SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Alabaster Codify7 said:
Could the Asian figures be related to the fact not many of them are obese/overweight? Talking about the general population of course, not your wealthy flabby businessman type.
Click to expand...

Smoking rate in South and Southeast Asia is typically a lot higher than in most European countries. Since both smoking and obesity are risk factors, corona CFR should be similar in both regions but it evidently isn't.

There are so many things about the virus that we just don't know yet. If you were to ask me, my theory is the general population of South and Southeast Asia is younger than Europe; so those who get infected round these parts are typically of a younger demographic and therefore a much better chance of recovery.
 
TMDaines said:
The reason why Piers Morgan is such a Tuesday is that he's capable of being an good journalist and a tough interviewer, but spends most of his time taking the easier route to fame.
Click to expand...
He's terrible, just screams over anyone who has a different opinion to him.

Even in that video where he's actually in the right he ruins it by creating controversy that isn't there (claiming the women was laughing).
 
The infection rate in Germany has gone up again, unfortunately.
The head of Germany’s Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases has called on Germans to stay at home as much as possible after new figures showed the coronavirus infection rate had increased.

Lothar Wieler, president of the Robert Koch Institute, said the virus reproduction rate, dubbed ‘R’, is now at 1.0 in Germany, which means one person with the virus infects one other on average. Earlier this month, the rate was at 0.7.

It comes after Germany eased some of its lockdown restrictions last week, allowing retailers with floor space of up to 800 sq metres to reopen, along with car and bicycle dealers, and bookshops.
Click to expand...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...087157332a13d3#block-5ea80c268f087157332a13d3
 
From Guardain:

The Covid-19 death toll in England and Wales was 52.9% higher than the daily figures. The Office for National Statistics said it had recorded 21,284 fatalities that mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate as of 17 April, compared with 13,917 in the daily hospital death stats published by the government.

Sounds kind of important! Am totally confused how many have died in UK, given Government won’t also add in outside of hospital deaths too.

We pretend we live in a free press democracy which reports truth but in reality, our Government lies and cheats as much as any tin pot dictatorships.
 
sammsky1 said:
From Guardain:

The Covid-19 death toll in England and Wales was 52.9% higher than the daily figures. The Office for National Statistics said it had recorded 21,284 fatalities that mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate as of 17 April, compared with 13,917 in the daily hospital death stats published by the government.

Sounds kind of important! Am totally confused how many have died in UK, given Government won’t also add in outside of hospital deaths too.

We pretend we live in a free press democracy which reports truth but in reality, our Government lies and cheats as much as any tin pot dictatorships.
Click to expand...


They certainly do. I think was almost common knowledge though, we all know care homes have been major epicentres for deaths that haven't been counted towards the national figure. My aunt runs one in North-East England and they had a hellish 2 week period where they lost a good portion of their residents, they're thankfully now doing fine.
 
Wolverine said:
You are right that the government will say that we caught this thing in communities. It will be their most significant argument in a legal case in the future I'm sure.

What I will argue and many will argue in return is that its quite likely that we are catching this thing in our line of work. Many NHS workers are now working from hospital accommodation and living separate to their families (like myself) due to risk of passing this on to our loved ones. And the time we spend at work is infinitely more in terms of infectious risk than what we do in the community (in terms of exposure to in terms of time and percentage of people with COVID).

There is a study that looked into this incidentally
https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-dea...Lgbsyf5Ni4p0OySUF7G96r_Y#.XqMykfnrs_4.twitter
https://en.medshr.net/open/coronavi...QWaAbZh5by8ZUFoiIhTTPR9GmeISua8mhmDsvr_JrJdLs

Published 6 days ago they studied 119 doctors who died from COVID. incidentally it is well known that anaesthesia is the largest hospital speciality by far, yet not a single death among those 119 was there an anaesthetist or intensivist. Anaesthetists and intensivists get better PPE. Those doctors you would think might also be at risk of catching it in the community surely too?

Under 50s in the study represented 34% of deaths so it does affect a lot of younger people too, BAME doctors however and older doctors tend to be more represented though agreed in terms of mortality.

I agree that there needs to be consideration of demographic of doctors or healthcare workers exposed in the frontline to these patients but sadly with the burden of this thing + with rota gaps not a hope in hell that certain doctors will be exempt.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that reply @Wolverine . That article does include some interesting reading and will take some time to digest . one of the things that jumped out that jumped out though was the graph which showed total deaths , alongside the deaths of healthcare workers . Both lines seemed to grow at the same rate , would that indicate that healthcare workers are dying at the same rate as the general public . If not it would be interesting to see a comparrison. Do not for one minute think i,m defending government policy in every way during the pandemic by the way . I much prefer to see unbiased opinion before forming my own and to be honest the reporting by journos through this pandemic has been woeful at best . I do go back to one of my points though , that i have real concerns about the ages of some of the health workers who have sadly died . I take on board your point about being short staffed , but to be allowing workers in their 70s and 80s to be in contact with covid patients does appear to be risky , bordering on negligent ( though admirable that those poor souls were willing to knowingly risk their lives to help in a time of crisis )

one thing that is certain though is that every single aspect of our response will be disected in the public eye once things settle down and in a calm precise manner , not a trial by piers morgan and not by some heartbroken family member being wheeled out wanting imediate answers ( quite understandable by the way , but very rarely possible )
 
Not the kind of headline you'd expect to see from a global bank but credit where it's due:

HSBC has paused plans to cut 35,000 jobs, saying it does not want to leave staff unable to find work elsewhere during the coronavirus outbreak.
Click to expand...


 
Wolverine said:
What is interesting is the disconnect between public opinion in general about how the government is handling this and the people working in care homes or the NHS in general. Opinion polls show the Tory parties lead still holding steady and approval rating for Bojo still pretty high. How they've spinning their way out of this really is the worst thing about all of this.
Click to expand...

The gift of a two party system I guess? They don't necessarily have to do a good job, it's enough for voters to have a marginally bigger dislike for Labour.
And BoJo probably still has his own infection working in his favour.
 
Arruda said:
Could that be related to the news of an increase in strokes in young people? Saw something about that, shared here, on the Washington Post.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. They’re seeing D-Dimers staying high long after all their other bloods have come back to normal. So something’s happened to their coag pathways which takes a long time to settle down.
 
So today's figures, not including NI....

629.

546 (Eng), 13 (Wales), 70 (Scotland).

That's a leap from yesterday but 200 less than last Tuesday which is a significant improvement when you consider Tuesday is usually the biggest figure of the week. I know the care home / outside of hospital figures are depressing to read, but there are some positives here if we're looking at the numbers over the last three days.

I think yesterday, it ended up being a handful more than the figure I gave so I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 650 total.
 
Last edited:
So as posted on other threads on the Caf the New York Times is saying the infection rate in Germany has gone back to 1:0 after a period of relaxing the lockdown.

This period around the world needs to be treated with extreme caution and is crucial. Can't see the lockdown easing in the UK for another few weeks minimum, possibly longer if things continue to go wrong in other countries as evidenced.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. Reported deaths were 778, 6 fewer than Saturday. Pretty confident we're on the slide now.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
E5yPjz8.jpg
Click to expand...

Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. 546 deaths announced today, 232 fewer than this time last week. Decline seems to be pretty steady.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
2QC2fs0.jpg
 
sullydnl said:
Irish Independent reporting that lockdown in Ireland will be extended for another two weeks for the vast majority of people, with only restrictions on those who work outdoors being eased.
Click to expand...
Not sure what to make of the report. I've continued to work in the city centre as an "essential" worker and there has been a significant upturn in people being out and about since last week, any extension of a lockdown will be largely ignored I fear.

EDIT: RTÉ reporting no decision has been made as of today, think Independent were looking for clicks.
 
Last edited:
sammsky1 said:
I'm all for Tory minister bashing, but to be fair to her, this isn't her department.

Also Morgan was being an tit by constantly taking over her and saying she was 'laughing'. She wasn't, and that negates how people will view the interview.

She's an idiot for agreeing to be interviewed on a subject beyond her expertise, when Tories know any public interview will be heavily skewed towards NHS Covid19 controversies.
Click to expand...

His reaction wasn't down to her not being able to answer but her refusing to do anything other than repeat pre prepared lines to questions he hasn't asked. If she doesn't know why is she dishing out "we've followed the science" mantra. Are you telling me she isn't aware of exercise cygnus? Couldn't have just said yes but you'll have to refer any questions to the health department?

Government ministers are put forward to answer questions from these shows, they don't decide the direction and they're not just there to be given air time to repeat prepared propoganda lines without scrutiny.

The right are simultaneously claiming that the opposition challenging the government is partisan politics and also that the media should refrain from tough questions. Great stuff isn't it.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. 546 deaths announced today, 232 fewer than this time last week. Decline seems to be pretty steady.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
2QC2fs0.jpg
Click to expand...



It's definitely a good sign yeah. A big decrease from this time last week. It would be a big morale boost if each day this week continues to show a decline from the numbers reported at the same time last week.
 
Georgia Mayors Speak Out After Governor Makes Call To Reopen Despite COVID-19 Outbreaks

 
We need to find out the exact number of care home deaths. Why are old people being left to die in care homes when the NHS has not been overwhelmed in any way? Is this the treatment I can look forward to in this country as I get older?

This is totally ridiculous. I hate modern politics.
 
spiriticon said:
We need to find out the exact number of care home deaths. Why are old people being left to die in care homes when the NHS has not been overwhelmed in any way?

This is totally ridiculous. I hate modern politics.
Click to expand...
This is the other scandal going on - If you reside in care homes or assisted living places you have essentially been pressured to agree on a "Do Not Resuscitate" approach if you catch it. If you live in your own accommodation then you are slightly higher up the pecking order but will still struggle to get an ambulance response. Italy and Spain were swamped and so had to make these sort of hard triage decisions, but the UK had prior notice and should have prepared better. When this is all over there will have to be a complete re-think of social care because people will refuse to put their relatives in care homes when the respective death rates get published.

There are some great privately and publicly run old peoples homes out there, and the sector has been badly let down by the DHSC with the absence of PPE. However the whole "Herd Immunity" approach seems to have created, in some, a culture of being happy to abandon people over a certain age for the sake of the economy. This will not be forgotten and has been totally shown up by New Zealand. We have created the worst of both worlds and saddled ourselves with massive debts for one of the worst death rates in the world.
 
spiriticon said:
We need to find out the exact number of care home deaths. Why are old people being left to die in care homes when the NHS has not been overwhelmed in any way? Is this the treatment I can look forward to in this country as I get older?

This is totally ridiculous. I hate modern politics.
Click to expand...

Given that most care homes are privately run and for profit......yes it will be what you can expect the older you get. One of the things that has puzzled me about the crisis is the hammering the government is taking for not providing PPE for care homes when over 80 percent of them are private businesses. We should also then be complaining for them not providing PPE to private hospitals should we not. Media take on the crisis has been piss poor.
 
Virgil said:
Given that most care homes are privately run and for profit......yes it will be what you can expect the older you get. One of the things that has puzzled me about the crisis is the hammering the government is taking for not providing PPE for care homes when over 80 percent of them are private businesses. We should also then be complaining for them not providing PPE to private hospitals should we not. Media take on the crisis has been piss poor.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there is massive coverage about PPE in hospitals as well.

What I don't understand is why we can't take these old people into hospitals for the healthcare that they need? Yes, tough decisions need to be made if the NHS is overwhelmed. But it isn't.

What's the point in turning old people away from the hospital when it is them who actually need help the most and we have the capacity to help them? If we try our best and they pass anyway in hospital, so be it. But fecking try, at least.

"The NHS is for everyone" (except the old and those with underlying health conditions lol)
 
Last edited:
Virgil said:
Given that most care homes are privately run and for profit......yes it will be what you can expect the older you get. One of the things that has puzzled me about the crisis is the hammering the government is taking for not providing PPE for care homes when over 80 percent of them are private businesses. We should also then be complaining for them not providing PPE to private hospitals should we not. Media take on the crisis has been piss poor.
Click to expand...
where do you think care homes get their ppe
 
Virgil said:
Given that most care homes are privately run and for profit......yes it will be what you can expect the older you get. One of the things that has puzzled me about the crisis is the hammering the government is taking for not providing PPE for care homes when over 80 percent of them are private businesses. We should also then be complaining for them not providing PPE to private hospitals should we not. Media take on the crisis has been piss poor.
Click to expand...

Ah the old privatise it and it's not my fault mantra.

The state no matter what you think has a duty of care to everyone. If private care homes couldn't source PPE of course the government should be assisting as it not only impacts the staff but also residents. I'd be intrigued to understand if legally private care homes even have to provide PPE to the same level.

The biggest feck up here is the lack of testing which meant what hope was there from it not getting into care homes.

"Just wash your hands"
 
The amount of people who rather than admit they voted for a bunch of ill prepared knobheads will put their fingers in their ears and complain aboht the media is terrifying.
 
spiriticon said:
We need to find out the exact number of care home deaths. Why are old people being left to die in care homes when the NHS has not been overwhelmed in any way? Is this the treatment I can look forward to in this country as I get older?

This is totally ridiculous. I hate modern politics.
Click to expand...
Because chillingly ,they do not care. Less old and disabled ,less burden on the economy. Why they are on the
DNRs list.
 
fergies coat said:
And what's to say the other lot would of faired any better? There all as bad as each other. Get your head out of the sand.
Click to expand...

Yes they are all as bad as each other and even if it had been a government of national unity it would still have fecked it up. As for the media all I can say is thank god the same pillocks were not about during WW2. Then we fecked up Poland, France, Dunkirk, Norway....etc etc. If the same tosspots working with hindsight today were commentating then we would have begged Germany for peace within the first twelve months.

And as for private homes they also have a duty of care it cannot all be passed sideways onto any government. If they can simply pass that duty on what’s the fecking point of them. Might just as well say that employers like Branson are quite right to say it’s not his responsibility to support his workers if they are not making him a profit.
 
Wumminator said:
The amount of people who rather than admit they voted for a bunch of ill prepared knobheads will put their fingers in their ears and complain aboht the media is terrifying.
Click to expand...
This is new ground for these people. They have had the media on their side for years but now the media have decided to pull the government up for the blatant negligence that has resulted in the death of thousands they haven't got the ammunition to defend themselves any more so they double down on blatant lies and make outlandish claims instead of admitting they voted for a party that would inject their nans with the virus if it saved them paying out a state pension.
 
Give those on minimum wage a pay rise, that is what they want. Not singing or clapping.
 
The 'ageing process' is not defined as an illness and for a long time now hospitals have not been geared to looking after elderly people whose main health problem is that of ageing, or as my Grandmother said 'gradually wearing out'. Those with a chronic illness like cancer are catered for in hospices to see out their end of life cycle, but others with just the average ageing issues, i.e. failing heart, failing organs, dementia etc. just become 'bed blockers'. This is what happens generally, whilst care homes can care for the elderly who are generally fit, but not when they have advanced ageing issues and when something like Covid-19 arrives well that just blows everything up. Contagion of any known kind in a care home can be difficult and nigh impossible to control, but when we know practically nothing about how to treat it, then Care homes both for residents and staff become not the front line, but effectively 'no man's land'.

Italy which has a much higher age population deals with things differently, or so I recall. Some 20 years ago I was working on an IT project in Italy which involved a seven story building, on the top three floors elderly people lived in their own self contained flats but with communal access to various 'common' rooms, i.e. dining, lounge, TV rooms etc. with alarm systems throughout to summon help when needed. The fourth floor had a more sheltered environment when personal care could be administered privately to those residents unable to move freely, the second and third floors were quipped as a hospital and the ground floor was a mortuary. As one man told me "we come in at the top and work our way to the bottom", everyone involved, residents and staff seem to accept it was a good idea.

That's what you can call a care for the elderly set up!

* First floor was all admin and offices ... in case anyone was wondering!!
 
Ive helped patients fill out Do Not Resuscitate orders all the time. They do not mean that people do not get treatment and doesnt determine whether they go to hospital.

We have phased out the DNARs now for Respect forms which can formulate ceiling of intervention for some patients which is also discussed with them in their advanced care plans.

Vast majority of inpatients in covid wards that we are treating are elderly.
 
Seems they have changed the wording of the fifth stipulation regarding the end of the lockdown. Now it's not just avoiding a second peak as it was before but instead avoiding one that overwhelms the NHS.
 
Watching the daily briefing.

What a struggle this has been for the Deputy Chief Scientific Adviser.

And Hancock gave a contradictory answer to the question from a member of the public re shielding.
 
Virgil said:
Yes they are all as bad as each other and even if it had been a government of national unity it would still have fecked it up. As for the media all I can say is thank god the same pillocks were not about during WW2. Then we fecked up Poland, France, Dunkirk, Norway....etc etc. If the same tosspots working with hindsight today were commentating then we would have begged Germany for peace within the first twelve months.
Click to expand...
So it's the media's job to unquestioningly spout government propaganda while our thousands of avoidable deaths rack up due to serious policy errors and health workers die due to government incompetence?
 
fergies coat said:
And what's to say the other lot would of faired any better? There all as bad as each other. Get your head out of the sand.
Click to expand...

What the actual goverment did or didn't do are real facts with real consequences for the people, what another goverment might have done is pure speculation. I don't think you can go further in the head into sand department than just declaring any kind of criticism irrelevant, because you don't like the other guys.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.