That would be the NSC.
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
Still not sure I fully get what the letter says though. He's not mentally ill because his narcissism doesn't affect his life negatively? Couldn't that just be down to luck and having been gifted a fortune? @Pogue Mahone
yup - brainfart on my part!
Still not sure I fully get what the letter says though. He's not mentally ill because his narcissism doesn't affect his life negatively? Couldn't that just be down to luck and having been gifted a fortune? @Pogue Mahone
Yeah, see above. It's a brilliant letter but I'm not sure I agree. I think it's very possible he could have a PD and not suffer any negative consequences from it, personally. Different story for all the people who have to be around him, though.
I don't know if that's possible to quantify but you might be interested in what David Scowsill from the World Travel & Tourism Council (WTTC) referred to today while on CNN. He pretty much said what's in WTTC's press release:
https://www.wttc.org/media-centre/p...-and-tourism-council-warns-us-administration/
Aah... my poor failing eyes..
Interesting. I suppose he may be viewing it from the angle of people saying he's got the disorder as a term of abuse, and wanting to push back on that, which I can agree with.
I don't ever want to hear any argument that a female President would be too emotional.
indeed!now - this...this is scary
Is this when we're gonna regret the precedent established by Kennedy, when he federalized the Alabama National guard to impose desegregation?
This will be their downfall. Footage of crying babies being separated from their mothers by uniformed soldiers...that's one sure way to lose an election. They will simply get flattened in the midterms.
our friend Jeffrey will most definitely draw that analogy.
ICE is undermanned - there can be no arguments with that. But, the National Guard going door to door...street by street...block by block...
what an image.
Just like with everything else though, it's exactly what he promised to do if necessary. Trump had a point in his press conference yesterday when he was moaning about the media's reaction to the travel ban - it's like they hadn't been listening to what he'd been saying for 18 months, or recognised that he got voted in largely on the basis of his campaign promises. Same applies here.
The thing is. Trump is a bigot, trump is a racist and ignorant person. Lord perfectly represents the mind set of Trump. Cnn have on many republican pundits that are reasonable and intelligent and not racist. But trump isn't any of that. Lord basically agrees with everything trump says and does and gives insight into what Trump is probably thinking which is basically racist and ignorant thoughts. So if you can't get trump on may aswel get someone on from time to time that basically has his thinking in line with the President. That's how I see it anyway. Its the USA that gave an ignorant, racist bigot the biggest platform in the first place.... the Presidency.
Full Article - so this has been doing the rounds within DHS and has only come out now.
Trump weighs mobilizing Nat Guard for immigration roundups
Garance Burke, Associated Press
Associated Press
February 17, 2017
The Trump administration is considering a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by The Associated Press.
The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana.
Four states that border on Mexico are included in the proposal — California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — but it also encompasses seven states contiguous to those four — Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.
Governors in the 11 states would have a choice whether to have their guard troops participate, according to the memo, written by U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general.
While National Guard personnel have been used to assist with immigration-related missions on the U.S.-Mexico border before, they have never been used as broadly or as far north.
The memo is addressed to the then-acting heads of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and U.S. Customs and Border Protection. It would serve as guidance to implement the wide-ranging executive order on immigration and border security that President Donald Trump signed Jan. 25. Such memos are routinely issued to supplement executive orders.
Also dated Jan. 25, the draft memo says participating troops would be authorized "to perform the functions of an immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension and detention of aliens in the United States." It describes how the troops would be activated under a revived state-federal partnership program, and states that personnel would be authorized to conduct searches and identify and arrest any unauthorized immigrants.
Requests to the White House and the Department of Homeland Security for comment and a status report on the proposal were not answered.
The draft document has circulated among DHS staff over the last two weeks. As recently as Friday, staffers in several different offices reported discussions were underway.
If implemented, the impact could be significant. Nearly one-half of the 11.1 million people residing in the U.S. without authorization live in the 11 states, according to Pew Research Center estimates based on 2014 Census data.
Use of National Guard troops would greatly increase the number of immigrants targeted in one of Trump's executive orders last month, which expanded the definition of who could be considered a criminal and therefore a potential target for deportation. That order also allows immigration agents to prioritize removing anyone who has "committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense."
Under current rules, even if the proposal is implemented, there would not be immediate mass deportations. Those with existing deportation orders could be sent back to their countries of origin without additional court proceedings. But deportation orders generally would be needed for most other unauthorized immigrants.
The troops would not be nationalized, remaining under state control.
Spokespeople for the governors of Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oregon and New Mexico said they were unaware of the proposal, and either declined to comment or said it was premature to discuss whether they would participate. The other three states did not immediately respond to the AP.
The proposal would extend the federal-local partnership program that President Barack Obama's administration began scaling back in 2012 to address complaints that it promoted racial profiling.
The 287(g) program, which Trump included in his immigration executive order, gives local police, sheriff's deputies and state troopers the authority to assist in the detection of immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally as a regular part of their law enforcement duties on the streets and in jails.
The draft memo also mentions other items included in Trump's executive order, including the hiring of an additional 5,000 border agents, which needs financing from Congress, and his campaign promise to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.
According to the draft memo, the militarization effort would be proactive, specifically empowering Guard troops to solely carry out immigration enforcement, not as an add-on the way local law enforcement is used in the program.
Allowing Guard troops to operate inside non-border states also would go far beyond past deployments.
In addition to responding to natural or man-made disasters or for military protection of the population or critical infrastructure, state Guard forces have been used to assist with immigration-related tasks on the U.S.-Mexico border, including the construction of fences.
In the mid-2000s, President George W. Bush twice deployed Guard troops on the border to focus on non-law enforcement duties to help augment the Border Patrol as it bolstered its ranks. And in 2010, then-Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer announced a border security plan that included Guard reconnaissance, aerial patrolling and military exercises.
In July 2014, then-Texas Gov. Rick Perry ordered 1,000 National Guard troops to the border when the surge of migrant children fleeing violence in Central America overwhelmed U.S. officials responsible for their care. The Guard troops' stated role on the border at the time was to provide extra sets of eyes but not make arrests.
Bush initiated the federal 287(g) program — named for a section of a 1996 immigration law — to allow specially trained local law enforcement officials to participate in immigration enforcement on the streets and check whether people held in local jails were in the country illegally. ICE trained and certified roughly 1,600 officers to carry out those checks from 2006 to 2015.
The memo describes the program as a "highly successful force multiplier" that identified more than 402,000 "removable aliens."
But federal watchdogs were critical of how DHS ran the program, saying it was poorly supervised and provided insufficient training to officers, including on civil rights law. Obama phased out all the arrest power agreements in 2013 to instead focus on deporting recent border crossers and immigrants in the country illegally who posed a safety or national security threat.
Trump weighs mobilizing Nat Guard for immigration roundups
Garance Burke, Associated Press
Associated Press
February 17, 2017
The Trump administration is considering a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by The Associated Press.
The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana.
Four states that border on Mexico are included in the proposal — California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — but it also encompasses seven states contiguous to those four — Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.
Governors in the 11 states would have a choice whether to have their guard troops participate, according to the memo, written by U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general.
While National Guard personnel have been used to assist with immigration-related missions on the U.S.-Mexico border before, they have never been used as broadly or as far north.
The memo is addressed to the then-acting heads of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and U.S. Customs and Border Protection. It would serve as guidance to implement the wide-ranging executive order on immigration and border security that President Donald Trump signed Jan. 25. Such memos are routinely issued to supplement executive orders.
Also dated Jan. 25, the draft memo says participating troops would be authorized "to perform the functions of an immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension and detention of aliens in the United States." It describes how the troops would be activated under a revived state-federal partnership program, and states that personnel would be authorized to conduct searches and identify and arrest any unauthorized immigrants.
Requests to the White House and the Department of Homeland Security for comment and a status report on the proposal were not answered.
The draft document has circulated among DHS staff over the last two weeks. As recently as Friday, staffers in several different offices reported discussions were underway.
If implemented, the impact could be significant. Nearly one-half of the 11.1 million people residing in the U.S. without authorization live in the 11 states, according to Pew Research Center estimates based on 2014 Census data.
Use of National Guard troops would greatly increase the number of immigrants targeted in one of Trump's executive orders last month, which expanded the definition of who could be considered a criminal and therefore a potential target for deportation. That order also allows immigration agents to prioritize removing anyone who has "committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense."
Under current rules, even if the proposal is implemented, there would not be immediate mass deportations. Those with existing deportation orders could be sent back to their countries of origin without additional court proceedings. But deportation orders generally would be needed for most other unauthorized immigrants.
The troops would not be nationalized, remaining under state control.
Spokespeople for the governors of Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oregon and New Mexico said they were unaware of the proposal, and either declined to comment or said it was premature to discuss whether they would participate. The other three states did not immediately respond to the AP.
The proposal would extend the federal-local partnership program that President Barack Obama's administration began scaling back in 2012 to address complaints that it promoted racial profiling.
The 287(g) program, which Trump included in his immigration executive order, gives local police, sheriff's deputies and state troopers the authority to assist in the detection of immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally as a regular part of their law enforcement duties on the streets and in jails.
The draft memo also mentions other items included in Trump's executive order, including the hiring of an additional 5,000 border agents, which needs financing from Congress, and his campaign promise to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.
According to the draft memo, the militarization effort would be proactive, specifically empowering Guard troops to solely carry out immigration enforcement, not as an add-on the way local law enforcement is used in the program.
Allowing Guard troops to operate inside non-border states also would go far beyond past deployments.
In addition to responding to natural or man-made disasters or for military protection of the population or critical infrastructure, state Guard forces have been used to assist with immigration-related tasks on the U.S.-Mexico border, including the construction of fences.
In the mid-2000s, President George W. Bush twice deployed Guard troops on the border to focus on non-law enforcement duties to help augment the Border Patrol as it bolstered its ranks. And in 2010, then-Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer announced a border security plan that included Guard reconnaissance, aerial patrolling and military exercises.
In July 2014, then-Texas Gov. Rick Perry ordered 1,000 National Guard troops to the border when the surge of migrant children fleeing violence in Central America overwhelmed U.S. officials responsible for their care. The Guard troops' stated role on the border at the time was to provide extra sets of eyes but not make arrests.
Bush initiated the federal 287(g) program — named for a section of a 1996 immigration law — to allow specially trained local law enforcement officials to participate in immigration enforcement on the streets and check whether people held in local jails were in the country illegally. ICE trained and certified roughly 1,600 officers to carry out those checks from 2006 to 2015.
The memo describes the program as a "highly successful force multiplier" that identified more than 402,000 "removable aliens."
But federal watchdogs were critical of how DHS ran the program, saying it was poorly supervised and provided insufficient training to officers, including on civil rights law. Obama phased out all the arrest power agreements in 2013 to instead focus on deporting recent border crossers and immigrants in the country illegally who posed a safety or national security threat.
I beg to differ. Based on his voters, I'd predict a boost.
Only the hardcore white collars and labourers.
Corporation and business orientated republicans will be furious at this. He's going to wipe out their cheap labour forces.
Stuff like this is leaked by the WH - they leak it...watch to see the reaction (not from the media or democrats) but from their base. They then weigh things and either move forward...modify or drop the idea.
I wouldn't want to bet one way or the other these days, but remember that it wasn't just rally-attending MAGA chanting Trumpers who voted for him, there was a very sizeable portion who thought he wasn't being serious in his rhetoric and would tone it down in office.
Can I ask why it is that people frown upon illegal immigrants being deported? From the outside looking in I always wonder why it's not popular with liberals.
My next question is why is it such a bad thing to have a single payer Health care system. It's deemed as so bad that if you propose something even close to it your political career is over.
Honest question and looking forward to some honest answers.
My next question is why is it such a bad thing to have a single payer Health care system. It's deemed as so bad that if you propose something even close to it your political career is over.
Honest question and looking forward to some honest answers.
Doesn't sound unreasonable. I always avoid layovers in USA and have canceled a couple of trips to US because of the hassle.
I think he was doing a caricature of Alec Baldwin in his Stress Conference yesterday.
NB:Stress Conference recycled from the late show.
And when will the winner be told he's fired.
For the most part, they are a net positive for the economy. Also many should be considered refugees, as they are fleeing the terrible and underreported drug wars in Central America the causes of which can of course be traced back to the US. They'll never gain that official status though.
Nothing wrong with wanting to stop illegal immigration. Illegal immigration/immigrants are the enemy of legal immigrants. Allowing people to break the law and rewarding them is an insult to the millions who go through the legal process to get to the US or any other country for that matter.
Thing is - the govt HAS been making headway with illegal immigrants. Obama ended up deporting more illegals than Bush -
Net migration from Mexico is DOWN.
Having said all that, there are 12-15mil illegal immigrants in this country - let's say 2 million are 'bad hombres' - criminals, gang bangers, rapists, killers (they aren't)...but, suppose. That still leaves you at least 10mil ppl. Many of these people have been in the US for decades - they have no other life and their children know no other 'home'.
I simply can't accept 10mil people getting marched to the borders, put on planes and being told to GTFO. It just doesn't sit right with me.
Spicey with strong denials - guess that means the memos were true...seeing as we know how facts/truth mean something completely different to the current WH
On deportations, I can't speak for liberals at large, but in my own mind its just that there's nowhere near a civil way to do it. I don't think that pre-ban controversy, anyone cared that much if a US consulate official or even CPB officer at the border makes an assessment that someone is likely to overstay their visa and send them back / deny them. But once they're living in the US, in society, there's no good way to go about finding and detaining them that doesn't partially infringe upon others that are citizens and legals. There's no good way to profile illegals, so it'd just end up being mass stops of hispanics and others.
Nothing wrong with wanting to stop illegal immigration. Illegal immigration/immigrants are the enemy of legal immigrants. Allowing people to break the law and rewarding them is an insult to the millions who go through the legal process to get to the US or any other country for that matter.
Thing is - the govt HAS been making headway with illegal immigrants. Obama ended up deporting more illegals than Bush -
Net migration from Mexico is DOWN.
Having said all that, there are 12-15mil illegal immigrants in this country - let's say 2 million are 'bad hombres' - criminals, gang bangers, rapists, killers (they aren't)...but, suppose. That still leaves you at least 10mil ppl. Many of these people have been in the US for decades - they have no other life and their children know no other 'home'.
I simply can't accept 10mil people getting marched to the borders, put on planes and being told to GTFO. It just doesn't sit right with me.
All good points, especially about the insult to legal immigrants. That said, I wonder if there are ways to let those who aren't bad hombres stay. If you're working, paying taxes, contributing to society positively, etc...why not put these people on probation for 3-5 years, make sure they are good hombres and then let them have citizenship?
What all this stuff that the Trump Administration neglects to remember is that the US is a nation of immigrants. As we know, forgetting your roots and your history makes for some pretty egregious errors in judgement.
This is exactly what the Gang of 8 came up with - It was potentially a brilliant compromise. But it got shot down, with cries of AMNESTY!!!! AMNESTY!!!!
Here is the 2 page outline: http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/...57C0.4-16-13-one-pager---immigration-bill.pdf
I've posted the bit dealing with illegal immigrants -
Dealing With Our Undocumented Population In A Tough But Humane Manner
Today, there are 11 million people in the U.S. illegally, living in de facto amnesty. That’s the status quo, and it’s what we will continue to have if we do nothing to solve this problem. No way of dealing with this reality will ever be perfect, but this marks a strong conservative start by focusing on the following:
Linking Temporary Status To Security Triggers: No undocumented immigrant is eligible to apply for temporary status until the border security and fencing plan is in place. After being in the temporary status for at least ten years, no currently undocumented immigrant can even attain permanent residence, much less citizenship, unless the border security, employment verification and exit system triggers have been achieved. Rejecting Amnesty: No one gets amnesty. In fact, this bill will eliminate today’s de facto amnesty, in which we have 11 million undocumented immigrants here and don’t know who they are, what activities they’re engaged in or anything else about them. Once the first security triggers are achieved, undocumented immigrants will be able to come forward, must submit to and pass background checks, be fingerprinted, pay $2,000 in fines, pay taxes, prove gainful employment, prove they’ve had a physical presence in the U.S. since before 2012 and going to the back of the line, among other criteria. Criminals and those who don’t meet these criteria will be deported.
No Federal Benefits: Undocumented immigrants will not be eligible for federal benefits. This legislation contains a partial repeal of ObamaCare to bar undocumented immigrants from receiving its benefits. Once they are eligible to apply for permanent residence, this bill strengthens current “public charge” law that stipulates no immigrant can obtain a green card if they can’t prove they can support themselves and won’t become government dependents – by verifying that they are earning at least 25 percent above the poverty level and are gainfully employed. They will have to do verify this more than once, at different parts of the process. Current law, which we do not change, also bars permanent residents from receiving federal benefits for the first five years of that status.
Legalization Is Not Immediate, Automatic Or Irrevocable: Their status can be revoked if they commit a serious crime or if they fail to comply with the employment requirement, the public charge requirement (which goes hand in hand with the employment requirement), their tax obligations and their physical presence obligations. Fairness To Legal Immigrants: For undocumented immigrants who avail themselves of the process outlined in this bill, they will face a longer, more costly and less certain way forward than if they had come legally in the first place. They will have to pay fines legal immigrants don’t have to pay, and they will have to wait at the back of the line behind all those who applied to come legally before them until the backlog of legal immigrant applicants is cleared. Plus, whereas aspiring legal immigrants won’t have to wait until the security triggers are met, those who are here illegally today won’t be eligible for permanent residence until at least ten years have elapsed AND several security triggers are achieved.
Not Punishing Children For Their Parents’ Mistakes: Young undocumented people whose parents brought them to the U.S. illegally or overstayed visas, will be eligible for permanent residence in five years and citizenship immediately thereafter, provided they meet all the prescribed criteria.
incredible coincidence!Pity that some idiots don't understand the definition of amnesty.
Just talked to a guy I worked with about this, he is in the NG. He says he will refuse any such order on the grounds it is an illegal use of the NG, not sure if it is or not.
Probably falls into some grey area in the laws, though I think in some situations the Governor of a state can refuse the call up of the National Guard.
In the full article, it states the draft memo stated Governors would have the right to refuse.
Some governors surely would (California) some would not (Arizona, Texas).
- Status