[JJ12]

Never seen him do anything constructive with the ball in his first team cameos. Seems to have garnered a lot of excitement by running a lot.

Yeah would like to see more of him to judge his technical ability but hasn't shown a great deal in his limited play so far.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Never seen him do anything constructive with the ball in his first team cameos. Seems to have garnered a lot of excitement by running a lot.

Amorin has said he is prioritising effort as output from his players at the moment, so his workrate will surely have him above Eriksen and Casemiro now.

 

[antohan]

Peaked very early, up to 23/24 he was often keeping Scholes out of the team on merit, dropped off after that. PFA team of the year selection in 97/98 as well.

When you watch match highlights of games from that era it is a little surprising how good his passing range was, he could ping the switch to either wing, not to the level of Scholes/Beckham in terms of consistency but he had the range and also had a bit of that Carrick/Keane ability to whip balls between the lines to the strikers feet.

Nicky Butt's flaw was not being as good as Keane or Scholes. Every time he started you were a bit bummed Roy was suspended or that you would miss Scholes' passing and late runs into the box.

Deep down, we all knew you had to be a bloody good player to be the go-to rotation/backup for either and almost not miss a beat. It still bummed you though.

We had a similar situation with Jonny Evans and Rio-Vidic.

 

[Bobski]

Nicky Butt's flaw was not being as good as Keane or Scholes. Every time he started you were a bit bummed Roy was suspended or that you would miss Scholes' passing and late runs into the box.

Deep down, we all knew you had to be a bloody good player to be the go-to rotation/backup for either and almost not miss a beat. It still bummed you though.

We had a similar situation with Jonny Evans and Rio-Vidic.

I do find it interesting how much he dropped off though, by the time he was at Newcastle he had become a bit of a plodder, even in his last couple of years at Utd, mobility had dropped off, but I don't remember him having major injuries that would account for it

Might seem strange now to some but when he was coming through I remember him being more hyped than Scholes

 

[Rozay]

We need physicality and energy in midfield which he has, but unless he’s a late bloomer, he doesn’t look a United midfielder to me. That said, he is a great athlete, but he currently looks miles away from having the composure and ability of the sort of midfielder we should be after. Levels below Mainoo, for example.

 

[Marwood]

I do find it interesting how much he dropped off though, by the time he was at Newcastle he had become a bit of a plodder, even in his last couple of years at Utd, mobility had dropped off, but I don't remember him having major injuries that would account for it

Might seem strange now to some but when he was coming through I remember him being more hyped than Scholes

He just wasn't that good and it showed once he moved. A decent player, great attitude and temperament, surrounded by top players.

Collyer is a better athlete but can he handle playing for United and therefore show his best. That side of it was no problem for Butt

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Loved his performance vs Arsenal. He seems well suited to games where our backs our against the wall.

Not seen enough of him to guess how high his ceiling is but I'm sure he'll have his uses for us.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

We need physicality and energy in midfield which he has, but unless he’s a late bloomer, he doesn’t look a United midfielder to me. That said, he is a great athlete, but he currently looks miles away from having the composure and ability of the sort of midfielder we should be after. Levels below Mainoo, for example.

Yup. Looks like a Championship player to me.

 

[Rozay]

Yup. Looks like a Championship player to me.

Not the ultimate barometer, but there seems to be a lot of talk about a midfielder who I imagine if we made available, would be picked up by a Southampton/Leicester at best. As opposed to Mainoo at the same stage who could have gone anywhere.

 

[Fortitude]

He just wasn't that good and it showed once he moved. A decent player, great attitude and temperament, surrounded by top players.

Collyer is a better athlete but can he handle playing for United and therefore show his best. That side of it was no problem for Butt

Butt gave his best years and fitness to United and, as with many who left us in those years, lost interest in the game to a degree as 'the only way was down' from United. Very few matched their billing here elsewhere during that time and it was mostly those with a point to prove who matched or bettered what they were here (like Ince and P.Neville). As @antohan said, Butt's "failing" was in not being Keane or the maturing version of Scholes who was starting to usurp him. Decent player does him a disservice as he did really well here for a time, not elite level but certainly better than decent.

If Keane is a 10/10 then Butt was around 6-7/10 for the majority of his time here with some 8's dotted in, which is why he was so readily trusted.

 

[Mingus]

Not the ultimate barometer, but there seems to be a lot of talk about a midfielder who I imagine if we made available, would be picked up by a Southampton/Leicester at best. As opposed to Mainoo at the same stage who could have gone anywhere.

At the moment he's played against City, Liverpool and Arsenal (as one of 10). His reading of the game seems good and his positioning and work off the ball excellent.
He may, or may not, have the technique to be a Utd player long term but 3 matches at PL level aren't enough for us to judge that. Amorim and the coaching staff will be able to make that judgement from his training performances and see his capacity to improve.
There were plenty on here saying Mainoo was nothing special from early sub and cup performances.

 

[MrBest]

Feels like a player we will play, raise his profile and hopefully gain a few extra million. Fergie did this a few times.

 

[AkaAkuma]

He needs time to find his feet, he might not be an obvious talent like Mainoo but he might be enough to give us depth.
McTominay would be a good comparison, but also Fletcher; Nobody saw it with him when he came through, he was just filling in on the right wing or midfield, but he grew to a level just below Carrick.

Personally I’m very happy to see it go to British kid, not quite United made, but he’s been with us from 17-18.

 

[CM]

Not the ultimate barometer, but there seems to be a lot of talk about a midfielder who I imagine if we made available, would be picked up by a Southampton/Leicester at best. As opposed to Mainoo at the same stage who could have gone anywhere.

Is there a lot of talk about him? I feel like there's barely hype behind him at all. He just happens to play in a beleaguered team which contains a couple of midfielders who got shown up badly a few games ago vs Newcastle due to their lack of legs.

We don't look like we'll sign a midfielder before the summer so naturally Collyer should get some more game time in the absence of a better player.

 

[AR87]

I don't know if he's good enough for us long-term but I know that Casemiro and Eriksen are not in addition to lacking the requisite physicality and stamina to handle operating in midfield in the PL at this point which often results in our defenders getting exposed as opponents are able to easily play through us in the middle of the park.

Collyer, if nothing else, gives us a player who can handle the sheer physical requirements at the position, which for the time being puts him at 4th in the midfield pecking order.

 

[Rozay]

At the moment he's played against City, Liverpool and Arsenal (as one of 10). His reading of the game seems good and his positioning and work off the ball excellent.
He may, or may not, have the technique to be a Utd player long term but 3 matches at PL level aren't enough for us to judge that. Amorim and the coaching staff will be able to make that judgement from his training performances and see his capacity to improve.
There were plenty on here saying Mainoo was nothing special from early sub and cup performances.

He also played in ore-season, and has of course had an academy career here. Anyone who had actually seen Mainoo play knew he had top level ability before his debut, and everyone else knew by the end of his first PL game against Everton.

 

[Amira]

Has he played some games that I’ve missed?

Struggling to see how anyone could have determined his level and written him off so quickly.

 

[Mingus]

He also played in ore-season, and has of course had an academy career here. Anyone who had actually seen Mainoo play knew he had top level ability before his debut, and everyone else knew by the end of his first PL game against Everton.

If we judged everyone by pre-season Zidane Iqbal would still be here.

I don't remember too many of his academy appearances (he didn't seem to appear as regularly as other midfielders). This may have been down to injury or development reasons but I know he didn't play much for Brighton after he'd declined to sign a contract. He did captain England at U16 and U17 levels though.

 

[lex talionis]

The boy just turned 20 last week and some of us are already writing him off as not good enough for United, even after a fantastic performance against one of the top clubs on the planet, Arsenal FC.

 

[Remember the geese]

The boy just turned 20 last week and some of us are already writing him off as not good enough for United, even after a fantastic performance against one of the top clubs on the planet, Arsenal FC.

He's 21. It's understandable that people are sceptical. He seems to have the right attitude and looks a really good athlete. It's the other side of the game that is a bit of an unknown with him. Nothing wrong with questioning that.

 

[Rozay]

If we judged everyone by pre-season Zidane Iqbal would still be here.

I don't remember too many of his academy appearances (he didn't seem to appear as regularly as other midfielders). This may have been down to injury or development reasons but I know he didn't play much for Brighton after he'd declined to sign a contract. He did captain England at U16 and U17 levels though.

So what is the point of playing young players in pre-season then? They are played to see what they have and what they can do. Mainoo impressed in pre-season and we knew he can handle the ball against top players. Of course, that is just the start, but it’s the tools. Collyer, to me, showed the opposite in pre-season, and in the other games since then. He’s faced some tough opposition granted, although he did also start at left back against Barnsley and was terrible.

Anyway, he is still young, and could be a late bloomer, however - I’ve not seen the ability yet and frightfully, it looks to me that we finally got McTominay out the door and immediately put another one in his place.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I see him in the Fletcher - Ander Herrera mold. He keeps it simple because he’s been told to keep it simple. I’d rather that than the equivalent of Rasmus doing a heel chop when receiving the ball in the hopes it outfoxes his marker, but usually he just ends up miscontrolling because he didn’t keep it simple.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

So what is the point of playing young players in pre-season then? They are played to see what they have and what they can do. Mainoo impressed in pre-season and we knew he can handle the ball against top players. Of course, that is just the start, but it’s the tools. Collyer, to me, showed the opposite in pre-season, and in the other games since then. He’s faced some tough opposition granted, although he did also start at left back against Barnsley and was terrible.

Anyway, he is still young, and could be a late bloomer, however - I’ve not seen the ability yet and frightfully, it looks to me that we finally got McTominay out the door and immediately put another one in his place.

He’s not a left back, one, and two, he bossed Arsenal in pre-season.

 

[Bondi77]

We need physicality and energy in midfield which he has, but unless he’s a late bloomer, he doesn’t look a United midfielder to me. That said, he is a great athlete, but he currently looks miles away from having the composure and ability of the sort of midfielder we should be after. Levels below Mainoo, for example.

He is levels above Kobbie when it comes to covering ground.
I am really interested to see how his career pans out as every top club needs players with intensity and high energy and athleticism and he looks the part.
We just have to see what his technical side is like over a few games.

 

[Insanity]

I see him in the Fletcher - Ander Herrera mold. He keeps it simple because he’s been told to keep it simple. I’d rather that than the equivalent of Rasmus doing a heel chop when receiving the ball in the hopes it outfoxes his marker, but usually he just ends up miscontrolling because he didn’t keep it simple.

Fletcher was a much better passer of the ball. He had good control and passing. It wasn't very expansive but it was good enough.

About being asked to keep it simple, you have simply made it up without any evidence.

Toby is an athlete, he is strong and fast; however I don't see a long term future for him in our midfield as he is not very good on the ball. He can come in games where we are defending deep and do the job, but if we are planning to become a good team then we have limited use for him.

 

[Marwood]

Butt gave his best years and fitness to United and, as with many who left us in those years, lost interest in the game to a degree as 'the only way was down' from United. Very few matched their billing here elsewhere during that time and it was mostly those with a point to prove who matched or bettered what they were here (like Ince and P.Neville). As @antohan said, Butt's "failing" was in not being Keane or the maturing version of Scholes who was starting to usurp him. Decent player does him a disservice as he did really well here for a time, not elite level but certainly better than decent.

If Keane is a 10/10 then Butt was around 6-7/10 for the majority of his time here with some 8's dotted in, which is why he was so readily trusted.

Yeah largely agree. Maybe he was just past his best when he left.

I don’t think there's much difference though between me saying he was decent player with a great temperament and you saying he was a 6-7/10 player. Same thing really.

What I'd like to do is take that class of 92 confidence and drip it into today's young players.

Big question is does Collyer have the confidence to fully show his game. Or will he just keep it safe.

 

[red_de_pologne]

The boy just turned 20 last week and some of us are already writing him off as not good enough for United, even after a fantastic performance against one of the top clubs on the planet, Arsenal FC.

typical for this forum, fortunately not for the fan base as a whole

 

[SoCross]

Baffling to say he’s not good on the ball unless you mean he’s not pinging it around like Scholes. Even Kobbie doesn’t have that to his game.

Collyer has a good short passing game, plenty of energy, athleticism and a good reading of the game. His ceiling is yet unknown given he’s just breaking into the team and playing at this level but let’s give the kid a chance. He hasn’t let the side down yet. And at least we know Amorim picks on merit.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Fletcher was a much better passer of the ball. He had good control and passing. It wasn't very expansive but it was good enough.

About being asked to keep it simple, you have simply made it up without any evidence.

Toby is an athlete, he is strong and fast; however I don't see a long term future for him in our midfield as he is not very good on the ball. He can come in games where we are defending deep and do the job, but if we are planning to become a good team then we have limited use for him.

No I haven’t. Amorim took me aside during the match and asked me what I thought of his instructions to Collyer to keep it simple. I said, I agree with you Ruben.

 

[Rojofiam]

He's the best at eating up space quickly from all of our current midfield options. That alone should get him a healthy amount of minutes on the pitch in the remainder of this season.

I'd like to see him paired with both Mainoo and Ugarte in a double pivot. I think him and Mainoo could work better, but he would also help Ugarte in certain things IMO, although at the expense of some stuff that Mainoo provides but Collyer probably doesn't.

Also, I've not seen anyone anywhere compare him or hype him up to the level of Mainoo and other similarly elite level talents, so not sure where that notion comes from.

 

[Mingus]

So what is the point of playing young players in pre-season then?

It's so the coaching staff can assess them in a relatively low pressure situation rather than putting them straight in so that fans can immediately pronounce them not good enough.

Also he is nothing like McTominay in style of play or technical ability.

 

[Fortitude]

Yeah largely agree. Maybe he was just past his best when he left.

I don’t think there's much difference though between me saying he was decent player with a great temperament and you saying he was a 6-7/10 player. Same thing really.

What I'd like to do is take that class of 92 confidence and drip it into today's young players.

Big question is does Collyer have the confidence to fully show his game. Or will he just keep it safe.

I.dunno, decent makes it sound like he was lucky to have been given such an important role here when the reality was he was well worth his spot and lost it when an incredible player came along who would have taken it from all but a handful of players in the league at the time - I’m talking about in partnering Keane, btw who was an athletic marvel who allowed us to buck the trend of two full-on two-way midfielders and have one who could focus more on attacking whilst Keane had the pace, energy, positioning and stamina to cover the entire central area.

Next to Keane, you didn’t need a mini-me and we could afford to let Scholes fully express himself in midfield. There’s no shame in not being able to bring the same to the team as one of the greatest CM’s of all-time, which is why I’d say 6.5-7/10 looks good next to Keane’s 10/10. I suppose for me decent is middling; just around a 5 and lucky to hit 6’s and above on the rare occasion whereas Butt was rarely below a 6.5 and gave little concern he couldn’t deliver a solid and dependable performance, just obviously nowhere near as expansive and effervescent as Keane’s.

I suppose another thing worth considering with Butt compared to the others is that their growth was essentially exponential at a time when he had a small peak and return to mean - we saw the best of him and it wasn’t going to elevate into something else, which probably makes him look worse than he was if context isn’t applied and we consider he was in and about some of the best players per respective position that there has been in English football. Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Beckham as a set is a bunch of players who were capable of 8’s straight through to 10’s who were often considered world class and that’s the bar Butt couldn’t get near so in relative terms context is really important.

It’s an interesting one and why I think the way @antohan coined it is so fitting; in a land of giants, it’s not enough just to be considerably taller than average - compared to them, you’re still short and it can distract from what you’re bringing to the table, which is why Butt is such an abstract concept who doesn’t really have a place in history other than as a placeholder between Ince (another titan) leaving and Scholes ascension; further: Robson, Ince, Keane, Scholes and Butt… Butt is going to be the forgotten man, isn’t he?

Re. Collyer. I am not getting the need or clamour for him to be good or great on the ball. It would obviously be fantastic, but I don’t think people realise if you mix his athletic attributes with being good or even great on the ball, you’d be talking about one of the best CM’s in the league out the gate, which is an unrealistic expectation, imo. I will be very happy if he’s competent enough to not be the one losing the ball in passing chains or tight situations, basically not being a liability that his elite athleticism is constantly having to bail him out and make up for. We’ll see how it goes and what kind of asset he could end up being; hopefully, it’ll be more than just a body to throw on for legs and energy.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'd like to see him play this evening.

 

[noodlehair]

He looks busy whenever he's been in the first team. There are worse things to be than busy in this United team. In about 75% of our games this season that would make him our MOTM.

He looked out of his depth against Liverpool earlier in the season, but tbf he was brought into an impossible situation and you can't say he was worse than anyone else in the circumstances.

We've still got the FA cup and Europa League to navigate so I reckon he'll get some more time on the pitch here and there to see what he can do.

 

[Hammondo]

Huge improvement from Mainoo, but difficult to tell if that was because of how crap Mainoo was or how good Collyer was

 

[tomaldinho1]

Looks quite decent this lad, think quite a few of our players were knackered but he looked way faster

 

[Lay]

Looks a good player in the making

 

[Oranges038]

Solid display.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Really decent again, very composed.

 

[Lanesy]

Offers more than Ugarte IMO, he should be a starter!