The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Cheesy said:
California would have a major influence, but it'd be far from completely dictating the result...and besides, what's wrong with it doing so if that's where people live? Sure, it might suck being in a rural state with less people, but then why should you get more power than people who live in a bigger state just because you're in a more remote area? People vote...not places.

State governments are in place to represent the concerns of rural voters in small states anyway, and if they feel marginalised they can put pressure on the government to listen to them. Even if the electoral college is to be kept, it still need to be re-balanced in order to take away the absurdly disproportionate power smaller states have compared to larger ones right now.
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That's fair enough. I genuinely haven't looked at the debate from both sides in any great detail. I have heard a debate between two sides once before and I remember somewhat agreeing that the popular vote wasn't a great solution.

what's wrong with it doing so if that's where people live?
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I do agree that it's not necessarily a huge problem on paper. But it would cause uproar I imagine to change things now.
 
Rado_N said:
It's staggeringly stupid to suggest that abstaining from voting didn't partly cause the result.

If all the "Bernie or bust" idiots and people who decided to vote for Stein or Johnson as some kind of deluded "protest" had voted to stop Trump instead than we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

If you're in that category and don't like the fact that you're partly to blame that's just tough, the simple fact is that you are.
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It's so fecking immature. Being an adult involves making loads of tough decisions. You often have to choose the "least bad". That's life. You don't get to flounce off and do nothing because your perfect outcome isn't one of the choices available.
 
langster said:
You know all those recent reports of The Moron's advisors all being extremely uncomfortable about him mentioning voter fraud? And all the inside leaks about how against it they all were? Well..............





What do you think they will all make of that? What a complete and utter waste of fecking tax payers money. He's completely unhinged, deluded beyond words and he's tripping his tiny balls off on the power. He absolutely must be stopped!

Oh and.........

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This is fed to him from sources like Breitbart and Infowars, The new alternate facts
 
Minimalist said:
Maybe I'm not clear on the details but how would the popular vote not pretty much allow the likes of California to dictate the election every time?

I mean the popular vote is what got us Brexit despite N. Ireland, Scotland and London voting largely against it.
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California dictate? Why state it that way?
I see Cheesy has stated what I was going to try.
 
Minimalist said:
Maybe I'm not clear on the details but how would the popular vote not pretty much allow the likes of California to dictate the election every time?

I mean the popular vote is what got us Brexit despite N. Ireland, Scotland and London voting largely against it.
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Tell me how this is fair...

The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote.

In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters.
 
Minimalist said:
Can you elaborate?
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Look at the size of Texas.

At the end of the day, people are votes, not bogs, fields or trees. Diluting someone's political voice just because of where they are born or chosen to live goes against every basic principle of democracy.

Anyway, it's pretty pointless blaming the likes of Johnson and Stein voters for the election. 70 millions eligible voters didn't show up.
 
senorgregster said:
Tell me how this is fair...

The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote.

In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters.
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senorgregster said:
California would dictate nothing. States aren't people.
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InfiniteBoredom said:
Look at the size of Texas.

At the end of the day, people are votes, not bogs, fields or trees. Diluting someone's political voice just because of where they are born or chosen to live goes against every basic principle of democracy.
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Seemingly I've been ignorant of how it all works. Good to know.
 
To be fair I thought the wall was definitely something he would do. As in, one of his promises that Congress would indulge him with.

Mexico paying for it is another matter.
 
If he truly wants to, can't he go batshit crazy with imposing taxes on Mexican goods and remove all aid they pay Mexico? Also he can tax goods from US firms who have outsourced their production to Mexico, while simultanously giving them subsidies to come home to the US of A.

They'll likely do the same with taxing US products going into Mexico, so in the end both lose.

But he is just the guy to do it, simply to prove a point. And honestly I think they would budge in the end and come to some agreement stating "Mutual interests in stopping drugs going north and guns going south" as the reason or something.
 
The interstate compact is the sanest solution. Doesn't require a constitutional amendment, maintains the state-based aspect of it but allows sanity to prevail when mismatches like last November happen.
 
SwansonsTache said:
If he truly wants to, can't he go batshit crazy with imposing taxes on Mexican goods and remove all aid they pay Mexico? Also he can tax goods from US firms who have outsourced their production to Mexico, while simultanously giving them subsidies to come home to the US of A.

They'll likely do the same with taxing US products going into Mexico, so in the end both lose.

But he is just the guy to do it, simply to prove a point. And honestly I think they would budge in the end and come to some agreement stating "Mutual interests in stopping drugs going north and guns going south" as the reason or something.
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He can't without congress. And I doubt the republicans are up for shit like that, especially since a lot of US based production is only possible and competetive because parts are build and delivered from Mexico.
 
fcbforever said:
He can't without congress. And I doubt the republicans are up for shit like that, especially since a lot of US based production is only possible and competetive because parts are build and delivered from Mexico.
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He can impose tariffs via Executive Orders is he so wishes.

President-elect Donald Trump's transition team is discussing a proposal to impose tariffs as high as 10% on imports, according to multiple sources. A senior Trump transition official said Thursday the team is mulling up to a 10% tariff aimed at spurring US manufacturing, which could be implemented via executive action or as part of a sweeping tax reform package they would push through Congress.
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Nobody in his support base cares for who pays for it, as long as a wall or some physical structure gets built. Looks like he'll get away with that one. Moving goalposts had long started, that US will pay for it now and then recoup it later, it'll be done through trade deficits, or the jobs moved as part of Auto Industry to US is already paying for it etc etc
 
Saw these comments on The Gaurdian:

"In general, the men of lower intelligence won out. Afraid of their own shortcomings and of the intelligence of their opponents, so that they would not lose out in reasoned argument or be taken by surprise by their quick-witted opponents, they boldly moved into action. Their enemies, on the contrary, contemptuous and confident in their ability to anticipate, thought there was no need to take by action what they could win by their brains." – Thucydides 460 – 395 BCE

Phillip Tetlock tweet, 1.23.17: "straight from Machiavelli: Lions make history. And the hedgehogs and foxes quarrel over how best to make sense of what the lions have done"
That tweet references this from Karl Rove:
"We're the empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
 
fishfingers15 said:
Nobody in his support base cares for who pays for it, as long as a wall or some physical structure gets built. Looks like he'll get away with that one. Moving goalposts had long started, that US will pay for it now and then recoup it later, it'll be done through trade deficits, or the jobs moved as part of Auto Industry to US is already paying for it etc etc
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I'm not even sure why the cost of the wall matters....we give away BILLIONS to Israel every year. BILLIONS. So, if a wall costs $20bil, so what???

Question is - will it work, will it be effective??
 
Neutral said:
I'm not even sure why the cost of the wall matters....we give away BILLIONS to Israel every year. BILLIONS. So, if a wall costs $20bil, so what???

Question is - will it work, will it be effective??
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It matters because Trump promised to use Mexico's funds in campaign. Either he knowingly lied that Mexico will pay or he is not able to deliver on his promises. It's the sort of stuff that was used to beat up Obama for his ACA act, but it looks like Trump doesn't need to adhere to any of those standards.
 
fishfingers15 said:
It matters because Trump promised to use Mexico's funds in campaign. Either he knowingly lied that Mexico will pay or he is not able to deliver on his promises. It's the sort of stuff that was used to beat up Obama for his ACA act, but it looks like Trump doesn't need to adhere to any of those standards.
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I think we should agree to disagree about the facts.
 
Grinner said:
Saw these comments on The Gaurdian:

"In general, the men of lower intelligence won out. Afraid of their own shortcomings and of the intelligence of their opponents, so that they would not lose out in reasoned argument or be taken by surprise by their quick-witted opponents, they boldly moved into action. Their enemies, on the contrary, contemptuous and confident in their ability to anticipate, thought there was no need to take by action what they could win by their brains." – Thucydides 460 – 395 BCE

Phillip Tetlock tweet, 1.23.17: "straight from Machiavelli: Lions make history. And the hedgehogs and foxes quarrel over how best to make sense of what the lions have done"
That tweet references this from Karl Rove:
"We're the empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
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Damn! I gotta go do.. something.
 
Neutral said:
Reports indicate that @realDonaldTrump will suspend visas from the following countries:
-Syria -Iraq -Iran -Libya -Somalia -Sudan -Yemen
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Minimalist said:
No Saudi Arabia though.

At least be consistent feck sake.
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Neutral said:
Key ally Saudi Arabia? Not even close bud. Shame the Iranians have been roped in with the rest - not too many Shia terrorists blowing themselves up all across the western world.
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Most if the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi and the Saudis despise the USA and everything it stands for.... Its does not make sense to let them apply for visas and those other countries cannot?

Trumps supporters will love this tho
 
Neutral said:
I'm not even sure why the cost of the wall matters....we give away BILLIONS to Israel every year. BILLIONS. So, if a wall costs $20bil, so what???

Question is - will it work, will it be effective??
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Just curious, why does Israel get billions from the US? What does the US get in return?
 
ravi2 said:
Most if the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi and the Saudis despise the USA and everything it stands for.... Its does not make sense to let them apply for visas and those other countries cannot?

Trumps supporters will love this tho
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Well aware most of the attackers were Saudi. I am the biggest critic of the House of Saud. If the media worked half as hard on the Saudis as they did on Iran - the entire world would be up in arms about the f-ing Saudis. But - Saudi Arabia is the counterbalance to Iran in the ME. I'm sure in my lifetime, the Saudis will get what's coming to them...but, it won't be anytime soon.
 
Trump do business in Saudi Arabia so it would be counter productive for him to cause any major rift with the Saudis. This is just another reason why conflict of interest need to be dealt with regarding Trump and hes business dealings.
 
Neutral said:
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:lol:

Remember there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans....Oh and Hillary is JUST THE WORST
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Thoughts @Red Dreams
 
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