The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Flynn's arrogance and incompetency not playing well with Trump

People close to Mr. Bannon said he is not accumulating power for power’s sake, but is instead helping to fill a staff leadership vacuum created, in part, by Mr. Flynn’s stumbling performance as national security adviser.
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During the campaign, he often had unfettered access to the candidate, who appreciated his brash style and contempt for Hillary Clinton, but during the transition, Mr. Flynn privately complained about having to share face time with others.
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But Mr. Flynn, a lifelong Democrat sacked as head of the Pentagon’s intelligence arm after clashing with Obama administration officials in 2014, has gotten on the nerves of Mr. Trump and other administration officials because of his sometimes overbearing demeanor
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Mr. Flynn’s penchant for talking too much was on display on Friday in a meeting with Theresa May, the British prime minister, according to two people with direct knowledge of the events.

When Mrs. May said that she understood wanting a dialogue with Mr. Putin but stressed the need to be careful, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Flynn when the two were scheduled to speak.

Mr. Flynn replied it was Saturday — he had delayed it to fit in Mrs. May’s meeting for “protocol” as a United States ally, adding at length that Mr. Putin was impatient to chat.

Mr. Trump, the person said, appeared irritated by the response.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/...ald-trump-national-security-council.html?_r=0
 
Giggs86 said:
Libcafe :lol:

Anyways, Trump was elected and people need to respect that. Obviously a lot of people don't agree with him but what about the other 60 millions that do? Wishing him to fail and hoping for bans and sanctions :wenger:, while being a US citizen/resident is shooting yourself in the foot.
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What you mean in the same manner Pres Obama and we (I say we as someone who voted for him) were respected? Do I need to pull out the million examples where not just random posters on a forum, but elected Republicans said their main task was to ensure a political environment that would result in Obama being only in office for 1 term.

Nor have I forgotten Limbaugh on radio - saying he wanted Obama to fail (and he said this a potential radio audience of millions of Americans) and I remember the current VP Pence trying to play games with what Limbaugh said.

Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”
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Respecting the President and wanting him to succeed :lol:
 
Giggs86 said:
Libcafe :lol:

Anyways, Trump was elected and people need to respect that. Obviously a lot of people don't agree with him but what about the other 60 millions that do? Wishing him to fail and hoping for bans and sanctions :wenger:, while being a US citizen/resident is shooting yourself in the foot.
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This is the typical argument of a Trump supporter when they can't think of anything else to say.
 
Neutral said:
What you mean in the same manner Pres Obama and we (I say we as someone who voted for him) were respected? Do I need to pull out the million examples where not just random posters on a forum, but elected Republicans said their main task was to ensure a political environment that would result in Obama being only in office for 1 term.

Nor have I forgotten Limbaugh on radio - saying he wanted Obama to fail (and he said this a potential radio audience of millions of Americans) and I remember the current VP Pence trying to play games with what Limbaugh said.



Respecting the President and wanting him to succeed :lol:
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Cantor, Ryan and Boehner were actually ready to work with Obama after 2012 but when Cantor got tea-partied they all lost their nerve. At the time I laughed about it but the loss of Cantor and then Boehner giving up were disastrous for the country. They just let the nutters in their party dictate everything and now here we are. Even Ryan is too scared to go against the tide.
 
MTF said:
@PedroMendez On "fascism" and economic policy: although there is nothing concrete as of yet, you didn't get a sense of 1930s populists when he had auto CEOs in one day and then union leaders the next? Again, not relevant in the absence of policy, but there was always the desire in the 30s populists to be the arbiter of big business v organized labor. Obviously the economy couldn't be more different today, and by having the auto CEOs in and the union leaders nowadays you probably had less than 5% of the economy represented, but I thought it was a curious item to start on.
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But that is just one aspect of many. He is a narcissistic attention whore. Of course he wants that influential people are courting him.

I'd be very worried if he'd try to centralize and control the economy, but there is little indication that he is going to do that. All his stunts about “maintaining” a few jobs here and there are completely irrelevant if you look at the bigger picture; millions of people change their job each year. Bribing and threatening companies to keep jobs in America is extremely bad policy, but sadly almost all politicians do that. Obama pumped billions into the auto-industry. The difference is that Trump is doing it in the open via twitter

He specifically talked about reducing regulation and taxation. This is also one of the areas where he is in agreement with the GOP. You never know with Trump, but it seems plausible that they are trying to implement such policy.
He is a nationalist and consequently pushes for protectionism. That is fairly intrusive, harmful and stupid, but it doesn’t make him a fascist (or are parts of the left also fascists?).

I really don’t like these comparisons with the 30s, because the situation was completely different. In Germany, we learn a lot about this era in school and I read even more afterwards. I don’t see any meaningful similarities between the situation in the USA and this time. That doesn’t mean that Trump won’t do damage. His trade and immigration policy are both terrible and much more is going to follow.

Despite it being just factually wrong to call him a fascist there is an even bigger strategic problem with this. The respect for mainstream politicians, experts, the media and intellectuals is plummeting for (good) reasons. Yet all some people seem to do, is to turn up the volume of their message instead of some introspective. Further polarization of society by demonizing half of the voters as backwards hillbilly fascists is not going to change their opinion. I am not a big fan of Bill Maher, but I saw a fairly good youtube clip from his last episode about liberal outrage about laughable things (I struggle to find this link on my phone; I can post it later). That is not going to work. Trump needs to get push-back (e.g. like this Women’s march), but not with this whinny and moralizing narratives, that people who are not “part of your tribe” despise.
 
Grinner said:
Cantor, Ryan and Boehner were actually ready to work with Obama after 2012 but when Cantor got tea-partied they all lost their nerve. At the time I laughed about it but the loss of Cantor and then Boehner giving up were disastrous for the country. They just let the nutters in their party dictate everything and now here we are. Even Ryan is too scared to go against the tide.
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All these quotes were from 09/10 - Hence, Boehner saying if they won the House in the mid term elections.

The point remains - the other side can't not show respect for 8 years and now demand the same.
 
Grinner said:
Cantor, Ryan and Boehner were actually ready to work with Obama after 2012 but when Cantor got tea-partied they all lost their nerve. At the time I laughed about it but the loss of Cantor and then Boehner giving up were disastrous for the country. They just let the nutters in their party dictate everything and now here we are. Even Ryan is too scared to go against the tide.
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I don't think so. Boehner probably as I realized he developed a soft spot for Obama after he was invited to golf with him many times. It seems like Boehner eventually realized that Obama wasn't as bad (politically) as he initially thought. The problem he eventually faced was that he was unable to control his caucus and that was the beginning of his dislike for Congress and Republicans as a governing body. Cantor and Ryan are corporate bought hypocrites.
 
Giggs86 said:
Libcafe :lol:

Anyways, Trump was elected and people need to respect that. Obviously a lot of people don't agree with him but what about the other 60 millions that do? Wishing him to fail and hoping for bans and sanctions :wenger:, while being a US citizen/resident is shooting yourself in the foot.
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So was Hitler. Trump becoming President doesn't change a thing about the type of mind and man occupying the highest office on the planet...probably. We question his ability to do the job in a sane, calculated and well thought out manner that is required of the office and let's be honest here, his past doesn't exactly fill you with hope. A toilet would always smell like a toilet even though you've moved it to your living room.
 
Crossie said:
Alex Jones. That would bode well with the Narcissist's evangelical supporters.
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That would be hilarious. Would explain a lot tho, still can't figure out his angle and why he's stayed quiet on all this shite... In fact going the other way right into fake news overdrive.
 
Steve Bannon said:
"We're at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict," he told the conference. "This new barbarity that’s starting, that will completely eradicate everything that we've been bequeathed over the last 2,000, 2,500 years."
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-bannon-believes-were-already-113059101.html

Time to ramp up the war machine boys. It's a good thing we don't have a sycophantic government who will do whatever Trump asks...
 
Can we use Mussolini as an example from time to time?
 
Neutral said:
All these quotes were from 09/10 - Hence, Boehner saying if they won the House in the mid term elections.

The point remains - the other side can't not show respect for 8 years and now demand the same.
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There were some sane republicans. They just got intimidated by the Tea Party. They created the fecking TP though, so it's a mess all of their own making. Stoking up the rowdier repubs from 2008 onwards and dishonestly speaking about Obama and everything he was trying to do.

I'm praying that in the long-term, the republican party splits and allows dems to retake control.
 
Kentonio said:
The Nazis weren't mobilizing countless millions based on the extreme parts of their agenda either. They were elected on an authoritarian platform and used that power to destroy opposition and solidify their position. Most of the really extreme stuff that was done was excused by many people as the acts of lower level Nazis supposedly acting outside the wishes of Hitler. Complete nonsense of course, but it provided a great level of deniability for the guy on top.

The Nazi top brass were extremely materialistic. The only way you can call fascists anti-materialistic is that in that ideology the needs of the country come above all, which is usually used as an excuse to take from the people. It's not a wild stretch of the imagination to equate that to the removal of financial benefits such as subsidized healthcare or welfare in the name of 'making America great again'.

The top personal income tax rate in Germany in 1941 was only 13.7%. They also reduced a number of regulations, including notably relaxing the rules on gun ownership.

Try reading Mein Kampf sometime, it makes about as much sense as a Trump speech.

There have been many intellectuals over the years that have written quite compellingly that America could be the perfect place for a fascist regime to rise. It's hugely militaristic, has a highly propagandized press, a stunningly powerful military and intelligence agencies, extremely strong nationalism and a wildly religious majority.

As Sinclair Lewis is supposed to have said "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross".

It's funny you know, we constantly hear about how Europe's problems are supposedly so much bigger than everyone elses, yet America is in debt to the tune of 19 TRILLION dollars, has one of the most ideologically divided political systems on the planet and just elected a moron who has already disregarded the judicial system and basically all norms of political and diplomatic behaviour. I think Europe are doing just fine in comparison.
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Look, stop being dramatic and read a history book. I’ll come across as a prick during this post and I appologize beforehand.

The DVSTB alone had almost 200k members in the 20s. Extreme nationalism, chauvinism, racism, militarism and other parts of the Nazi ideology (e.g. anti-Semitism) weren’t some fringe ideology, but very much part of the mainstream. The SA had 400k members in 1933. It would take too long to explain you the rise of Hitler, but your comparison are simply nonsense.
Materialistic success in a fascist state is a means to an end (=> (military) power), but not an end in itself. Trump’s core promise was to help the economy to pick up, so people earn more money again (=>so they can buy a car or what not). Completely different things.
The level of income tax is absolutely meaningless, when you the whole economy is centrally controlled. Google “Wehrwirtschaft” and you might learn a thing to two. This comment shows a level of ignorance that is genuinely baffling. You seem to know absolutely nothing about this time.

Yes, Europe has bigger problems. More or less similar debt levels (90% vs 104%), less economic growth, the economy is less innovative, while new nationalism is threatening to destroy the EU. The banking sector is extremely fargile, because it failed to deleverage (which US banks did at least to some extend), while the currency union is just a big cluster-feck. Additionally you have a huge influx of migrants, which creates further problems and additional back-lash against mainstream politicians. Various countries in Eastern Europe already elected nationalistic idiots and GB voted for brexit.
 
Boehner had always said that being his job was like controlling a wheelbarrow full of frogs (or something similar).
Has Boehner ever opened up on why he stepped down?
I thought the timing of it, just after me met with the Pope, was a bit odd.
 
Grinner said:
There were some sane republicans. They just got intimidated by the Tea Party. They created the fecking TP though, so it's a mess all of their own making. Stoking up the rowdier repubs from 2008 onwards and dishonestly speaking about Obama and everything he was trying to do.

I'm praying that in the long-term, the republican party splits and allows dems to retake control.
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Who could forget? Sarah Palin was a kingmaker back then :lol:
 
Luis Gutierrez said that Ryan told him that his catholic faith did not allow him to sit idle and allow an underclass of people to grow and continue suffering in the modern USA.

I think Ryan has maybe forgotten this.

As for Palin, let's not forget which idiot it was that inflicted her on the world. He's moaning now but bears a major responsibility for the rise of Trump.
 
Neutral said:
Uber CEO: Fcuk this shit...why am I getting all the hate...
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Around 50000 people deleted uber from thier phones yesterday, myself included!
 
Giggs86 said:
Libcafe :lol:

Anyways, Trump was elected and people need to respect that. Obviously a lot of people don't agree with him but what about the other 60 millions that do? Wishing him to fail and hoping for bans and sanctions :wenger:, while being a US citizen/resident is shooting yourself in the foot.
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Nah we wont we will still call out bullshit artists on here. How did that respect work out for the black president then? How did that go?
 
Just got home from work and Mum/Sisters/Cousins are going protesting in Liverpool tonight. Putting to one side whether you agree with it or not, they are doing their signs now and need clever slogans! Ideas on a postcard. Or PM if mods prefer.
 
Ady87 said:
Just got home from work and Mum/Sisters/Cousins are going protesting in Liverpool tonight. Putting to one side whether you agree with it or not, they are doing their signs now and need clever slogans! Ideas on a postcard. Or PM if mods prefer.
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"No ifs, no buts, no orange toupeed cnuts".
 
As they should. Jon Meacham pointed out that originally there were 6 justices. The repubs are all about constitutional originalism.
 
Ady87 said:
Just got home from work and Mum/Sisters/Cousins are going protesting in Liverpool tonight. Putting to one side whether you agree with it or not, they are doing their signs now and need clever slogans! Ideas on a postcard. Or PM if mods prefer.
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Against Trump in general? Or against Trump's muslin ban? Or his State Visit to the UK?
 
Sarni said:
This is difficulty I am having watching this all from 6,000 km away. I'm not even sure what's serious anymore because it all feels so unreal. In some capacity it feels that electing Trump to be the president of the US is exactly what is wrong about democracy.
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:drool:
Small govt

That pivot will be happening any second now.
 
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