The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Henrik Larsson said:
In fairness, to someone genuinely not up to date with the Trump presidency this thread might give the impression there's some over the top negative hysterics going on.

In reality it's simply been that bad of course. Even though a massive amount of normalization must have kicked in by now, most people are still somewhat shocked on a weekly basis by the absurdity of some of the things that are happening.

@Peyroteo You could probably find a silver lining in just about everything, but I'm really not sure what kind of angle someone is working if he or she is claiming that things are going pretty well. We're one year in and even the biggest optimists have had to admit Trump hasn't been able to make the switch from successful demagogue to a somewhat serious leader of a nation, nor has he really been capable of governing in a proper and functional way. Hundreds of important positions haven't been filled.

imrs.php


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...7cce830fb0469e8840085/?utm_term=.08e24c683a5c


Clearly this presidency is a farce, from the nepotism and lies to the staggering incompetence and lack of actual knowledge. On forehand I made the comparison to Berlusconi, so far he's looking even worse. And of course the possible negative effects of this freak show on the world can be much bigger considering the fact that the USA is the most infuential country in the world.

This was a very recent interview with Trump, if you have ten minutes of time you should read it and decide for yourself. Between the lines it gives great insight into how things work in Trump's mind.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/transc...rview-with-the-wall-street-journal-1515715481

To summarize: he's accusing FBI of treason, claims he's the smartest person ever lived and plenty of more bizarre things in a three hour rambling.


If you want to take a different look on things though, I think it was @Eboue who recently pointed out that a lot of the things that are deemed unprecedented in this Trump Presidency are in fact not really that new. We've seen the massive amounts of lies before, the blatant racism. There's been plenty of weird behaviour by past presidents, I remember Obama who jokingly mentioned that Teddy Roosevelt used to disappear to Yellowstone Park for months. Plenty of precedents for warmongering, George W. Bush apparently doesn't agree with Trump at all, which is slightly ironic because he basically paved the way for Trump's ideas with plenty of his decisions and policies.

And that's obviously also the scary part. I don't even want to know for what of future politician Trump is paving the way. And he's definitely doing a pretty decent job at delegitimizing and unhinging pretty much every aspect of a demcratic state. All the research suggests that there's not really a reason to assume that a nation turned into democracy will therefore forever remain a democracy.
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Thanks!

Yeah I read a few pages back in this thread but to me it just seems way too negative and people are criticizing things that don't really matter. From my uninformed perspective things look like here in Portugal Trump only makes the news when he says some stupid shit and people call him a racist, sexist or whatever even when most of the time he's just saying something unprofessional and I don't believe for a second he's a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. It's taboo to not hate Trump even though most people don't even know what his policies are or what's happening. I just see a lot of propaganda telling me I should hate this guy and no good reason to do so.

Then I see some numbers that show the economy is booming, unemployment is reaching all time lows this century (for blacks, hispanics and women too) so all of this drama and hyperbole surrounding him just doesn't feel that warranted which is why I wanted some clarification since I haven't really been paying attention.
 
Trump's stance on the Central Park Five is clearly racist in nature. The man is your stereotypical 30s-50s born, white male granted he was born into wealth and fed from a racist father's silver spoon throughout life. Those types may not be overtly racist like say a Neo-Nazi/KKK member, but their upbringing and core beliefs are often developed in a way that see themselves as above other races (as well as above poor people, opposite sex, etc.). My grandmother is this way - not openly racist, doesn't hate blacks or browns (hates Democrats and Muslims though), yet sometimes says things that some would interpret as racist in nature while others would dismiss as "that's her era". Just who she is and is probably a racist in many ways just not openly.
 
MrMarcello said:
Trump's stance on the Central Park Five is clearly racist in nature. The man is your stereotypical 30s-50s born, white male granted he was born into wealth and fed from a racist father's silver spoon throughout life. Those types may not be overtly racist like say a Neo-Nazi/KKK member, but their upbringing and core beliefs are often developed in a way that see themselves as above other races (as well as above poor people, opposite sex, etc.). My grandmother is this way - not openly racist, doesn't hate blacks or browns (hates Democrats and Muslims though), yet sometimes says things that some would interpret as racist in nature while others would dismiss as "that's her era". Just who she is and is probably a racist in many ways just not openly.
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His dad was arrested at a KKK rally. And they denied minorities accommodation in their buildings. It's as overt as the KKK.
 
Peyroteo said:
Thanks!

Yeah I read a few pages back in this thread but to me it just seems way too negative and people are criticizing things that don't really matter. From my uninformed perspective things look like here in Portugal Trump only makes the news when he says some stupid shit and people call him a racist, sexist or whatever even when most of the time he's just saying something unprofessional and I don't believe for a second he's a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. It's taboo to not hate Trump even though most people don't even know what his policies are or what's happening. I just see a lot of propaganda telling me I should hate this guy and no good reason to do so.

Then I see some numbers that show the economy is booming, unemployment is reaching all time lows this century (for blacks, hispanics and women too) so all of this drama and hyperbole surrounding him just doesn't feel that warranted which is why I wanted some clarification since I haven't really been paying attention.
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The economy was turned around while Obama was in office. Another thread for discussing if a president actually has full influence on that especially when it is seen in many other countries at the same time. Trump's economy and job records is actually worse than Obama's so far but honestly it's hard to improve to a great extent. Now for people in the bottom 50% they're screwed and have been screwed for decades.

If you think trump is not racist or sexist you are missing a LOT of actions not words!


E.g. on "his" great economy after he turned around the disaster handed to him. Note, Obama inherited an actual disaster where unemployment hit around 10%. When he left office it was something like 4.5%. it's now hovering in the low 4s.

UnemployMay2016.png



Jobs added by month. Includes Trump's first year and of course the Bush to Obama transition. Note how Trump's numbers are no different to Obama's.

latest_numbers_CES0000000001_2007_2017_all_period_M12_net_1mth.gif


And the market. Can't find a better date range but again Obama inherited a crashing market. Trump inherited a slowed market after a boom. I believe the range under Obama was 8,000 to 20,000.
The-Dow-1999-To-The-Present-1024x680.png



E.g. on racism
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

E.g. on sexism
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/po...tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/
 
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Peyroteo said:
Thanks!

Yeah I read a few pages back in this thread but to me it just seems way too negative and people are criticizing things that don't really matter. From my uninformed perspective things look like here in Portugal Trump only makes the news when he says some stupid shit and people call him a racist, sexist or whatever even when most of the time he's just saying something unprofessional and I don't believe for a second he's a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. It's taboo to not hate Trump even though most people don't even know what his policies are or what's happening. I just see a lot of propaganda telling me I should hate this guy and no good reason to do so.

Then I see some numbers that show the economy is booming, unemployment is reaching all time lows this century (for blacks, hispanics and women too) so all of this drama and hyperbole surrounding him just doesn't feel that warranted which is why I wanted some clarification since I haven't really been paying attention.
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You admit to having an uninformed opinion and yet you seem very certain of your beliefs regarding him. I would say it matters little if he's personally a racist, sexist or homophobe, the problem is that there are still a lot of those in America, they support him and he panders to them. I could see Trump himself running as a democrat and pandering to a completely different crowd, if they had given him a chance. And that's the problem about him, he's not a politician, he doesn't have any ideas of his own other than being a narcissist in need of attention or approval. He's tremendously ignorant and completely incoherent at times. And there are no limits to what he'll do to be loved by his current supporters. His policies aren't really "his", they're the policies of people who are manipulating him to further their goals, and most of these mean a regression in issues like civil rights, equality, environment, wealth distribution, education or healthcare.

As for the economy improving, well, I'm of the opinion that individual governments really can't do that much to change it in the short term. They can wreck it if they are extremists (think Venezuela) and they can set things in motion that will benefit it in the long run (better education, investment in key areas of industry/technology, etc), but I don't buy for a second that an improve in 1.5 % GDP in a year is the responsibility of a government that just got there.

I, for example, support our government in Portugal for a lot of different reasons, but I wouldn't attribute them the laurels for our improving economy. We're simply not big enough alone to influence it, we're doing better because Europe and the world are also doing better. When global or European recession/stagnation kicks in again we'll go down again regardless of who's in government.
 
Peyroteo said:
Thanks!

Yeah I read a few pages back in this thread but to me it just seems way too negative and people are criticizing things that don't really matter. From my uninformed perspective things look like here in Portugal Trump only makes the news when he says some stupid shit and people call him a racist, sexist or whatever even when most of the time he's just saying something unprofessional and I don't believe for a second he's a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. It's taboo to not hate Trump even though most people don't even know what his policies are or what's happening. I just see a lot of propaganda telling me I should hate this guy and no good reason to do so.

Then I see some numbers that show the economy is booming, unemployment is reaching all time lows this century (for blacks, hispanics and women too) so all of this drama and hyperbole surrounding him just doesn't feel that warranted which is why I wanted some clarification since I haven't really been paying attention.
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Yep, the economy is booming and it's been used a lot to argue that Trump's not so bad. I'm really not sure what it means though, just about every statistic I can find on the US economy suggests things have been going great ever since the 2008 financial crisis.

https://www.ft.com/content/b15791a2-c429-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675

"Rest of the world has outperformed US stock market"

"On the core issues of the economy, however, the effects of Mr Trump are less apparent. The unemployment rate continued a steady fall that started during President Barack Obama’s first term. Meanwhile, inflation initially rose, suggesting that growth was about to resurge, before declining again during the summer. Inflation is picking up again now, but the mystery of how unemployment can stay so low without provoking higher inflation remains. The clear trend of the Obama years remains intact and uninterrupted."

With regards to him not being a racist or sexist, I think we've had that debate somewhere in this thread. I could understand if you'd say Trump is a soulless guy who just uses those themes for personal gain. But then again regardless of the motives, how do you call someone who consistently shows racist behaviour?

It sounds very dramatic, but it's actually not hysterical or hyperbolic to call the man a fascist at all. That's the whole bizarre thing about the situation. By most reasonable standards he simply is a fascist, there are hundreds of examples why. Hardly ever has this type of politician brought something good to the world.


Edit: sorry for being the third post raising the same arguments mate, I'm really tired right now
 
Tbh, even if were utterly true that the economy has improved under Trump, would it really be surprising or even to his credit? After all, his priority is always business, and he has a vested interest in cutting regulations etc etc...
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Yep, the economy is booming and it's been used a lot to argue that Trump's not so bad. I'm really not sure what it means though, just about every statistic I can find on the US economy suggests things have been going great ever since the 2008 financial crisis.

https://www.ft.com/content/b15791a2-c429-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675

"Rest of the world has outperformed US stock market"

"On the core issues of the economy, however, the effects of Mr Trump are less apparent. The unemployment rate continued a steady fall that started during President Barack Obama’s first term. Meanwhile, inflation initially rose, suggesting that growth was about to resurge, before declining again during the summer. Inflation is picking up again now, but the mystery of how unemployment can stay so low without provoking higher inflation remains. The clear trend of the Obama years remains intact and uninterrupted."

With regards to him not being a racist or sexist, I think we've had that debate somewhere in this thread. I could understand if you'd say Trump is a soulless guy who just uses those themes for personal gain. But then again regardless of the motives, how do you call someone who consistently shows racist behaviour?

It sounds very dramatic, but it's actually not hysterical or hyperbolic to call the man a fascist at all. That's the whole bizarre thing about the situation. By most reasonable standards he simply is a fascist, there are hundreds of examples why. Hardly ever has this type of politician brought something good to the world.


Edit: sorry for being the third post raising the same arguments mate, I'm really tired right now
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The business cycle has been on an upward trajectory since Obama's first term and has continued upward when Trump became President, mainly because it priced in the expectation of his economic policies passing through Congress, which they now have.
 
Arruda said:
You admit to having an uninformed opinion and yet you seem very certain of your beliefs regarding him. I would say it matters little if he's personally a racist, sexist or homophobe, the problem is that there are still a lot of those in America, they support him and he panders to them. I could see Trump himself running as a democrat and pandering to a completely different crowd, if they had given him a chance. And that's the problem about him, he's not a politician, he doesn't have any ideas of his own other than being a narcissist in need of attention or approval. He's tremendously ignorant and completely incoherent at times. And there are no limits to what he'll do to be loved by his current supporters. His policies aren't really "his", they're the policies of people who are manipulating him to further their goals, and most of these mean a regression in issues like civil rights, equality, environment, wealth distribution, education or healthcare.
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I have an uninformed opinion about most things he's done, but controversial statements he makes are always on the news so I'm informed on those. Obviously I can't be certain if he's a racist or not but I don't believe he is and I don't think most people do either. Since he's been president I've seen him make incoherent, unprofessional, narcissist and stupid statements but racist or sexist ones I haven't and I don't believe in the slightest either him or a significant part of americans think different ethnicity or gender should have different rights. I think the media here is labeling the majority of Trump supporters as either racist, sexist, homophobic or uneducated people and I don't think that's really fair. That's not why I posted though, I don't think this matters really. Only wanted to understand a bit better how things were going.

Agree with you when it comes to Portugal and I don't know enough to know how much (if any) credit Trump can take for the economy so I won't comment on that.
 
Peyroteo said:
I have an uninformed opinion about most things he's done, but controversial statements he makes are always on the news so I'm informed on those. Obviously I can't be certain if he's a racist or not but I don't believe he is and I don't think most people do either. Since he's been president I've seen him make incoherent, unprofessional, narcissist and stupid statements but racist or sexist ones I haven't and I don't believe in the slightest either him or a significant part of americans think different ethnicity or gender should have different rights. I think the media here is labeling the majority of Trump supporters as either racist, sexist, homophobic or uneducated people and I don't think that's really fair. That's not why I posted though, I don't think this matters really. Only wanted to understand a bit better how things were going.

Agree with you when it comes to Portugal and I don't know enough to know how much (if any) credit Trump can take for the economy so I won't comment on that.
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Take a look at the two links I provided. He has a track record beyond actual words.

Unfortunately there are plenty of racists in this country. I live in one of the most diverse areas in the country which is highly rewarding. However, not too many miles from me (less than 10) is an area that is nearly 100% white. Add another 20 or so miles and you are in kkk rally areas. Having said this, I don't believe the majority of his voters are racists. That is just lazy thinking. The percentage that are? Who knows.
 
I'd say the birther theory was explicitly racist. Believing the President of the US wasn't actually born in America simply because of his skin colour.
 
Cheesy said:
I'd say the birther theory was explicitly racist. Believing the President of the US wasn't actually born in America simply because of his skin colour.
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He used to brand the applications of non-white folk with the letter C (meaning coloured) and deny them access to his buildings. With everything he's said and done it's incredible people still question just how racist he is.
 
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Cheesy said:
I'd say the birther theory was explicitly racist. Believing the President of the US wasn't actually born in America simply because of his skin colour.
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Course it was. At best you can say he was latching on to and popularising a racist theory to delegitimise Obama, which in itself is PRETTY DARN RACIST. It's amazing this conversation still has to happen. Any look at his past comments and actions leads to the same conclusion.
 
MrMarcello said:
Trump's stance on the Central Park Five is clearly racist in nature. The man is your stereotypical 30s-50s born, white male granted he was born into wealth and fed from a racist father's silver spoon throughout life. Those types may not be overtly racist like say a Neo-Nazi/KKK member, but their upbringing and core beliefs are often developed in a way that see themselves as above other races (as well as above poor people, opposite sex, etc.). My grandmother is this way - not openly racist, doesn't hate blacks or browns (hates Democrats and Muslims though), yet sometimes says things that some would interpret as racist in nature while others would dismiss as "that's her era". Just who she is and is probably a racist in many ways just not openly.
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Someone once told me -- the difference between the South (of Mason-Dixon Line) and the North, is that in the South they will call you the N word in your face if thats how they feel. In the North, they may feel that way but won't do so.
Which would you prefer was the question.
 
Peyroteo said:
Thanks!

Yeah I read a few pages back in this thread but to me it just seems way too negative and people are criticizing things that don't really matter. From my uninformed perspective things look like here in Portugal Trump only makes the news when he says some stupid shit and people call him a racist, sexist or whatever even when most of the time he's just saying something unprofessional and I don't believe for a second he's a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. It's taboo to not hate Trump even though most people don't even know what his policies are or what's happening. I just see a lot of propaganda telling me I should hate this guy and no good reason to do so.

Then I see some numbers that show the economy is booming, unemployment is reaching all time lows this century (for blacks, hispanics and women too) so all of this drama and hyperbole surrounding him just doesn't feel that warranted which is why I wanted some clarification since I haven't really been paying attention.
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Is there hyperbole? Yes, but that's just how today's political climate is. And i realize that accusations of sexism, racism ets is being flung around a bit willy nilly today, but in Trumps case it's a fitting description. His comments and attitudes about Mexicans and Muslims are racist, no doubt. Same as his comments about women are undoubtedly sexist.

Him being incompetent and stupid and at the same time unbelievably arrogant is another reasons to hate him. Or his astounding hypocrisy, or his pettiness or his blatant corruption and dishonesty. Hes a complete charlatan and a terrible human being on top of that
 
Peyroteo said:
I have an uninformed opinion about most things he's done, but controversial statements he makes are always on the news so I'm informed on those. Obviously I can't be certain if he's a racist or not but I don't believe he is and I don't think most people do either. Since he's been president I've seen him make incoherent, unprofessional, narcissist and stupid statements but racist or sexist ones I haven't and I don't believe in the slightest either him or a significant part of americans think different ethnicity or gender should have different rights. I think the media here is labeling the majority of Trump supporters as either racist, sexist, homophobic or uneducated people and I don't think that's really fair. That's not why I posted though, I don't think this matters really. Only wanted to understand a bit better how things were going.

Agree with you when it comes to Portugal and I don't know enough to know how much (if any) credit Trump can take for the economy so I won't comment on that.
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This is a really interesting post. I do understand some of your scepticism because of the undertone of certain parts of the debate on Trump's Presidency. But you don't have to listen to that or believe it.

It's so very easy to see for yourself, to check, verify, research, or whatever you want to call it, and see the racist and sexist statements he has made, both during his lifetime and during his campaign. So I'm not sure how you can imply you doubt he made such statements?

Just like it's very easy to check if a significant part of Americans have racist or sexist believes. It's so very obvious that I'm not even sure where to start and what to include. That country is polarized to the bone, from a very recent history of actual racial segregation and extreme opression, to the future, with African American women still being 3-6 times more likely to die in childbirth than white American women today, and their children facing more barriers than any other racial group.

An that's really only about black people. You could find comparable problems regarding all minorities in the USA. And then if you look at the areas where Trump won the election, it's almost a country side vs. big city thing on top of that. The polarization is very real and Trump is basically a product of these underlying tensions and problems.

"The warning specifically refers to events in Charlottesville, Virginia, where the civil rights activist Heather Heyer was killed when a car crashed into a group of people protesting against a white nationalist rally. Such statements are usually issued by the UN committee on the elimination of racial discrimination (Cerd) over fears of ethnic or religious conflict. In the past decade, the committee has only issued six warnings. Those admonishments went to Burundi, Iraq, Ivory Coast, Kyrgyzstan and Nigeria."

Seriously, the list of bizarre shit that's happened during this first year is pretty long.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ut-trump-era-bigotry-not-blip-charlottesville

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1595019/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1781382/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-shooting-study-racist-culture-a7863501.html


Out of curiousity, I've said Trump is a de facto (neo)fascist. How would you describe or catogorize him as a politician?
 
Cheesy said:
I'd say the birther theory was explicitly racist. Believing the President of the US wasn't actually born in America simply because of his skin colour.
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You'd say? There's no doubt about how racist that whole birther movement was. They even questioned whether Hawaii was a freaking state and if his mother was actually from Kansas.
 
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SteveJ said:
Tbh, even if were utterly true that the economy has improved under Trump, would it really be surprising or even to his credit? After all, his priority is always business, and he has a vested interest in cutting regulations etc etc...
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It's just the optics and perception they're concerned about. They KNOW for a fact that their base would agree that Trump is responsible for the current economy. If you're trying to reason with them and show them that the current economy is all Obama they'd simply call you a leftist and a far left nut job.
 
SteveJ said:
Tbh, even if were utterly true that the economy has improved under Trump, would it really be surprising or even to his credit? After all, his priority is always business, and he has a vested interest in cutting regulations etc etc...
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The good numbers is based on expectations, a few years from now is ussually where the pain started to be felt.

Even if the tax cut indeed brings jobs (which i doubted. No amount of tax cut can compete with cheap labour somewhere else) it'll have its own effect on defisit and macro economy
 
Is this a president? He is using his Twitter against a political party. He is clearly not interested in uniting the nation.



 
I met an american friend today, a very religious and conservative one. I tried to stay away from politics but when the topic inevitably came up because some Trump report was on the news he was very quick to end it: "as long as liberals are angry with him, he has my support, I don't care what he's doing". I know it's impossible to poll this sort of attitude, but I wonder what percentage of his supporters have this kind of mindset.
 
maniak said:
I met an american friend today, a very religious and conservative one. I tried to stay away from politics but when the topic inevitably came up because some Trump report was on the news he was very quick to end it: "as long as liberals are angry with him, he has my support, I don't care what he's doing". I know it's impossible to poll this sort of attitude, but I wonder what percentage of his supporters have this kind of mindset.
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Most if not all. He could be doing unspeakable things to one if their family members and as long as the "liberals" were pissed off they would love it.
 
maniak said:
I met an american friend today, a very religious and conservative one. I tried to stay away from politics but when the topic inevitably came up because some Trump report was on the news he was very quick to end it: "as long as liberals are angry with him, he has my support, I don't care what he's doing". I know it's impossible to poll this sort of attitude, but I wonder what percentage of his supporters have this kind of mindset.
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Troll culture.
 
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