mostly because they play in the same position. Zlatan himself couldn't be the best he could be when playing with Barca with Messi in the team, because he couldn't express his personality and game like he wanted to. That's how it works. You have to let people express their game and personalities to flourish. If a young player have a big ego you have to let him express that. Zlatan wouldn't in my opinion.

Zlatan get along with nice players because they nicely let him be number one but if there come another ego that threatens his position there will be problems. Zlatan wouldn't come along with another young Zlatan for example.

I just have to say I like Ibra and I understand why he is like he is. He is, for me, one of three best players the world have seen the last decade. But I'm just being honest. The moment he becomes number two in the hierarchy it's time to let him go and let other players take room and place on and outside the pitch.

 

[Lawman]

Been brilliant but at times his age shows. Hoping he'll be here next season as he guarantees goals and we need to upgrade other positions first but looking forward to a mobile striker when he leaves.

 

[Bojan11]

He gives the ball away, sometimes in dangerous positions, that lead to opposition counter attacks. It's an issue. For a player of his ability he should be taking better care of the ball. It's not necessarily when he tries something audacious either, moreso the basics. He was exactly the same, but worse, in the first half against Leicester. Posters that were watching the same things were in agreement at the time.

I've praised Ibrahimovic throughout this thread in the past, so there's nothing convenient about the criticism.

So do Herrera, Pogba and Mata give the ball away in dangerous positions. You can't have a go at Ibra only when a lot of our team has been as guilty as doing that. Plus we are going to get counter attacked on with all our players pushed up at Old Trafford.

 

[Bojan11]

First of all, its not as I'm saying I'm 100% sure this will happen. But there is a risk in my opinion some young players won't be able to flourish if Zlatan stays too long. He has got a big personality and takes a lot of room. And he can pretty harsh if someone threatens his position. That's how he works. For me, it comes down to how good he is. He is not a Roy Keane that can be an OK player but still lift the team with his mentality and presence on the pitch. He need to be number one.

Adrien Rabiot, Douglas Costa is examples of young players Zlatan has had problems with. Cavani is another example of a player that wasn't able to be as good as he could be with Zlatan in the team. In that case it's mostly because they play in the same position. Zlatan himself couldn't be the best he could be when playing with Barca with Messi in the team, because he couldn't express his personality and game like he wanted to. That's how it works. You have to let people express their game and personalities to flourish. If a young player have a big ego you have to let him express that. Zlatan wouldn't in my opinion.

Zlatan get along with nice players because they nicely let him be number one but if there come another ego that threatens his position there will be problems. Zlatan wouldn't come along with another young Zlatan for example.

I just have to say I like Ibra and I understand why he is like he is. He is, for me, one of three best players the world have seen the last decade. But I'm just being honest. The moment he becomes number two in the hierarchy it's time to let him go and let other players take room and place on and outside the pitch.

It's going to be hard for Zlatan to have problems with Douglas Costa when they never played together.

 

[Kamprad]

It's going to be hard for Zlatan to have problems with Douglas Costa when they never played together.

Haha, sorry. I mean Coman of course. He has had problem with many players that don't let him be the untouchable number one. In Comans case it was an rather small arguement but i think he even said in an interview that Zlatan only cares about himself and not young players.