The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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barros said:
In first place I know for a fact Portugal for example is not spending what was agreeded and besides U.K. and Greece probably no country is using I believe the 2.1% and 0.3 from 10 trillion of dollars is a lot of money, also calm down and enjoy the next 4 years with trump or Pence.
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So you really belief an increase in EU defense budget would mean a decrease of US defense budget? You can't really be that daft can you?
 
You know all those recent reports of The Moron's advisors all being extremely uncomfortable about him mentioning voter fraud? And all the inside leaks about how against it they all were? Well..............





What do you think they will all make of that? What a complete and utter waste of fecking tax payers money. He's completely unhinged, deluded beyond words and he's tripping his tiny balls off on the power. He absolutely must be stopped!

Oh and.........

 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Nope and nope. See Kerry 2004/Gore 2000.

I'm not saying she did well (surprised), but it's not the clusterfeck that's being portrayed. That letter didn't come out and she would most likely win by 1-2% in all those states, inc. Florida, which just about match Obama 2012 margin.



I know how to think for myself, thank you very much. As a communist myself, jacobinmag can do one.
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Look, I'm not elevating W. but he was superior to Trump both as a politician and a man.
 
He makes the Supreme Court choice announcement sound like "Make sure you tune-in because it's a double rollover this week!"
 
Akash said:
No, it's not. Don't be ridiculous.
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I have seen in your following posts. I think we just have different view points. IMO, one must always vote and your vote should always be in defense of your best interest. There was no reason for any progressive or left leaning person in America to vote for Stein or Johnson imo. It's not like our system where a a sizable portion of the vote can give a minority party like the Lib Dems, real power. What's worse imo, is staying at home when so much is at stake.
 
Akash said:
The only people responsible for Trump coming into power are the people who voted for Trump. Blaming people who exercised their democratic right by voting for who they wanted or not at all is stupid.
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So, you can't apportion blame to people who exercised their democratic right...apart from those who used it to vote for Trump? It's a narrow, self interested view of democracy IMO.

They weren't voting for Best Kiss at the MTV awards, they were voting for the leader of the free world. Both sides knew the consequences, and the effects of their actions upon them. It was self righteous grandstanding in the middle of a car crash. Fiddling while Rome burned. Sure they had every "right" to do it, but they can't simply wash their hands of it now because it makes them feel uncomfortable. They contributed to it. Whatever their motives.
 
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@langster Republicans have been going on about voter fraud for years now - this has gotten worse since Obama got the black and immigrant vote out in huge numbers.

Each year, state by state they've worked to make voting NOT easier but a more difficult task. The supreme court of course helped them by saying the VRA was no longer necessary.

There will be a sham investigation - with bullshit conclusions - end result will be even tougher voter ID laws, targeting you know who.
 
Is he actually going to build a wall along the southern border?!
 
SirAF said:
Look, I'm not elevating W. but he was superior to Trump both as a politician and a man.
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You are free to go back to as many elections as you like. A 46/47% polling average is par for the course. Obama was pretty unique in his strong appeal to Midwest voters, which made his re-election much easier than it shows in the national polling average.

Clinton failed so it's inevitable people would try to extrapolate the event depending on their personal preference/bias, but speaking strictly from data there's little to support this idea that she's a uniquely weak Democratic candidate.
 
Neutral said:
@langster Republicans have been going on about voter fraud for years now - this has gotten worse since Obama got the black and immigrant vote out in huge numbers.

Each year, state by state they've worked to make voting NOT easier but a more difficult task. The supreme court of course helped them by saying the VRA was no longer necessary.

There will be a sham investigation - with bullshit conclusions - end result will be even tougher voter ID laws, targeting you know who.
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Yeah, I remember all the problems during the build up to the election and Bernie was hot on the problems in certain districts. There were also lawsuits filed and the Republicans made it almost impossible for minority voters to cast their vote in certain districts and states. However, Trump is banging on about 3-5 million people in a daft conspiracy theory he harps on about because he can't handle the fact he lost the popular vote. Lets not forget Jill Stein already paid for investigations in to voter fraud and there was found to be no problems at all. I understand what you are saying, and I agree it's a massive problem, I think the Republicans will be happy to entertain the President on this one because it completely suits their agenda, although he's looking at it from a completely selfish and petty point of view. Whichever way you look at it, it's wrong, an abuse of power and a complete waste of time, effort and money, not to mention pathetic and childish and he shouldn't be tweeting about things so flippantly. He's making a mockery of the country and people he serves and he really needs to be stopped.
 
Neutral said:
@langster Republicans have been going on about voter fraud for years now - this has gotten worse since Obama got the black and immigrant vote out in huge numbers.

Each year, state by state they've worked to make voting NOT easier but a more difficult task. The supreme court of course helped them by saying the VRA was no longer necessary.

There will be a sham investigation - with bullshit conclusions - end result will be even tougher voter ID laws, targeting you know who.
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The result will show there were 2,864,904 illegal votes. All dem of course.
 
What exactly does he aim to prove by trying to investigate voter fraud?

What will he do about the fraudulent ones who voted for him?
 
Mockney said:
So, you can't apportion blame to people who exercised their democratic right...apart from those who used it to vote for Trump? It's a narrow, self interested view of democracy IMO.

They weren't voting for Best Kiss at the MTV awards, they were voting for the leader of the free world. Both sides knew the consequences, and the effects of their actions upon them. It was self righteous grandstanding in the middle of a car crash. Fiddling while Rome burned. Sure it was their right, but they can have no complaints now. They contributed to it. Whatever their motives.
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I didn't use the word blame, you did. And yes, it seems logical to point out the millions of voters who actually voted for Trump as the reason he's in power not the few who didn't.
 
If there's so many illegal votes then the only logical result should be another election. Fire away Mr. President.
 
Minimalist said:
If there's so many illegal votes then the only logical result should be another election. Fire away Mr. President.
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Yep, it's such a bizarre stance. He's pretty much trying to say the election he won was tainted?:lol:
 
Akash said:
I'm sure they grasped it alright. Why vote for people you don't want to when the process allows you to abstain? That is precisely why that option is there.
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Because it's spectacularly stupid, that's why. The fact that literally millions of people failed to grasp that the lesser of two evils is the best outcome for their country is staggering. Oh well. This is a painful lesson they'll learn over the next several years.
 
Do you guys think the outcome of this election would have gone the other way if Americans weren't "allowed" to vote but voting was obligatory? In Belgium (and probably other countries) we need to go out and vote. You can vote blank but you have to show up. You can get a fine up to 250€ (300$) if you don't show up.
 
Akash said:
I'm sure they grasped it alright. Why vote for people you don't want to when the process allows you to abstain? That is precisely why that option is there.
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Because one of the two will win no matter what, and you might as well help out ensuring that the lesser evil wins. Anything else is just stupid.

Edit: Missed @Pogue Mahone's post that said basically the same!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because it's spectacularly stupid, that's why. The fact that literally millions of people failed to grasp that the lesser of two evils is the best outcome for their country is staggering. Oh well. This is a painful lesson they'll learn over the next several years.
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Don't really agree. it's a ridiculous view point to hold but whatever.
 
Akash said:
Don't really agree. it's a ridiculous view point to hold but whatever.
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I understand what you're saying but in this case it was clear there was only going to be two candidates in contention. If you're even remotely left-wing, liberal or even centre-right, then the mildly corrupt Democrat with plenty of political experience and a relatively centrist agenda with some left-wing figures on her side was a far, far better choice than the corrupt, far-right populist maniac whose repeal of Obamacare will likely lead to thousands of deaths without a proper replacement and whose environmental damage may be catastrophic. Voting for someone else, or abstaining to feel good about said choice, would seem rather pointless if Trump has a devastating impact upon America.
 
It's staggeringly stupid to suggest that abstaining from voting didn't partly cause the result.

If all the "Bernie or bust" idiots and people who decided to vote for Stein or Johnson as some kind of deluded "protest" had voted to stop Trump instead than we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

If you're in that category and don't like the fact that you're partly to blame that's just tough, the simple fact is that you are.
 
onemanarmy said:
Do you guys think the outcome of this election would have gone the other way if Americans weren't "allowed" to vote but voting was obligatory? In Belgium (and probably other countries) we need to go out and vote. You can vote blank but you have to show up. You can get a fine up to 250€ (300$) if you don't show up.
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Impossible to know I suspect. After all, it was only 80000 ish votes that won it for him in the key states.
 
Rado_N said:
It's staggeringly stupid to suggest that abstaining from voting didn't partly cause the result.

If all the "Bernie or bust" idiots and people who decided to vote for Stein or Johnson as some kind of deluded "protest" had voted to stop Trump instead than we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

If you're in that category and don't like the fact that you're partly to blame that's just tough, the simple fact is that you are.
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Depends on your state. Only a few states decide. Not very democratic for the best democracy in the world.
 
onemanarmy said:
Do you guys think the outcome of this election would have gone the other way if Americans weren't "allowed" to vote but voting was obligatory? In Belgium (and probably other countries) we need to go out and vote. You can vote blank but you have to show up. You can get a fine up to 250€ (300$) if you don't show up.
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I hear this propostion quite often but many countries have these laws and it doesn't help. In fact Belgium is probably the best example that mandatory voting laws are not improving the outcome of elections. That said it adds a bit of entertainment, because you often get some funny candidates (e.g. Jesus, Bin Laden, Superheros). It is also great, because sometimes some of these clowns ("Tiririca") actually win their seat.
 
Rado_N said:
It's staggeringly stupid to suggest that abstaining from voting didn't partly cause the result.

If all the "Bernie or bust" idiots and people who decided to vote for Stein or Johnson as some kind of deluded "protest" had voted to stop Trump instead than we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

If you're in that category and don't like the fact that you're partly to blame that's just tough, the simple fact is that you are.
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Absolutely.
 
langster said:
You know all those recent reports of The Moron's advisors all being extremely uncomfortable about him mentioning voter fraud? And all the inside leaks about how against it they all were? Well..............





What do you think they will all make of that? What a complete and utter waste of fecking tax payers money. He's completely unhinged, deluded beyond words and he's tripping his tiny balls off on the power. He absolutely must be stopped!

Oh and.........

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It would be hilarious if the investigation snowballed out of his hands and either incriminated him or saw his lead diminish.
 
Cheesy said:
Far better than the flawed electoral college.
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Maybe I'm not clear on the details but how would the popular vote not pretty much allow the likes of California to dictate the election every time?

I mean the popular vote is what got us Brexit despite N. Ireland, Scotland and London voting largely against it.
 
Isn't this merely an expensive vanity project, instigated just because Trumpy can't accept that he lost the popular vote?
 
Minimalist said:
Maybe I'm not clear on the details but how would the popular vote not pretty much allow the likes of California to dictate the election every time?

I mean the popular vote is what got us Brexit despite N. Ireland, Scotland and London voting largely against it.
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California would have a major influence, but it'd be far from completely dictating the result...and besides, what's wrong with it doing so if that's where people live? Sure, it might suck being in a rural state with less people, but then why should you get more power than people who live in a bigger state just because you're in a more remote area? People vote...not places.

State governments are in place to represent the concerns of rural voters in small states anyway, and if they feel marginalised they can put pressure on the government to listen to them. Even if the electoral college is to be kept, it still need to be re-balanced in order to take away the absurdly disproportionate power smaller states have compared to larger ones right now.
 
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