The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Cheesy said:
And anyway, this idea that you're some brave warrior fighting against the common current isn't really all that true. Plenty of left-wing/liberal posters have been critical of Clinton, notably during the Primaries when they pointed out she was a poor candidate. There's a dedicated thread right now with over 1,000 posts discussing why she was the wrong choice of candidate, including from people who actively supported her. There is plenty of discussion going on as to what's wrong with the Democrats etc...but for some reason you seem uncomfortable with the constant criticism of a shit President in a thread dedicated to that President's shit Presidency. Which is strange to say the least.
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What?! Who ever claimed that? Because I certainly didn't!

Re: bolded point no.2, there's millions of Americans who disagree with you and are quite satisfied with Trump's Presidency, with the investment deals promised, unemployment decreasing, and not to mention Trump making good on quite a few of his campaign promises (promises which backboned his attraction to over 60 million Americans). But hey, who cares about them, right?
 
Buchan said:
What?! Who ever claimed that? Because I certainly didn't!

Re: bolded point no.2, there's millions of Americans who disagree with you and are quite satisfied with Trump's Presidency, with the investment deals promised, unemployment decreasing, and not to mention Trump making good on quite a few of his campaign promises (promises which backboned his attraction to over 60 million Americans). But hey, who cares about them, right?
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See, this is why we think you're on Trumps dick. Soon as someone points out the orangutang is a shit president you're in here jacking him off. And using transparently irrelevant arguments to do so.
 
Silva said:


It's not the same principle.

Did you pay even a minute of attention to the 2016 presidential election? Because the only way your posts here make sense is if you came out of a coma last month.
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I followed the campaigns, yes. I've already said Trump's words were inflammatory (and I personally don't condone them). His campaign was heavily structured around 'The Wall' (again, an archaic ideology which has no place in 21st century civilisation) and deporting illegal immigrants. Trump is bold and brash to the nth degree, every single time he promises something or plans something, he overeggs the pudding. I don't agree nor condone any of it.

However, Obama publicly denounced illegal immigration (admittedly he's changed tack since) but I don't recall any condemnation of that, nor the flip-flopping when it's politically-advantageous to do so (similar to the same-sex marriage issue).
 
Buchan said:
What?! Who ever claimed that? Because I certainly didn't!

Re: bolded point no.2, there's millions of Americans who disagree with you and are quite satisfied with Trump's Presidency, with the investment deals promised, unemployment decreasing, and not to mention Trump making good on quite a few of his campaign promises (promises which backboned his attraction to over 60 million Americans). But hey, who cares about them, right?
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You're claiming it every time you talk about how we're all blind liberals and you're the only one willing to critique the other side, when you've been told time and time again this isn't the case.

Millions of Americans disagree (as it to be expected) but as far as Presidency's go Trump's popularity ratings are shocking, and his actual election was as the second most popular candidate in the race in which he lost the popular vote to another shit Presidential candidate.

I'd struggle to attribute most of the supposed positive aspects you've mentioned to Trump...the economy was on the right tracks anyway and he's done comparatively little except play golf and make weird statements on Twitter since getting the top job.

I'm surprise to see someone defending his campaign promises when he's failed to fulfill a good bunch. The Wall is no closer to being built. He hasn't completely banned Muslims from the country yet, something he said he was going to do during the campaign. He's resoundingly failed to get rid of Obamacare. He's reneged on previous promises to lock up Hilary Clinton or at least investigate the possibility of doing so. He's played more golf than Obama in spite of previously criticising Obama for doing so. He promised to 'drain the swamp' and yet has appointment to his Cabinet a mixture of big business executives and establishment Republicans. He was giving murmurings on reneging on NATO commitments and yet has largely backtracked on doing so. I can continue if you want...
 
Buchan said:
What?! Who ever claimed that? Because I certainly didn't!

Re: bolded point no.2, there's millions of Americans who disagree with you and are quite satisfied with Trump's Presidency, with the investment deals promised, unemployment decreasing, and not to mention Trump making good on quite a few of his campaign promises (promises which backboned his attraction to over 60 million Americans). But hey, who cares about them, right?
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He hasn't done any of what you listed.
 
Buchan said:
I followed the campaigns, yes. I've already said Trump's words were inflammatory (and I personally don't condone them). His campaign was heavily structured around 'The Wall' (again, an archaic ideology which has no place in 21st century civilisation) and deporting illegal immigrants. Trump is bold and brash to the nth degree, every single time he promises something or plans something, he overeggs the pudding. I don't agree nor condone any of it.

However, Obama publicly denounced illegal immigration (admittedly he's changed tack since) but I don't recall any condemnation of that, nor the flip-flopping when it's politically-advantageous to do so (similar to the same-sex marriage issue).
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Plenty of people don't agree with illegal immigration but condemn Trump's use of language. Saying "you don't condone it" is a poor line of defence when you repeatedly defend him. Additionally, plenty of left-wingers condemned Obama for plenty and just felt he was better than any deranged Republican alternatives.
 
Buchan said:
I followed the campaigns, yes. I've already said Trump's words were inflammatory (and I personally don't condone them). His campaign was heavily structured around 'The Wall' (again, an archaic ideology which has no place in 21st century civilisation) and deporting illegal immigrants. Trump is bold and brash to the nth degree, every single time he promises something or plans something, he overeggs the pudding. I don't agree nor condone any of it.

However, Obama publicly denounced illegal immigration (admittedly he's changed tack since) but I don't recall any condemnation of that, nor the flip-flopping when it's politically-advantageous to do so (similar to the same-sex marriage issue).
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There's a clear difference between someone being against illegal immigration and calling immigrants rapists. That you're still conflating the two makes your lip services in the first paragraph seem incredibly insincere.
 
Silva said:
See, this is why we think you're on Trumps dick. Soon as someone points out the orangutang is a shit president you're in here jacking him off. And using transparently irrelevant arguments to do so.
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But I'm not. I genuinely think I'm pointing out something that doesn't actually need to be pointed out: there's a very sizeable percentage of the American electorate who are not only satisfied with Trump's Presidency so far, they are elated with it. Trump ran on memorable campaign policies (whether they were morally right is another argument) which every voter in America and those following around the world can remember (something his opponent failed miserably to replicate). His supporters, I'm sure, will be quite happy with the progress he's made on a number of them. Why, or how, is acknowledging that fact a 'transparently irrelevant argument'? The poster I responded to claimed it's been a shit Presidency thus far. That's his or her right to claim; all I did was make an argument as to why many millions of Americans would disagree.
 
Cheesy said:
Plenty of people don't agree with illegal immigration but condemn Trump's use of language. Saying "you don't condone it" is a poor line of defence when you repeatedly defend him. Additionally, plenty of left-wingers condemned Obama for plenty and just felt he was better than any deranged Republican alternatives.
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Look, I'm not bashing Obama. I really like the man and felt he was suffocated by the powers within Washington. He's a pacifist by nature and had many great plans for the country but was stifled at many turns by the opposition, not to mention dragged into international conflicts he simply did not want to engage in by people inside his own administration. I'm just using that example earlier to outline the hypocrisy at play when it comes to the vitriol directed towards Trump, that's all.
 
Buchan said:
But I'm not. I actually think I'm pointing out something that doesn't actually need to be pointed out: there's a very sizeable percentage of the American electorate who are not only satisfied with Trump's Presidency so far, they are elated with it.
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https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

He's the most unpopular POTUS since polling began. This is widely recorded and accepted outside of his arsehole.

Buchan said:
Trump ran on memorable campaign policies (whether they were morally right is another argument) which every voter in America and those following around the world can remember (something his opponent failed miserably to replicate).
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Classic Clinton burn, well done.

Buchan said:
His supporters, I'm sure, will be quite happy with the progress he's made on a number of them.
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Idk, rumours from Moscow are that they're having buyers remorse.

Buchan said:
Why, or how, is acknowledging that fact a 'transparently irrelevant argument'? The poster I responded to claimed it's been a shit Presidency thus far. That's his or her right to claim; all I did was make an argument as to why many millions of Americans would disagree.
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See point one. He's historically unpopular.
 
Saying Trump is just talking about illegal immigration and saying Obama did the same is straight from Kellyanne Conway's playbook. Try harder or people might figure out you're not really a big liberal.
 
Buchan said:
Look, I'm not bashing Obama. I really like the man and felt he was suffocated by the powers within Washington. He's a pacifist by nature and had many great plans for the country but was stifled at many turns by the opposition, not to mention dragged into international conflicts he simply did not want to engage in. I'm just using that example earlier to outline the hypocrisy at play when it comes to the vitriol directed towards Trump, that's all.
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Again though, the difference is the language Trump uses. It's all well and good to say he's bombastic and exaggerates and it's just the way he is, but his words don't exist in a vacuum - now he holds power they have an actual effect on actual people. Obama, I'd argue, for all his faults was diplomatic and was able to argue sensibly against illegal immigration without creating the stigma against them that Trump perpetrates. Because Trump's comments can often incite nasty racist-types who've been looking for someone like them to give their views a platform on a national scale. Hence the fact he was backed by the KKK and Neo Nazi alt-right type groups led by Spencer and the like.
 
Silva said:
There's a clear difference between someone being against illegal immigration and calling immigrants rapists. That you're still conflating the two makes your lip services in the first paragraph seem incredibly insincere.
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We're getting into nuanced territory here where it's impossible for either of us to prove the other wrong. For me, I personally don't think Trump considered every illegal immigrant to be a rapist or a drug-dealer. He just jumped on the populist idea of the time when the issue was whipping up a frenzy within marginalised sections of society, mainly poor whites families who blamed their demise on Obama, globalisation and the influx of immigrants across the border.
 
Buchan said:
We're getting into nuanced territory here where it's impossible for either of us to prove the other wrong. For me, I personally don't think Trump considered every illegal immigrant tonne a rapist or a drug-dealer. He just jumped on the populist idea of the time when the issue was whipping up a frenzy within marginalised sections of society, mainly poor whites families who blamed their demise on Obama, globalisation and the influx of immigrants across the border.
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But the language he used allows people to think he did. Which is what matters. Language is important in political discourse because certain words inherently hold power, and when someone's aiming to obtain a position of power they need to be aware of what their own words imply. Again, I don't see why Trump should be excused for this.
 
Buchan said:
We're getting into nuanced territory here where it's impossible for either of us to prove the other wrong. For me, I personally don't think Trump considered every illegal immigrant tonne a rapist or a drug-dealer. He just jumped on the populist idea of the time when the issue was whipping up a frenzy within marginalised sections of society, mainly poor whites families who blamed their demise on Obama, globalisation and the influx of immigrants across the border.
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You're definitely, categorically wrong. And is easily proven by comparing the clip you posted to the clip I posted. It would take an extraordinary lack comprehension to see those as being in the same realm.
 
Silva said:
You're definitely, categorically wrong. And is easily proven by comparing the clip you posted to the clip I posted. It would take an extraordinary lack comprehension to see those as being in the same realm.
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Even putting aside the Mexican example, the call for a Muslim ban is a perfect example of this because the idea of a 'complete' Muslim ban is problematic insofar as Trump was implying all Muslims were the problem. And this was inherently discriminatory irregardless of one's own personal position on radical Islam and Islam as a whole etc because it involved grouping a significant number of people together and demonising them in a uniform manner.
 
Cheesy said:
But the language he used allows people to think he did. Which is what matters. Language is important in political discourse because certain words inherently hold power, and when someone's aiming to obtain a position of power they need to be aware of what their own words imply. Again, I don't see why Trump should be excused for this.
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Oh, I agree 100%. He tapped into the feeling within certain sectors of society at the time and rode it for all it was worth. When he spoke of 'The Wall', I thought it was one monumental joke. He certainly should not be forgiven nor excused for that.
 
Cheesy said:
Even putting aside the Mexican example, the call for a Muslim ban is a perfect example of this because the idea of a 'complete' Muslim ban is problematic insofar as Trump was implying all Muslims were the problem. And this was inherently discriminatory irregardless of one's own personal position on radical Islam and Islam as a whole etc because it involved grouping a significant number of people together and demonising them in a uniform manner.
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Fecking hell. I forgot about the muslim ban. It's extraordinary how racist this man is. I'm also now reminded of Charlottesville, where he defended nazi's who walked around town shouting "Jews will not replace us" among other incredibly racist things.
 
Silva said:
Fecking hell. I forgot about the muslim ban. It's extraordinary how racist this man is. I'm also now reminded of Charlottesville, where he defended nazi's who walked around town shouting "Jews will not replace us" among other incredibly racist things.
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Yeah...and again on the issue of Islam, I don't think there's anything racist about highlighting issues with the religion as a whole or in taking measure to clamp down on conservative elements of Islam or in elements that are perpetrating radicalism...but calling for a complete Muslim ban made Trump's views on all Muslims undeniably clear, and claiming he's pulled back from them since then is a bit of a cop-out when it's clear it energised the types involved in the events at Charlottesville.
 
Cheesy said:
Yeah...and again on the issue of Islam, I don't think there's anything racist about highlighting issues with the religion as a whole or in taking measure to clamp down on conservative elements of Islam or in elements that are perpetrating radicalism...but calling for a complete Muslim ban made Trump's views on all Muslims undeniably clear, and claiming he's pulled back from them since then is a bit of a cop-out when it's clear it energised the types involved in the events at Charlottesville.
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He hasn't even pulled back on them. He's been denied them by the courts.
 
Buchan said:
Oh, I agree 100%. He tapped into the feeling within certain sectors of society at the time and rode it for all it was worth. When he spoke of 'The Wall', I thought it was one monumental joke. He certainly should not be forgiven nor excused for that.
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Which is why people will tend to get annoyed when you constantly excuse him for stuff in this thread. Especially when you're willing to admit plenty of his wrongs and that they do exist.
 
Oh god, I see this thread got Buchakked again.
 
Silva said:
Fecking hell. I forgot about the muslim ban. It's extraordinary how racist this man is. I'm also now reminded of Charlottesville, where he defended nazi's who walked around town shouting "Jews will not replace us" among other incredibly racist things.
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There were some very fine people there remember, and violence on many sides.

The fact that the Muslim ban can slip out of memory speaks volumes.
 
Someone needs to post the Last Week Tonight with John Oliver from this week (end of season finale) he destroys Trump and his trolling and whataboutism. It was a joy to watch. I would but am on my phone.

It's definitely worth watching.
 
langster said:
Someone needs to post the Last Week Tonight with John Oliver from this week (end of season finale) he destroys Trump and his trolling and whataboutism. It was a joy to watch. I would but am on my phone.

It's definitely worth watching.
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It was like he'd been reading this thread and got sick of someone.
 
Cards For Humanity
http://mashable.com/2017/11/14/cards-against-humanity-saves-america-border-wall/#Cr80HHu0eaq3


"Donald Trump is a preposterous golem who is afraid of Mexicans. He is so afraid that he wants to build a $20 billion wall that everyone knows will accomplish nothing," the website reads. "So we’ve purchased a plot of vacant land on the border and retained a law firm specializing in eminent domain to make it as time-consuming and expensive as possible for the wall to get built."
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unchanged_lineup said:
Cards For Humanity
http://mashable.com/2017/11/14/cards-against-humanity-saves-america-border-wall/#Cr80HHu0eaq3

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This is great. Purchasing now.

Highlights from their FAQ:
I DON’T LIKE THAT YOU’RE GETTING POLITICAL. WHY DON’T YOU JUST STICK TO CARD GAMES?
Why don’t you stick to seeing how many Hot Wheels cars you can fit up your asshole?

WHEN WILL I RECEIVE MY GIFTS?
Throughout the month of December you will receive a veritable bukkake of surprises. Get ready.

I’D LIKE TO CANCEL MY ORDER.
We’d like to cancel the 2016 election, but neither of us is going to get what we want.

IS CARDS AGAINST HUMANITY BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT NOW?
We’re just being regular correct.
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Rado_N said:
It was like he'd been reading this thread and got sick of someone.
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:lol:

Seriously, this thread makes feck all sense to me right now, but I'm not taking him off ignore. I only told him I was doing it to save him replying to me. It's peaceful not reading his bullshit.
 
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