The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Will Absolute said:
I don't know how you can say that. The repeal and replacement of Obamacare is top order of business for the Republican congress. Funding for the wall is being incorporated into a bill due to come before Congress shortly. Draining the swamp is of course impossible. Everybody in Washington would die of asphyxiation.
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Who will be paying for the wall again?
 
Raoul said:
It would take a confluence of events for that to happen - first, he would need to be perceived by his base as not fulfilling some of his primary campaign promises. Most notably building the wall, repeal and replace Obamacare, drain the swamp etc. He's well on his way of not doing any of those. Second, he would need to be dogged by persistent conflict of interest rumors related to his business, Russia, et al. Third, he would need to be perceived as incompetent and a puppet of foreign influence who continues to use his Presidency to shield himself from further investigation into the matter. Fourth, he would need to be plagued by something he does that is considered impeachable (such as being in violation of the emoluments clause on day 1). And fifth and most importantly, he would have to do something to estrange himself from Ryan and McConnell so that they view him as more of an impediment than a vehicle towards enacting their agenda. If all five of these things happen, he will be on very thin ice.
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Of course Trump isn't draining the swamp. He's replacing Washington's swamp with his very own swamp. It tells a lot about his supporters that they either don't get it or don't care.
 
I see that Intelligence is only to be considered important when it directly affects him, not the nation.
 
SteveJ said:
I see that Intelligence is only to be considered important when it directly affects him, not the nation.
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Yep, a very dangerous precedent, especially as if rumored, he puts his own people in the intelligence services who only present him with what he wants to hear.
 
Il Volo, an italian pop trio, has refused to sing for Trump on Inauguration Day because they don't agree with his xenophobic and racist claims.
 
Trump has already explained away the wall: the trade damage done to Mexico will "pay" for the wall.
 
Raoul said:
They might also turn into Martians and fly away to another planet. Until they have a solid replace strategy (which they don't) they are extremely vulnerable to the consequences of dumping millions off their insurance plans.
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You underestimate their power to repackage, paint it as a win, and then have the media broadcast that win.
 
berbatrick said:
You underestimate their power to repackage, paint it as a win, and then have the media broadcast that win.
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There's nothing to repackage. Whatever they do, people will be knocked out of coverage and that's what matters to the average voter.
 
Red Dreams said:
His base does not care if he builds a wall or not. They know it was bluster.
Obamacare. The majority want it. The fuss is about the cost. If they repeal it and replace it where the coverage is the same and the cost goes down, there wont be an issue.
His base are not to bothered about the Russian hacks, conflict of interests.
As for McConnell and Ryan. They are far from popular with the base. They see them as the establishment who screwed them. They wont have the guts to try and impeach him, even if there were tangible reasons.
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Raoul said:
They might also turn into Martians and fly away to another planet. Until they have a solid replace strategy (which they don't) they are extremely vulnerable to the consequences of dumping millions off their insurance plans.
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I believe you both are wrong about ACA, but happy to be corrected. Majority don't want it. You can see the pressure for a repeal and replace, with pushing through the repeal option even if there is not a replacement available. Either 20 million is a negligible population that the rest don't care about, or the voice of 20 million is being muted by the loud noise of conservatives.

I'm intrigued by what is the success criteria of the new law? Is it people covered under the new law? keeping cost low even if it means some are not covered? Both are not possible, as Obama found out.
 
berbatrick said:
Trump has already explained away the wall: the trade damage done to Mexico will "pay" for the wall.
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I'm pretty sure t hat this is the case. Trump will dress it up as cost saved due to all the jobs moving back to US because of border tax threat.

Raoul said:
Yep. Not very conservative is it.
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There is nothing conservative about threatening companies with border tax though. This is populism, not conservative.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I believe you both are wrong about ACA, but happy to be corrected. Majority don't want it. You can see the pressure for a repeal and replace, with pushing through the repeal option even if there is not a replacement available. Either 20 million is a negligible population that the rest don't care about, or the voice of 20 million is being muted by the loud noise of conservatives.

I'm intrigued by what is the success criteria of the new law? Is it people covered under the new law? keeping cost low even if it means some are not covered? Both are not possible, as Obama found out.
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Throwing 24m people off healthcare will have a massive effect on American politics - most notably on those seeking repeal the law. People who previously voted GOP who are getting thrown out of their insurance coverage will probably take their votes elsewhere. This is a potentially explosive issue in American politics because it directly affects people's health.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I'm pretty sure t hat this is the case. Trump will dress it up as cost saved due to all the jobs moving back to US because of border tax threat.



There is nothing conservative about threatening companies with border tax though. This is populism, not conservative.
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That's true, but its not the Democrats who will be blamed for Trump's policies. Its the Republicans.
 
Raoul said:
Throwing 24m people off healthcare will have a massive effect on American politics - most notably on those seeking repeal the law. People who previously voted GOP who are getting thrown out of their insurance coverage will probably take their votes elsewhere. This is a potentially explosive issue in American politics because it directly affects people's health.
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I was pretty sure about this Raoul, before my visit to Utah, Nevada and Arizona. Maybe it is anecdotal, but almost everyone I met wanted ACA repealed even if it meant that they would lose healthcare coverage. Some suggested that they want it repealed because they don't trust the government as it would facilitate Government having access to their healthcare records, which in turn would be used to take away their guns. Maybe GOP is right in calculating that the lost 20 million votes maybe gained by having other independents coming to their fold due to reduced premiums. Say if the new law doesn't cover 20 million people, but only covers 8 million people for a much reduced cost, does GOP gain those 8 million votes? Would that law be considered a success? Somehow, I think we are still misjudging the will of the people here.

Maybe I've turned pessimistic
 
fishfingers15 said:
I was pretty sure about this Raoul, before my visit to Utah, Nevada and Arizona. Maybe it is anecdotal, but almost everyone I met wanted ACA repealed even if it meant that they would lose healthcare coverage. Some suggested that they want it repealed because they don't trust the government as it would facilitate Government having access to their healthcare records, which in turn would be used to take away their guns. Maybe GOP is right in calculating that the lost 20 million votes maybe gained by having other independents coming to their fold due to reduced premiums. Say if the new law doesn't cover 20 million people, but only covers 8 million people for a much reduced cost, does GOP gain those 8 million votes? Would that law be considered a success? Somehow, I think we are still misjudging the will of the people here.

Maybe I've turned pessimistic
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Yes, it would be a success if they could make sure that those it excludes are Dem voters.


Edit: look at the unemployment rates among minority youth. Prime Dem voters.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I was pretty sure about this Raoul, before my visit to Utah, Nevada and Arizona. Maybe it is anecdotal, but almost everyone I met wanted ACA repealed even if it meant that they would lose healthcare coverage. Some suggested that they want it repealed because they don't trust the government as it would facilitate Government having access to their healthcare records, which in turn would be used to take away their guns. Maybe GOP is right in calculating that the lost 20 million votes maybe gained by having other independents coming to their fold due to reduced premiums. Say if the new law doesn't cover 20 million people, but only covers 8 million people for a much reduced cost, does GOP gain those 8 million votes? Would that law be considered a success? Somehow, I think we are still misjudging the will of the people here.

Maybe I've turned pessimistic
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Its probably more anecdotal than the broader outlook. A significant chunk of people now receiving coverage under Obamacare are Republicans with various health issues, who will be affected if they try to pull the carpet from underneath them. This is one of those issues where the political bluster of repealing Obamacare is usurped by the incredible impact it will have on real people, who will be kicked off coverage and may not be able to afford it otherwise.
 
Raoul said:
Its probably more anecdotal than the broader outlook. A significant chunk of people now receiving coverage under Obamacare are Republicans with various health issues, who will be affected if they try to pull the carpet from underneath them. This is one of those issues where the political bluster of repealing Obamacare is usurped by the incredible impact it will have on real people, who will be kicked off coverage and may not be able to afford it otherwise.
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Let us see. I think we'll see a lot of outrage which won't transfer to votes for the Dems.

berbatrick said:
Yes, it would be a success if they could make sure that those it excludes are Dem voters.


Edit: look at the unemployment rates among minority youth. Prime Dem voters.
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But young people don't sign up for ACA anyway. One of Obama's pet peeves was that young people didn't sign up for ACA to drive the price down.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Let us see. I think we'll see a lot of outrage which won't transfer to votes for the Dems.



But young people don't sign up for ACA anyway. One of Obama's pet peeves was that young people didn't sign up for ACA to drive the price down.
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They might go after the provision the children can continue on their parents' plans? I don't know, I'm speculating. I think they will in some reduced form take care of their older base to make sure they are spared of the political fallout.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I believe you both are wrong about ACA, but happy to be corrected. Majority don't want it. You can see the pressure for a repeal and replace, with pushing through the repeal option even if there is not a replacement available. Either 20 million is a negligible population that the rest don't care about, or the voice of 20 million is being muted by the loud noise of conservatives.

I'm intrigued by what is the success criteria of the new law? Is it people covered under the new law? keeping cost low even if it means some are not covered? Both are not possible, as Obama found out.
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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/05/near...macare-repeal-as-congress-moves-to-do-so.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ob...ation-extends-deadline-healthcare-gov-n696931

Lots of misinformation/disinformation out there. The key is most want the coverage.

Also the argument for single payer can only be made by someone who is trusted. Sanders ticks that box. Even Republicans have said they would have voted for him if they could not have voted for Trump.
 
berbatrick said:
They might go after the provision the children can continue on their parents' plans? I don't know, I'm speculating. I think they will in some reduced form take care of their older base to make sure they are spared of the political fallout.
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Yeah I guess so. I just think this 'If you repeal ACA, you're committing political suicide' idea is not the absolute truth as it is made out to be by the analysts and media. People are happy to see ACA repealed, even by people who benefit because of it. Just hope that Dems won't misjudge the mood of the people.

Ramshock said:
Was addressed to Raoul :lol: I get the impression you are pro Drumpf
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I sure am :lol: I even know the prophet who predicted Drumpf's victory @Red Dreams
 
Red Dreams said:
Next month we will know who the DNC chair will be. If it is anyone other than Ellison, we will have another corporate stooge and the Democratic party will be on its way to be even further estranged from its voters.
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They should go with Ellison, but describing Tom Perez as a corporate stooge is absurd.
 
Red Dreams said:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/05/near...macare-repeal-as-congress-moves-to-do-so.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ob...ation-extends-deadline-healthcare-gov-n696931

Lots of misinformation/disinformation out there. The key is most want the coverage.

Also the argument for single payer can only be made by someone who is trusted. Sanders ticks that box. Even Republicans have said they would have voted for him if they could not have voted for Trump.
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I hope the poll is reflective of the public view. I've personally lost all hope for single payer now. Never mind Sanders, even if Jesus himself comes down from heaven and proposes it, Republicans will kill it.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I was pretty sure about this Raoul, before my visit to Utah, Nevada and Arizona. Maybe it is anecdotal, but almost everyone I met wanted ACA repealed even if it meant that they would lose healthcare coverage. Some suggested that they want it repealed because they don't trust the government as it would facilitate Government having access to their healthcare records, which in turn would be used to take away their guns. Maybe GOP is right in calculating that the lost 20 million votes maybe gained by having other independents coming to their fold due to reduced premiums. Say if the new law doesn't cover 20 million people, but only covers 8 million people for a much reduced cost, does GOP gain those 8 million votes? Would that law be considered a success? Somehow, I think we are still misjudging the will of the people here.

Maybe I've turned pessimistic
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Of those you talked to, who actually had ACA? The majority of people I see wanting it repealed don't have it. Again, anecdotal. One primary reason, more people with coverage means longer waits for an appointment.
 
senorgregster said:
Of those you talked to, who actually had ACA? The majority of people I see wanting it repealed d't have it. Again, anecdotal. One primary reason, more people with coverage means longer waits for an appointment.
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The majority I talked to, had ACA. Many lacked education though, and were happy to believe the conspiracy theories.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I hope the poll is reflective of the public view. I've personally lost all hope for single payer now. Never mind Sanders, even if Jesus himself comes down from heaven and proposes it, Republicans will kill it.
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Its always about who carries the message.

But people are waking up. I know Trump is a clown but just look. how many people rejected Hillary and the establishment Republicans. I think Trump was the first step in us breaking down the corporate domination.

If Sanders has support from other politicians and significant voices, not just single payer, but college Tuition too will carry.
We should not give up the fight.
 
Red Dreams said:
Its always about who carries the message.

But people are waking up. I know Trump is a clown but just look. how many people rejected Hillary and the establishment Republicans. I think Trump was the first step in us breaking down the corporate domination.

If Sanders has support from other politicians and significant voices, not just single payer, but college Tuition too will carry.
We should not give up the fight.
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You see it as a rejection of Hillary Clinton. I see it as a win for Republican message of no immigrants and keep the jobs within America. The only way we'll know is in 2018/2020. Let's see how this pans out.
 
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