The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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The dynamics would be very different but yeah, it’d be extremely messy if it got anywhere. I don’t think supporting the MEK has much if any chance of success though, or even making much of an impact at all, they’re despised in Iran.

Yeah, something we should avoid at all costs.
 
I just hope his presidency doesn't start another war, especially not with Iran. Yes they're not great, but they are hardly the biggest problem in the US/Europe. Ironically we seem to be allied with the worst offenders (Saudi, Russia)
Who are 'we' that is allied with Russia?
 
At least a 1/3 of the population of America (that voted for trump), the current American government (who basically run the show), quite a few politicians in Europe (mainly fringe parties and conservative/far right)
You are mistaken. While SA is your ally, Russia is not. Forget the incoherent ramblings of the so called president. There are actually official allies, and Russia is , in fact, the opposite of that.
 
He’s a fecking tit. There is no evidence Iran has broken the deal, it’s internationally recognised (except Israel & Saudi Arabia) & has substantially curbed their nuclear weapon capabilities. Utter madness to revoke it, but I expect nothing less from this imbecile.
 
Pulling out of the Iran deal will be the dumbest this guy has done in office, and that takes some doing.

Sadly it is all lining up for an attack on Iran.
 
The strangest thing is that it won't really yield him that much of a polling win, even among his constituents.
 
The death blow to Obama's legacy. Confirms the Obama / Clinton wing and neoliberalism as a failure.

A very stupid baby with dementia has dismantled his signature domestic and foreign policy achievements within 18 months and republicans control all levels of government.
 
The death blow to Obama's legacy. Confirms the Obama / Clinton wing and neoliberalism as a failure.

A very stupid baby with dementia has dismantled his signature domestic and foreign policy achievements within 18 months and republicans control all levels of government.

Why is it a failure? The deal seemed to be working nicely.
 
Why is it a failure? The deal seemed to be working nicely.

And now trump has torn it down. Obama had a chance to mobilize millions of people to fight for progress and consistently vote to defend it.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine

He chose to undermine a genuine peoples movement and compromise at every turn. It disillusioned people who once supported him and led to the election of trump and Republicans across the country. Now those failures have led to trump dismantling the Iran deal and obamacare.
 
The death blow to Obama's legacy. Confirms the Obama / Clinton wing and neoliberalism as a failure.

A very stupid baby with dementia has dismantled his signature domestic and foreign policy achievements within 18 months and republicans control all levels of government.
Don't see what the deal has to do with neolibralism and America pulling out doesn't destroy it as it will Certainly be the only country pulling out.
 
The death blow to Obama's legacy. Confirms the Obama / Clinton wing and neoliberalism as a failure.

A very stupid baby with dementia has dismantled his signature domestic and foreign policy achievements within 18 months and republicans control all levels of government.
What the feck are you talking about ? Was Obama supposed to incorporate the Iran deal in the constitution , in order to be tamper proof from the next oval office occupant ?
 
And now trump has torn it down. Obama had a chance to mobilize millions of people to fight for progress and consistently vote to defend it.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine

He chose to undermine a genuine peoples movement and compromise at every turn. It disillusioned people who once supported him and led to the election of trump and Republicans across the country. Now those failures have led to trump dismantling the Iran deal and obamacare.

With a Republican congress/senate etc determined to undermine him at every point he did face a lot of difficulties and obstacles far greater than past Dem presidents. Probably could've been stronger on his convictions at times but I don't think it's as simple as him being a failure due to compromise. He largely had to compromise at points.
 
He chose to undermine a genuine peoples movement and compromise at every turn. It disillusioned people who once supported him and led to the election of trump and Republicans across the country. Now those failures have led to trump dismantling the Iran deal and obamacare.

World would be in a much better place right now if people appreciated the value of compromise.
 
And now trump has torn it down. Obama had a chance to mobilize millions of people to fight for progress and consistently vote to defend it.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine

He chose to undermine a genuine peoples movement and compromise at every turn. It disillusioned people who once supported him and led to the election of trump and Republicans across the country. Now those failures have led to trump dismantling the Iran deal and obamacare.

Everybody else is at fault except the Harambe voting snowflakes, isn't it?
 
With a Republican congress/senate etc determined to undermine him at every point he did face a lot of difficulties and obstacles far greater than past Dem presidents. Probably could've been stronger on his convictions at times but I don't think it's as simple as him being a failure due to compromise. He largely had to compromise at points.
It's even a moot point. Any successive president could have torpedoed the deal regardless of how left/right or progressive Obama was. Looks to me like a poor excuse to whinge.
 
Don't see what the deal has to do with neolibralism and America pulling out doesn't destroy it as it will Certainly be the only country pulling out.

This is a precursor to America attacking Iran.

What the feck are you talking about ? Was Obama supposed to incorporate the Iran deal in the constitution , in order to be tamper proof from the next oval office occupant ?

He was supposed to build a movement that could withstand the tea party. He was supposed to build programs that people would vote to support. He was supposed to back a candidate who wouldn't lose to Donald fecking trump. By the speed you responded I'm sure you didn't read the article explaining what he did wrong.

With a Republican congress/senate etc determined to undermine him at every point he did face a lot of difficulties and obstacles far greater than past Dem presidents. Probably could've been stronger on his convictions at times but I don't think it's as simple as him being a failure due to compromise. He largely had to compromise at points.

World would be in a much better place right now if people appreciated the value of compromise.

He didn't fight for anything. Didn't fight for a public option, didn't fight for Gorsuch, didn't fight for gun control. He just threw up his hands and said "ah well what can you do".

Everybody else is at fault except the Harambe voting snowflakes, isn't it?

Snowflakes :lol:
 
It's even a moot point. Any successive president could have torpedoed the deal regardless of how left/right or progressive Obama was. Looks to me like a poor excuse to whinge.

What is Obama's legacy in your eyes? Has the country gotten better or worse since he was elected in 2008 with sweeping majorities in both houses? What is left of what you hoped he would accomplish now?
 
And now trump has torn it down. Obama had a chance to mobilize millions of people to fight for progress and consistently vote to defend it.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine

He chose to undermine a genuine peoples movement and compromise at every turn. It disillusioned people who once supported him and led to the election of trump and Republicans across the country. Now those failures have led to trump dismantling the Iran deal and obamacare.

What does this have to do with neoliberalism and the Iran deal ? Trump is simply following his own preferred policies that would be expected when the White House switches political parties. If Sanders just left office last year you could successfully bet the farm that Trump would be undoing all his work. Its just the way politics happens.
 
What does this have to do with neoliberalism and the Iran deal ? Trump is simply following his own preferred policies that would be expected when the White House switches political parties. If Sanders just left office last year you could successfully bet the farm that Trump would be undoing all his work. Its just the way politics happens.

It didn't have to be trump. This was the most winnable election ever and the Obama / Clinton of the democratic party squandered it by not embracing the people on the ground, by alienating supporters with neoliberal policies and by nominating a candidate with record unfavorable and campaigning on a personality contest. Its cliche to say it but Bernie would have won. Even Biden would have won. But the democratic party apparatus is disconnected with regular people in this country that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.
 
What does this have to do with neoliberalism and the Iran deal ? Trump is simply following his own preferred policies that would be expected when the White House switches political parties. If Sanders just left office last year you could successfully bet the farm that Trump would be undoing all his work. Its just the way politics happens.
Exactly and I expected this to be fairly obvious. What he is claiming though is Obama is at fault for not being Jesus.
 
It didn't have to be trump. This was the most winnable election ever and the Obama / Clinton of the democratic party squandered it by not embracing the people on the ground, by alienating supporters with neoliberal policies and by nominating a candidate with record unfavorable and campaigning on a personality contest. Its cliche to say it but Bernie would have won. Even Biden would have won. But the democratic party apparatus is disconnected with regular people in this country that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

I don't think it had anything to do with policy as it did likability. Hillary was getting shafted by Trump and from the Bernie crowd. Had the latter done a better job of getting behind her then Trump wouldn't be in office. Instead she was portrayed as unlikable, aggressive, secretive and any other term that could discredit her - from both sides.
 
I stood in line for 6 hours to see candidate Obama speak on labor day in 08. I voted for him. I worked hundreds of hours as a volunteer on his campaign in 2012. I'm confident I did far more to support him and the democratic party than any of the people criticizing me here. But his legacy is a failure.

Read the article. Politics is more than just brand loyalty.
 
I don't think it had anything to do with policy as it did likability. Hillary was getting shafted by Trump and from the Bernie crowd. Had the latter done a better job of getting behind her then Trump wouldn't be in office. Instead she was portrayed as unlikable, aggressive, secretive and any other term that could discredit her - from both sides.

All of these things were known before she was nominated. They screwed up massively.
 
What is Obama's legacy in your eyes? Has the country gotten better or worse since he was elected in 2008 with sweeping majorities in both houses? What is left of what you hoped he would accomplish now?
We can debate about legacies as long as you want as for this deal, any president could have withdrawn so I don't see how your argument relates to this.
You then go on to say it's a precursor to invading Iran. Again, that was the prerogative of any administration that followed him. I fail to see how Obama's neoliberalism has could have changed this outcome. Even if America did not pull out of this deal now, any president in the future could have decided to do what Trump has done.
 
All of these things were known before she was nominated. They screwed up massively.

She was the most viable candidate coming in. The Bernie show was unexpected. The Dems should've not had superdelegates, but that's another debate.
 
We can debate about legacies as long as you want as for this deal, any president could have withdrawn so I don't see how your argument relates to this.
You then go on to say it's a precursor to invading Iran. Again, that was the prerogative of any administration that followed him. I fail to see how Obama's neoliberalism has could have changed this outcome. Even if America did not pull out of this deal now, any president in the future could have decided to do what Trump has done.

Obama's neoliberalism has led fo Republicans controlling every branch of government and having a reality TV star in the white house. Trump campaigned on undoing Obama's legacy and he won. Every election since 2008 is an indictment of neoliberalism. Even 2012 was down to his personal charisma and likability.
 
The death blow to Obama's legacy. Confirms the Obama / Clinton wing and neoliberalism as a failure.

A very stupid baby with dementia has dismantled his signature domestic and foreign policy achievements within 18 months and republicans control all levels of government.

Not really. Your legacy is defined by how and what people remember of you and the good things you tried to achieve. He can try all he wants but what he's undoing can be redone. It's gonna be very hard after him however for any country to trust the US in ANY deal after this.
 
She was the most viable candidate coming in. The Bernie show was unexpected. The Dems should've not had superdelegates, but that's another debate.

She was only viable in the sense that she had the right credentials. She wasn't popular among voters and it led to her losing the election because that's how we decide who becomes president: voters, not think tank endorsements.
 
Not really. Your legacy is defined by how and what people remember of you and the good things you tried to achieve. He can try all he wants but what he's undoing can be redone. It's gonna be very hard after him however for any country to trust the US in ANY deal after this.

People will remember the optimism of 2008 and how he failed to translate that into anything substantive.
 
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