The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Rado_N said:
Should be removed for misspelling oppose.
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Yep. This is why the petition should not have been made headline news and made a big deal out of.

Would not surprise me even a little if this petition reaches a million plus, once the 4chan trolls and bots get involved.
 
PedroMendez said:
I gave you a fairly constructive and far more detailed answer on why he isn't a fascist. It is true so; if you think Kentonio's reply was sensible, any discussion would be futile. He has no idea about historic facts, doesn't understand the underlying ideology and tries to make a connection between cutting taxes+regulation and Nazi-Germany. Thats simply crazy. Even 5 minutes on wikipedia should be sufficient to understand that. Now I start to understand why so many people throw around this label all the time. There are a lot of fascists out there, when deregulation, cutting taxes or a market economy is an indicator for such an ideology.
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No, you're just digging yourself a hole now. Absolutely no one has claimed what you say in your last sentence. That's twisting @Kentonio's words.

The list you gave is debatable, which would be completely okay if you didn't attack people who debate it. Personally, I disagree with 'coherent ideology' being a hallmark of fascism (but I also suspect Bannon to have more to offer in that regard than Trump), and your use of the term 'anti-materialism'. Generally, I disagree that a check list is the right means to conclusively settle this question.

But most of all your response was beside the point I tried to make: It argues why the current situation is not analogous to Italy/Germany in the 1920s/30s and Trump is not Hitler, when the basis of my standpoint has been that the current situation is not analogous to Italy/Germany in the 1920s/30s and Trump is not Hitler. You seem so upset about the whole discussion that you haven't even noticed this despite me declaring it several times in two posts.

When I speak of fascistic tendencies (not 'fascist movement/society', mind) in regard to Trump and his social basis, I think of the following conglomerate of attitudes, ideologies and psychopathologies:

The nationalism/protectionism soaked with xenophobia. The deeply paranoid belief in conspiracies with definite antisemitic undertones. The hysterical reactions to dissent, threatening with imprisonment and violence up to murder. The suspense of the concepts of truth and accountability. A true dictator's relationship to law and elections as pure tools of power, meaningless in themselves. The conformist revolt's concept of an elitist being the 'champion of the working people' in the fight against 'the elites'. The ideological tale of decay, degeneration by liberalism, exploitation of the weak nation, and a saviour figure to lead the way 'back' to former glory. The leaders' well-documented inclination to lying, fraud, corruption, and crime not stopping his followers hailing him as a moral crusader against deceitfulness. The open endorsement of war crimes. The acceptance of support by white supremacists.

Things like that. The question is how far a political project based on a mindset like this can develop inside the political and socio-economic framework of the US. The public resistance is on, thankfully. All of this could be discussed but your decision to declare others clueless ideologists makes it pretty hard. I normally enjoy reading your posts, but we probably better stop that thing here.
 
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I seem to recall there was a way of checking where people have been voting from (country wise) I remember people doing it for the Brexit Petition. Can't find out how though.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Wait, hold on a sec. I thought his whole schtick was that he'd be able to free D.C. from gridlock, "making deals'? :smirk:
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These Japanese, Mexicans, Chinese, Democrats....they're so good at deals. We keep losing. I'm great at making deals, we'll be winning till you beg me to stop.
 
berbatrick said:
No, he hasn't (I'm assuming you're referring to the executive order). It's within his power to pass executive orders, its within the courts' to find them unlawful. Passing a law/order that violates some constitutional principle or some other law isn't illegal, it's part of the process. For example, had the SC found Obamacare illegal, Obama wouldn't have been guilty of anything (except not making it single payer /s)
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No I'm talking about his conflicts of interest that everyone seems to forgotten about.
Neutral said:
Yup...if anything sinks Trump in the future and that's a big if...it'll be financial and a conflict of interest...not, what executive order he signs or who he insults.
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As a a result of petition with currently 1.68m signatures, British Parliament will discuss 'tRump visit' on 20th February. (Sky News)

I'd imagine there will be a huge protest outside parliament on that day too. Im gonna go.
 
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langster said:
Without meaning to offend you, for me there is something seriously sad about your posts. Two or three times now you have posted in here about bigger problems in the world as if everyone in here is unaware of them or even ignoring them and only concerned with the USA, Trump and the problems his Presidency is causing the country and the rest of the world. However, you are missing one vital point I think, and that is this thread is the Donald Trump Presidency thread! All that is meant to be discussed here (aside from the odd off topic slip here and there) are things about Trumps Presidency.

Ironically your posts come across as very naïve and also very condescending and patronising, I guarantee you that everyone who posts in here is aware of many different problems around the world, obviously not ALL the problems, because there are simply too many to list, but that's not to say people are ignorant or unaware or that they don't care. You mention child marriages, well why didn't you mention that 1 in 6 Children in the UK live in poverty? or that there are an estimated 100,000 homeless CHILDREN in the UK? or why didn't you mention Nigeria's witch children? Or the poverty in Darfur? Quite simply this isn't the thread for that, there are threads for all those things in this forum, and if there isn't then please feel free to go and create new ones so you can discuss those things with other people, that is the point of this CE section of what is ultimately a football forum.
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I think he has a point personally. It's undeniable that this particular issue, and Trump's presidency in general, is seen to be far more topical than the many, many other atrocities in the world which are more harmful overall and effect a larger group of people. Well, it's undeniable on here at least - the volume of content makes that very easy to prove.

It's harder to prove if you're talking about global or national media coverage because it's so vast, but a quick glance at BBC shows 3 of the 5 most popular stories at the moment are Trump-related and, anecdotally speaking, that's seemed to be the theme for the past week or so.

I'm gonna assume you agree with the premise that Trump's dominating the headlines and much of the international discussions at the moment. If so, the question moves onto whether that's something to be concerned and sad about.

My personal view is it is. If issues of this magnitude or bigger were able to mobilise and unite the masses and dominate the media every time then it's hard not to think the world wouldn't be in a better place. Sadly the world doesn't work that way.

The media tells us about the things we want (consciously or subconsciously) to know about rather than what we need to know about. The small tidbits of info we do get about what we need to know about outside our bubble - the simple example of any number of social, political or economic issues in Africa is ever-present - it's very easily dismissed in our minds. Masses aren't mobilised and media coverage doesn't increase exponentially.

So what makes this different? I think there are some rational reasons, underpinned by the slightly concerning and saddening irrational reasons that speak to deeper part of our human nature.

In this case we're talking about one of the most powerful people in the world, it's right at the beginning of his reign of power and it's taking place in one of the founding nations of modern democracy. That makes it feel like people can make a difference with their voice, which isn't true of many issues. It's also a global issue - immigration - and as such it feels relevant to all of us.

The irrational part is at least equally as important though, IMO. If you take the UK as an example. We're from a developed economy, speak English as a native language, have a long standing relationship with the US and Trump will be on our doorstep in a few days' time. We get upset about it because it feels more relevant for us, more familiar to us, and thus is more worthy of our time. It goes back to our tribal nature. That's played a fundamental part in our survival and development as a species but at this stage, it's hard not to think it does more harm than good. In this particular case it's both the source of the issue (Trump going uber-tribal, both to appease his own tribal desires and those of a significant portion of the population) and the source of the reaction to it vs other international issues (it's relevant to our tribe so we care).
 
sammsky1 said:
As a a result of petition with currently 1.68m signatures, British Parliament will discuss 'tRump visit' on 20th February. (Sky News)

I'd imagine there will be a huge protest outside parliament on that day too. Im gonna go.
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Let us know which sign you'll carrying so we can watch out for you.
 
Crossie said:
Let us know which sign you'll carrying so we can watch out for you.
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MarriedWithChildren-AlBundy-ShootMe.jpg~c200
 
Regarding Chicago, what do Trump supporters think he should do there? So he goes in with 'the feds' and does something about gang murders. Do 'the feds' then stay there full-time? Will 'the feds' be doing something about the projects? What exactly?

I'm really not sure exactly what their solution is here. It sounds like more big government to me.
 
A friend of mine just called me. She's a banker and was taking a cigarette break in midtown Manhattan. A white girl approached her, shouted "feck Al Qaeda" and punched her in the face. She's absolutely hysterical at the moment and the police have been called.

Funny thing is that this girl is Indian and a staunch atheist.
 
Giant Midget said:
A friend of mine just called me. She's a banker and was taking a cigarette break in midtown Manhattan. A white girl approached her, shouted "feck Al Qaeda" and punched her in the face. She's absolutely hysterical at the moment and the police have been called.

Funny thing is that this girl is Indian and a staunch atheist.
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Good reason to give up the cigs.
 
Giant Midget said:
A friend of mine just called me. She's a banker and was taking a cigarette break in midtown Manhattan. A white girl approached her, shouted "feck Al Qaeda" and punched her in the face. She's absolutely hysterical at the moment and the police have been called.

Funny thing is that this girl is Indian and a staunch atheist.
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Disgusting....

No one gives a fcuk about AQ any more...all about ISIS now
 
I thought this speech the other night (great acting can change the world ffs) was embarrassing and didn't blame Winona for the reaction (she was so f-ing high)...but now I see what she was really reacting to -

 
Neutral said:
I thought this speech the other night (great acting can change the world ffs) was embarrassing and didn't blame Winona for the reaction (she was so f-ing high)...but now I see what she was really reacting to -

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I fecking hate luvvies speechifying at awards shows.
 
Brwned said:
I think he has a point personally. It's undeniable that this particular issue, and Trump's presidency in general, is seen to be far more topical than the many, many other atrocities in the world which are more harmful overall and effect a larger group of people. Well, it's undeniable on here at least - the volume of content makes that very easy to prove.

It's harder to prove if you're talking about global or national media coverage because it's so vast, but a quick glance at BBC shows 3 of the 5 most popular stories at the moment are Trump-related and, anecdotally speaking, that's seemed to be the theme for the past week or so.

I'm gonna assume you agree with the premise that Trump's dominating the headlines and much of the international discussions at the moment. If so, the question moves onto whether that's something to be concerned and sad about.

My personal view is it is. If issues of this magnitude or bigger were able to mobilise and unite the masses and dominate the media every time then it's hard not to think the world wouldn't be in a better place. Sadly the world doesn't work that way.

The media tells us about the things we want (consciously or subconsciously) to know about rather than what we need to know about. The small tidbits of info we do get about what we need to know about outside our bubble - the simple example of any number of social, political or economic issues in Africa is ever-present - it's very easily dismissed in our minds. Masses aren't mobilised and media coverage doesn't increase exponentially.

So what makes this different? I think there are some rational reasons, underpinned by the slightly concerning and saddening irrational reasons that speak to deeper part of our human nature.

In this case we're talking about one of the most powerful people in the world, it's right at the beginning of his reign of power and it's taking place in one of the founding nations of modern democracy. That makes it feel like people can make a difference with their voice, which isn't true of many issues. It's also a global issue - immigration - and as such it feels relevant to all of us.

The irrational part is at least equally as important though, IMO. If you take the UK as an example. We're from a developed economy, speak English as a native language, have a long standing relationship with the US and Trump will be on our doorstep in a few days' time. We get upset about it because it feels more relevant for us, more familiar to us, and thus is more worthy of our time. It goes back to our tribal nature. That's played a fundamental part in our survival and development as a species but at this stage, it's hard not to think it does more harm than good. In this particular case it's both the source of the issue (Trump going uber-tribal, both to appease his own tribal desires and those of a significant portion of the population) and the source of the reaction to it vs other international issues (it's relevant to our tribe so we care).
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which is all i was trying to say..... even if i did it badly
 
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Giant Midget said:
A friend of mine just called me. She's a banker and was taking a cigarette break in midtown Manhattan. A white girl approached her, shouted "feck Al Qaeda" and punched her in the face. She's absolutely hysterical at the moment and the police have been called.

Funny thing is that this girl is Indian and a staunch atheist.
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Appalling. Did the police catch the girl?
 
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