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Ah yes, me who has seen the guy play over 10 times is lacking evidence because he had 1 game where he had shown improvement
Injuries, if I remember correctly. Also not good/ready enough for first team football.Why didnt this guy get a loan yet last season?
I feel like when a player reaches 19 and isn't near first team minutes yet they should be loaned out and learn to play 'adult football'..
Garner came up as the most defensive of our midfielders, but with passing ability too. Not sure what makes Collyer a #6 or what he has shown to make him a #6, but not Garner. Basically what makes one different from the other in terms of position?comparisons to Garner are not accurate. Garner was ans is a #8, who could defend. Collyear ia a #6. If Garner had stayed he woyld be competing with Mainoo and Gore, and he is not as good as any of these. Not that I think Collyear is ready yet. We need and experiencd #6 (not Cassemiro) to be the mainstay with Collyear as his back up, and playing in the Cup games
comparisons to Garner are not accurate. Garner was ans is a #8, who could defend. Collyear ia a #6. If Garner had stayed he woyld be competing with Mainoo and Gore, and he is not as good as any of these. Not that I think Collyear is ready yet. We need and experiencd #6 (not Cassemiro) to be the mainstay with Collyear as his back up, and playing in the Cup games
Fair enough, mate. McTominay is a physical midfielder, but I still maintain he's not the best at actually using his physical prowess. Matic and Fellaini were tough as nails. Where defenders went into an aerial duel, Fellaini chested the ball. Matic was sublime at standing tackles. Neither were fast, but Fellaini worked his socks off. McTominay may have good stats when it comes to running, but the eye test says he often jogs about (still covering the distance), and doesn't anticipate the dangers until it's too late.
I always found Fred the better midfielder than McTominay, but both were used incorrectly. Fred was an 8, even an attacking 8, and pretty much every time he was played in that position he did quite well. As a DM, he lacked strength, which caused him to lose so many physical duels. McTominay, however, doesn't get into those duels because he isn't fast enough to recover, and he lacks awareness and anticipation in that role. Closer to the opposition box, he appears to have much better instincts. Obviously, he's also an asset when defending set-pieces.
comparisons to Garner are not accurate. Garner was ans is a #8, who could defend. Collyear ia a #6. If Garner had stayed he woyld be competing with Mainoo and Gore, and he is not as good as any of these. Not that I think Collyear is ready yet. We need and experiencd #6 (not Cassemiro) to be the mainstay with Collyear as his back up, and playing in the Cup games
I’m not gonna play the expert here, just say my impression so far is that while Garner could sometimes play in a 6 role and Collyer can play in a 8 position, the impression for me was that Garner was most of all a distributor with handy defensive guts and discipline making him more balanced than our other creative midfielders. Collyer strikes me as more of a supertalent for DM tasks - mobility, breaking up play,, intensity of pressing, positional discipline on an exceptional level for his age. His distribution seems normal/needs work.Garner came up as the most defensive of our midfielders, but with passing ability too. Not sure what makes Collyer a #6 or what he has shown to make him a #6, but not Garner. Basically what makes one different from the other in terms of position?
I’m not gonna play the expert here, just say my impression so far is that while Garner could sometimes play in a 6 role and Collyer can play in a 8 position, the impression for me was that Garner was most of all a distributor with handy defensive guts and discipline making him more balanced than our other creative midfielders. Collyer strikes me as more of a supertalent for DM tasks - mobility, breaking up play,, intensity of pressing, positional discipline on an exceptional level for his age. His distribution seems normal/needs work.
Well I didn’t say supertalent in general, only for certain tasks. But yeah, if he keeps honing his mobility, his positional awareness, his agressiveness in pressing and breaking up play, I think he can become one of the very best in those particular skills, yeaBig call!
Yeah he's been out with an injury for the last 4 or 5 months.Is he this pre-season’s Dan Gore? What has happened to Gore anyway? Is he injured?
He’s much more. Dan is super talented but I feel Collyer is physically ready. Couple that with his ability to stay disciplined tactically and he is ready for the same kind of step up McTominay once had. Albeit, he’s going to be an upgrade defensively speaking.Is he this pre-season’s Dan Gore? What has happened to Gore anyway? Is he injured?
He only did it once but I liked when he burst forward and got to the byline for a dangerous situation. Would be very cool if he could step up and save us some money on an area of the pitch that is calling out for someone to wrestle away from the ageing Casemiro.Good cameo. You end up seeing his speed every time he's on the pitch which is rare for a CM, and with more time on the ball he played some clever passes over the top.
Yes - obviously showing he’s first team readyIs he this pre-season’s Dan Gore? What has happened to Gore anyway? Is he injured?
It's a rite of passage for promising youth players at United to get an injury right before a chance, either for the first team or out on loan.Yes - obviously showing he’s first team ready
Collyer isn’t like Garner or McTominay for me.The closet player stylistically for me is Carrick. A sitting midfielder who uses tactical intelligence and good positioning to break up play, and then good vision and calmness to help us keep the ball and attack.
Garner while good on the ball doesn’t have the physicality of Toby and Scott’s nature is to follow the ball rather than maintain team shape.
Similar to Mainoo when people doubted him before he had a chance or even knowing what type of player they are assessing, just give the lad a chance. He might make it or not but ultimately we can’t know without trying.
Agreed, he's nothing like Carrick. Garner was and is the bigger talent than Collyer, but obviously the coaches are seeing something in him they like.Id say if any of those players you mentioned was close to Carrick stylistically it was probably Garner. I'm still not sold on Collyer's technical ability, albeit its still early in his introduction into the team. I'd still have Garner over him at their respected ages from a talent perspective. But hopefully Collyer can prove me wrong.
To me Garner is similar in that he has a varied passing range of either foot but didn’t press like Carrick for me and lacked his ability to intercept and read the game. It’s what allowed him to play next to Scholes.Id say if any of those players you mentioned was close to Carrick stylistically it was probably Garner. I'm still not sold on Collyer's technical ability, albeit its still early in his introduction into the team. I'd still have Garner over him at their respected ages from a talent perspective. But hopefully Collyer can prove me wrong.
Bigger talent in what respect? And you really don’t see the good positioning and interception as similar facets of Carricks play in Toby? As a minimum?Agreed, he's nothing like Carrick. Garner was and is the bigger talent than Collyer, but obviously the coaches are seeing something in him they like.
Why the hell are you pretending as if you're the only one who's seen him play before?
Maybe he means bigger talent because of Garner's technical ability I suppose but that's it, Toby is a better all round midfield talent, he has all the tools you'd want. Where he is lacking can be improved upon. Oyedele is another one that has caught my eye. Those two will be around the squad the next couple of seasons for sure. Would make a solid pairing too.Bigger talent in what respect? And you really don’t see the good positioning and interception as similar facets of Carricks play in Toby? As a minimum?
In my opinion, Garner is a better passer, was also good enough defensively to often play at CB and had great leadership qualities having captained our teams at multiple levels, not to mention when played further forward he had a great eye for goal. In his stint in the U21s/U23s he was also far and away our best player which is something I don't believe Collyer has yet replicated.Bigger talent in what respect? And you really don’t see the good positioning and interception as similar facets of Carricks play in Toby? As a minimum?
Again, I disagree for the reasons listed above. Collyer almost certainly isn't the better all rounder considering Garner has excelled as an 8, 6 and at CB. I also remember Garner being a pretty handy set piece taker too.Maybe he means bigger talent because of Garner's technical ability I suppose but that's it, Toby is a better all round midfield talent, he has all the tools you'd want. Where he is lacking can be improved upon. Oyedele is another one that has caught my eye. Those two will be around the squad the next couple of seasons for sure. Would make a solid pairing too.
I thought that too but Toby has a good first touch too and also passes of both feet and can carry the ball better than Garner for me. So I thought I’d ask.Maybe he means bigger talent because of Garner's technical ability I suppose but that's it, Toby is a better all round midfield talent, he has all the tools you'd want. Where he is lacking can be improved upon. Oyedele is another one that has caught my eye. Those two will be around the squad the next couple of seasons for sure. Would make a solid pairing too.
Collyer has for me more in common with Kante and a young Casemiro than a Carrick, Garner had more in common with Carrick for me. For me, I don’t see Garner as at the requisite level for a Carrick role, nor a Casemiro role, nor a more attacking role, at least not without several years more of development. That’s my take on him anyway.In my opinion, Garner is a better passer, was also good enough defensively to often play at CB and had great leadership qualities having captained our teams at multiple levels, not to mention when played further forward he had a great eye for goal. In his stint in the U21s/U23s he was also far and away our best player which is something I don't believe Collyer has yet replicated.
Honestly, no, I just don't see the similarities between Carrick and Collyer. Collyer certainly looks a decent player but not a Carrick type for me.
Again, I disagree for the reasons listed above. Collyer almost certainly isn't the better all rounder considering Garner has excelled as an 8, 6 and at CB. I also remember Garner being a pretty handy set piece taker too.
Garner is a very good passer and had the positional awareness to play centre back which is where I first saw him play actually in an youth tournament. I agree that he did look great in youth football and was a leader but I’d say Collyer was on a similar level at Brighton and rated highly before he got injured here. He just hasn’t had a chance to show it here. Plus the level of their under 21 teams was radically different.In my opinion, Garner is a better passer, was also good enough defensively to often play at CB and had great leadership qualities having captained our teams at multiple levels, not to mention when played further forward he had a great eye for goal. In his stint in the U21s/U23s he was also far and away our best player which is something I don't believe Collyer has yet replicated.
Honestly, no, I just don't see the similarities between Carrick and Collyer. Collyer certainly looks a decent player but not a Carrick type for me.
Again, I disagree for the reasons listed above. Collyer almost certainly isn't the better all rounder considering Garner has excelled as an 8, 6 and at CB. I also remember Garner being a pretty handy set piece taker too.
Bigger talent in what respect? And you really don’t see the good positioning and interception as similar facets of Carricks play in Toby? As a minimum?
The first two I’d dispute but yeah he scored more. However Toby possess traits Garner doesn’t. I rate them both as players.Better passer, better first touch, also Garner had goals in him for U21's.
Agree with all of that. He doesn’t over complicate things and is tactically aware. With the Cdm dropping back between the centre backs more too far in pre season then I can see it being an advantage. I’m sure he played centre back before but as a one of rather than regularly.Not seen much of this kid at all but his speed with the ball at feet from deep positions really catches the eye, not typical for a DM. Also looks to be a guy who could potentially go between DM and CB.
You have to give Ten Hag credit for giving youth a chance, can potentially save a lot of money.
