The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

Status
Not open for further replies.
You seem to feel totally detached from the society that is surrounding you. It's a little bit worrying.

Not at all, I live in Michigan not a techie hellscape where douchebags ride to work on skateboards and then contract for Raytheon to create smarter bombs. My neighbors and co workers are normal people just trying to get by. There is great potential for us to change our government, more than any time in recent memory.
 
Eventually it’ll be too expensive for cooks to live there. Then the people will have to cook their own food at the restaurant too.

Dish washing is also obviously going to be a must.


Rich people will pay poor people to eat and digest their food for them to save time.
 
Yeah, well, they definately deserve it and Sanders could be yelled at for all eternity for all I care, but I’m not talking about the Republican establishment but rather the average American voter, and if the Dems are to beat Trump and the Republicans, I just think they need a better way than harrass the cnuts from the right, even if they have it coming.

Otherwise it’ll just end up in a screaming and name calling contest, which is where Trump excells.

Healthcare and the 2. Amendment is where I’d start.



Trump and his idiotic sycophants are not, in any shape or form, OK. But Trump will remain Trump, and if the Dems want to take the fight to his homefield, then so be it. I just think it’d be better if they rose above it and showed America and the world a Democratic Party that stood together and had key isssues like healthcare for all and no guns. Or something like that.


The people who voted for trump and have country club membership or work on wall street or own car dealerships can never be won over by kindness. They like trump's racism and bigotry. That's why the voted for him. They can't get enough. If the Democrats could win these voters with endorsements from lena Dunham and michael Bloomberg and by being tough on crime and outflanking the Republicans on militarism then Hillary would be president right now. Those people should be insulted at every opportunity and made to feel like the soulless pieces of shit they are and always will be.

The people who voted for trump out of ignorance or a desire to stick it to the elites or after being betrayed by the neoliberal dems, they can be won over. These people and the people who are left wing but didnt vote because Democrats offer nothing to help them with the biggest challenges in life can be mobilized. They will support someone who will actually make their lives better. These people shouldnt be harassed. We need to engage them in fighting the entrenched power of capital that controls both parties.
 
The people who voted for trump and have country club membership or work on wall street or own car dealerships can never be won over by kindness. They like trump's racism and bigotry. That's why the voted for him. They can't get enough. If the Democrats could win these voters with endorsements from lena Dunham and michael Bloomberg and by being tough on crime and outflanking the Republicans on militarism then Hillary would be president right now. Those people should be insulted at every opportunity and made to feel like the soulless pieces of shit they are and always will be.

The people who voted for trump out of ignorance or a desire to stick it to the elites or after being betrayed by the neoliberal dems, they can be won over. These people and the people who are left wing but didnt vote because Democrats offer nothing to help them with the biggest challenges in life can be mobilized. They will support someone who will actually make their lives better. These people shouldnt be harassed. We need to engage them in fighting the entrenched power of capital that controls both parties.

Well said.
 
They will support someone who will actually make their lives better

This is why people voted for Obama and for Trump, none of the other stuff you mentioned. Rational people don't vote for bashing elites or because someone is a bigot and racist. Obama didn't deliver, Hilary took the fall for it, so Trump came with the message "I have your back", people bought into it. If people do not feel he is making their lives better he will be gone. The best form of protest is the ballot box, and that is how people should voice themselves. If the left continue with their current tactics they may end up being worse off. There is a reason that populism and nationalism has risen across the globe. The left should not underestimate how their behaviour also forces people away from voting in their favour.
 
Trump and his idiotic sycophants are not, in any shape or form, OK. But Trump will remain Trump, and if the Dems want to take the fight to his homefield, then so be it. I just think it’d be better if they rose above it and showed America and the world a Democratic Party that stood together and had key isssues like healthcare for all and no guns. Or something like that.

Why does one side have to prove they are this alternative, "above it all" option when the other side has been only getting worse and worse while suffering zero consequences? And no one is suggesting the Democrats elect Howard Stern or someone.

There's a line being drawn regarding the administration's "babies in cages" policy. There's been ample opportunity for the GOP to say that this is not acceptable. They, for the most part, haven't done that. The ones in the administration have gone even further and actively designed these policies and then lied about it at every turn

So when people hem and haw and say, why can't we just be friends, I see a complete disconnect to reality. This is not an issue that you can be moderate about. There is no middle ground.
 
The people who voted for trump and have country club membership or work on wall street or own car dealerships can never be won over by kindness. They like trump's racism and bigotry. That's why the voted for him. They can't get enough. If the Democrats could win these voters with endorsements from lena Dunham and michael Bloomberg and by being tough on crime and outflanking the Republicans on militarism then Hillary would be president right now. Those people should be insulted at every opportunity and made to feel like the soulless pieces of shit they are and always will be.

The people who voted for trump out of ignorance or a desire to stick it to the elites or after being betrayed by the neoliberal dems, they can be won over. These people and the people who are left wing but didnt vote because Democrats offer nothing to help them with the biggest challenges in life can be mobilized. They will support someone who will actually make their lives better. These people shouldnt be harassed. We need to engage them in fighting the entrenched power of capital that controls both parties.

It seems you want an even more divided America by just calling people you don’t agree with a cnut. I share your view on a lot of the Trump voters, but I feel like the Dems need to unite America - not bring it further apart. To mobilize all those potential dem voters, they need a clear and resounding message better than “Harrass the feck out of HuckaSanders & co”. And as I said, name calling and harrassment is straight out of Trumps playbook.
 
The people who voted for trump and have country club membership or work on wall street or own car dealerships can never be won over by kindness. They like trump's racism and bigotry. That's why the voted for him. They can't get enough. If the Democrats could win these voters with endorsements from lena Dunham and michael Bloomberg and by being tough on crime and outflanking the Republicans on militarism then Hillary would be president right now. Those people should be insulted at every opportunity and made to feel like the soulless pieces of shit they are and always will be.

The people who voted for trump out of ignorance or a desire to stick it to the elites or after being betrayed by the neoliberal dems, they can be won over. These people and the people who are left wing but didnt vote because Democrats offer nothing to help them with the biggest challenges in life can be mobilized. They will support someone who will actually make their lives better. These people shouldnt be harassed. We need to engage them in fighting the entrenched power of capital that controls both parties.

+1. Reengaging with the labor unions would be key for democrats. Infct they should be pushing retail workers to unionize ahead of the midterms.
 
Why does one side have to prove they are this alternative, "above it all" option when the other side has been only getting worse and worse while suffering zero consequences? And no one is suggesting the Democrats elect Howard Stern or someone.

There's a line being drawn regarding the administration's "babies in cages" policy. There's been ample opportunity for the GOP to say that this is not acceptable. They, for the most part, haven't done that. The ones in the administration have gone even further and actively designed these policies and then lied about it at every turn

So when people hem and haw and say, why can't we just be friends, I see a complete disconnect to reality. This is not an issue that you can be moderate about. There is no middle ground.

Well, even if the American election has zero bearing on my life, I desperately want the Dems to destroy Trump in the midterms and in 2020 and I think they stand a better chance if they don’t stoop to his level. And I still do believe there is an “above it all” solution. Now it’s just up to the Dems to find the right one and a stellar candidate.
 
This is why people voted for Obama and for Trump, none of the other stuff you mentioned. Rational people don't vote for bashing elites or because someone is a bigot and racist. Obama didn't deliver, Hilary took the fall for it, so Trump came with the message "I have your back", people bought into it. If people do not feel he is making their lives better he will be gone. The best form of protest is the ballot box, and that is how people should voice themselves. If the left continue with their current tactics they may end up being worse off. There is a reason that populism and nationalism has risen across the globe. The left should not underestimate how their behaviour also forces people away from voting in their favour.

Common sense - but be careful about raising your head over the parapet with such views.
 
This is why people voted for Obama and for Trump, none of the other stuff you mentioned. Rational people don't vote for bashing elites or because someone is a bigot and racist. Obama didn't deliver, Hilary took the fall for it, so Trump came with the message "I have your back", people bought into it. If people do not feel he is making their lives better he will be gone. The best form of protest is the ballot box, and that is how people should voice themselves. If the left continue with their current tactics they may end up being worse off. There is a reason that populism and nationalism has risen across the globe. The left should not underestimate how their behaviour also forces people away from voting in their favour.

That's why some people voted for him. Other people saw him call Mexicans rapists on his first day and said "more of that please". Other people voted for him for tax breaks and corruption that could benefit themselves.
 
This is why people voted for Obama and for Trump, none of the other stuff you mentioned. Rational people don't vote for bashing elites or because someone is a bigot and racist. Obama didn't deliver, Hilary took the fall for it, so Trump came with the message "I have your back", people bought into it. If people do not feel he is making their lives better he will be gone. The best form of protest is the ballot box, and that is how people should voice themselves. If the left continue with their current tactics they may end up being worse off. There is a reason that populism and nationalism has risen across the globe. The left should not underestimate how their behaviour also forces people away from voting in their favour.


Agreed. Many of the white blue collar voters seemed to have felt like Trump would have made their lives better with whatever pie in the sky promises he was offerening up. Obviously a few may just because. But at the end of the day Trump was actually making them believe he could help them. Dems had no real message for them and still dont.

Farmers in Idaho etc however now may leave trump because of the heart ache these tariffs are causing them. Will the dems have a message for these voters now?
 
It seems you want an even more divided America by just calling people you don’t agree with a cnut. I share your view on a lot of the Trump voters, but I feel like the Dems need to unite America - not bring it further apart. To mobilize all those potential dem voters, they need a clear and resounding message better than “Harrass the feck out of HuckaSanders & co”. And as I said, name calling and harrassment is straight out of Trumps playbook.

The message is that the political elites can no longer destroy lives and increase suffering of ordinary people and get away without consequences. Theyve taken out ability to make changes through the political system with voting restrictions, lovbying, gerrymandering and a massive influx of corporate money so the only avenue left is direct action.
 
Everyone knows white households rebounded more from the recession than black households. White households started with more wealth to begin with, making it more likely that they’d rebound.

Black households didnt rebound at all though. Things actually got worse. But the larger point is still that Obama didnt deliver for a combination of reasons and people were angry and facing economic uncertainty and the only one party even acknowledged that in the last election and that party won. Clinton campaigned on America was already great, which is a frankly insulting message to most people living in communities like mine. I'd go further and say that if the democratic party was run by its supporters in the sense that most political parties are they wouldn't have had such a tone deaf campaign and such an alienating candidate. But the democratic party is run by people from Arlington virginia and Suffolk county and mountain view California who have never worked a blue collar job in their life and never seen their families members laid off or foreclosed on. And that is the fundamental problem with the democratic party and even losing the biggest layup election of all time hasnt changed anything.
 


The stats from that article are shocking. Black women in america are really getting the short end of the stick. The most shocking part was reading that in this day and age families are more likely to save money for their son than daughter.
 
Black households didnt rebound at all though. Things actually got worse.
Again, those who already had more were more likely to rebound.

There’s even a Netflix show explaining this...
I'd go further and say that if the democratic party was run by its supporters in the sense that most political parties are they wouldn't have had such a tone deaf campaign and such an alienating candidate. But the democratic party is run by people from Arlington virginia and Suffolk county and mountain view California who have never worked a blue collar job in their life and never seen their families members laid off or foreclosed on. And that is the fundamental problem with the democratic party and even losing the biggest layup election of all time hasnt changed anything.
Which is why your vote didn’t help at all.
 
Fair question. My sense is because the same international rules based order that started after WW2 continues uninterrupted today. Bretton Woods, the UN, NATO, European Integration, Asian and African decolonization - the general framework of how the entire world conducts its political affairs hasn't changed irrespective of the many significant events during the intervening period. If there's a change in the global order from democracy to authoritarianism then that would be significant, but trajectory seems to be heading in the opposite direction with the fall of the Soviet empire, the gradual shift towards capital economics in China etc.

For the global financial system there isn't a straight line from WWII to now though. There are two distinctly different systems/
The early 1970s changed everything in the global financial markets. 1946-1971 is the Bretton Woods era.
1971- current is a new era from the perspective of economic history.

Bretton Woods was dismantled in 1971. The world went off the gold standard and standardized currency exchange rates.
I think a compelling argument can be made that since the dismantling of Bretton Woods and then the radical deregulation of financial services (through Clinton era Financial Services Modernization Act and Commodity Futures Modernization Act) a lot of very important financial trends (like income equality) are more negative and troubling than positive.

In addition to the negative income inequality trend, we have some major volatile economic events that result from the change in the financial system since the 70s. Latin America saw "the Lost Decade" and a lot of volatility. You have damaging events like Soros-Lewis betting on the pound to crash and profiting <billion from the Pound crashing, banking deregulation like Reagan era Savings and Loan mess, Milton Friedman and the laissez-faire awful recommendations that Russia followed post-Soviet breakup, Clinton-Bush created Great Recession of 2008 (really a financial services derivative crisis) and plenty more local problems from Latin America to Eastern Europe.
 
Again, those who already had more were more likely to rebound.

There’s even a Netflix show explaining this...

Which is why your vote didn’t help at all.

You completely didnt address the point. Salford said Obama didnt deliver and you responded by saying we weren't in recession. But to the majority of people we were. I backed up that statement with some data. I'd like to hear what you think about the data and your contention that Obama did deliver instead of rehashing my refusal to vote for someone I thought would be a bad president for the 73rd time.
 
Last edited:
This

https://crooked.com/article/shame-t...il&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiospm&stream=top

As Harvard has hopefully learned, disarming is an error. Spicer and Lewandowski should have been denied those fellowships. They should also wonder, every time they walk into a new restaurant, whether they will be told to leave. It is good that Spicer has been unable to cash in on his shameful tenure as White House press secretary with a cushy corporate gig, and it is good that Lewandowski lost his speaker’s bureau contract. Not just because turnabout is sometimes satisfying, but because other Republicans are watching, and if they understand that advancing Trumpist values comes with a cost, it might arrest the right’s slide into illiberalism. That’s something even reluctant factions of the political establishment should awaken to and embrace because all of us are along for the ride together.
 
That's why some people voted for him. Other people saw him call Mexicans rapists on his first day and said "more of that please". Other people voted for him for tax breaks and corruption that could benefit themselves.
Very small number though. Though I can't point to the actual report, I did read that over the last two decades the KKK and their like have dwiddled to a level that they are now a rounding error. So hardly influencial. There isn't this big move of racist organizations. Love to know the comparison of KKK to say BLM, antifa and other such organizations.

The USA is still the biggest recipient of immigrants, and one of the biggest refugee sponsors.

In one of your earlier posts you talked about USA could do more because of the available space and to compensate for the action/interference in other countries. Not many would disagree. The issue for many, and that include legal immigrants, is the illegal crossing of the border and then specialised treatment. Probably against your views, but if you had a wall that prevented illegal border crossings, but also had more ports of entry with the facilities to process the immigrants, you would not have some of the issues of today. You would not address everything, but you would address some, and you would not have the cumulative effect you have now.

Corruption is a very weak point, when this is common across all governments in the world, hence my hatred for governments. As for tax breaks, if you tax the shit out of people and waste the money, you can't expect people to not vote for someone who says they will reduce your tax. Provide better services for all with tax money and people will be more appreciative.

You ignored MAGA. It did increase the nationalism in many people, left and right. Who doesn't love their country? Maggie Thatcher exploited it in the 1970s. When people feel low, Governments do one of two things, they start a war or they focus on national pride. There seems to be a complete unawareness of many democratic voters how p*ssed off middle America really was. Going into the mid terms spouting tax rises is probably not going to go down well, if the people feel Trump has given them a lift, even worse if they feel liek they are still struggling.
 
For the global financial system there isn't a straight line from WWII to now though. There are two distinctly different systems/
The early 1970s changed everything in the global financial markets. 1946-1971 is the Bretton Woods era.
1971- current is a new era from the perspective of economic history.

Bretton Woods was dismantled in 1971. The world went off the gold standard and standardized currency exchange rates.
I think a compelling argument can be made that since the dismantling of Bretton Woods and then the radical deregulation of financial services (through Clinton era Financial Services Modernization Act and Commodity Futures Modernization Act) a lot of very important financial trends (like income equality) are more negative and troubling than positive.

In addition to the negative income inequality trend, we have some major volatile economic events that result from the change in the financial system since the 70s. Latin America saw "the Lost Decade" and a lot of volatility. You have damaging events like Soros-Lewis betting on the pound to crash and profiting <billion from the Pound crashing, banking deregulation like Reagan era Savings and Loan mess, Milton Friedman and the laissez-faire awful recommendations that Russia followed post-Soviet breakup, Clinton-Bush created Great Recession of 2008 (really a financial services derivative crisis) and plenty more local problems from Latin America to Eastern Europe.

True. Nixon's policies notwithstanding, the Bretton Woods reference was simply an acknowledgement that we entered into a rules based international monetary order that included the likes of the IMF and World Bank at the end of the war. The current system is simply a modified extension of the original one much like the WTO is a more modern iteration of GATT. They still operate under the same umbrella of being rules based international organizations that adjudicate monetary and trade matters for participating states.
 
You completely didnt address the point. Salford said Obama didnt deliver and you responded by saying we weren't in recession. But to the majority of people we were. I backed up that statement with some data. I'd like to hear what you think about the data and your contention that Obama did deliver instead of rehashing my refusal to vote for someone I thought would be a bad president for the 73rd time.
To the majority of people?
 
Regarding how the recession ended during the Obama administration...
  • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.
  • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.0 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
  • After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/
 
hell yeah corporate profits set records!


The point is that for the majority of people in this country life was worse in 2016 than it was pre recession.

Obama didnt cause the recession, Obama isnt at fault for most of the decreased wealth. But things were objectively worse for most people and Democrats couldn't recognize that because they are inherently handicapped by only having ivy league libs and coastal elites run the party.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.