More good news from Austria. New infections have been around 50 per day for the last two weeks and the number of active cases has declined sharply. Restrictions on going out will be lifted on Friday. People won't need a valid reason to go out and gatherings up to ten people will be allowed. But a distance of one meter to people not from your household will be required. Restaurants and hotels are reopening in May and the government has been talking about reopening tourism for countries that have acted similarly and are at a comparable stage of the pandemic, namely the Czech Republic and Germany.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
The more i read, the more it looks like not a huge amount is changing. The only real difference is we will be allowed to go outside to exercise. You still need to self certify a valid reason for any kind of movement and i won't be thrilled if we have to run with a mask on.
You sure your local shopowner isn't the Mayor's cousin or something
Great news.
We've got the noises coming out then about the government finally having 'the conversations' about how we exit this lockdown and the next phase.......the heat is getting too much for them. News of people beginning to ignore the lockdown rules more, 50% more traffic on the roads, Panorama and the media sticking the boot in more each week. Time for a nice Tory PR stunt, soon enough. Expect Boris to use words such as 'brave', 'courage', 'war', 'united front' when explaining how we'll mildly relax measures to make us all feel like we're fighting in the trenches together. #DunkirkSpirit
Other Coronaviruses mild and 4 only responsible for 20% of colds therefore not commercial to develop. SARS and MERS viruses were controlled before there was the need for a vaccine. SARS-CoV-2 a single virus and a ver widespread urgent need = huge demand = commercially justifiable.
I think that was more or less it.
What reality are you living in? Boris came back yesterday and could not have been clearer about the fact we are nowhere near where we need to be to come out the other side of this lock down. This is a right wing government who’s number one concern has always been the economy and yet he’s resolute that lock down is here to stay.
I think he is right about the previous lack of motivation but wrong about a SARS-CoV-2 vsccine being a foregone conclusion.
I though we had a vaccine for a canine coronavirus?
Haha, I'm fuming at the moment about it! When the form is scrapped later in May (hopefully), I assume we'll be able to travel freely in our regions because we won't have to give a reason for leaving the house. There's virtually nothing here where we live, it's been really difficult! Yes, we can get "essentials" here, but we'd like a little choice in food and provisions ....The more i read, the more it looks like not a huge amount is changing. The only real difference is we will be allowed to go outside to exercise. You still need to self certify a valid reason for any kind of movement and i won't be thrilled if we have to run with a mask on.
You sure your local shopowner isn't the Mayor's cousin or something
That panorama documentary really hit home, essential viewing for everybody in my opinion
The 60k figure for families of NHS worker's who've died is still yet to be scrutinised. I believe there is a 27 page document due to be released to outline what the payment entails. There is the NHS pensions scheme payout for death in service (2 years' salary) and this may be just for those who don't contribute to the pensions scheme, there are questions whether it is applicable to locum or trust grade doctors or those who are on Tier 2 visas.
I think a lot of my colleagues believe this is an effort to prevent legal proceedings against government negligence.
Then today there's Matt Hancock taking questions on LBC today from a son of a doctor who died while raising alarms about PPE and not directly apologising
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/present...-doctor-who-died-of-coronavirus-calls-matt-h/
What is interesting is the disconnect between public opinion in general about how the government is handling this and the people working in care homes or the NHS in general. Opinion polls show the Tory parties lead still holding steady and approval rating for Bojo still pretty high. How they've spinning their way out of this really is the worst thing about all of this.
That's what a lot of NHS staff talk about, all we have between us and a deadly disease every day is a flimsy apron and non-woven fabric on our faces. We know that those colleagues who have died are all those who have are working in areas without FFP3 and gowns or coveralls yet nothing is being done. Corporate manslaughter in real time.
Two majors pushbacks to this can't happen soon enough.
Two doctors pursuing legal action against the government for inadequate PPE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...enge-uk-government-on-ppe-risks-to-bame-staff
and another legally challenging the government to publish the results of Exercise Cygnus which was a three-day simulation in 2016 looking into preparedness (or lack thereof) of the UK in confronting a hypothetical pandemic, government has rejected a FOI request to publish the report in full
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/26/doctor-sue-results-operation-cygnus
The 60k figure for families of NHS worker's who've died is still yet to be scrutinised. I believe there is a 27 page document due to be released to outline what the payment entails. There is the NHS pensions scheme payout for death in service (2 years' salary) and this may be just for those who don't contribute to the pensions scheme, there are questions whether it is applicable to locum or trust grade doctors or those who are on Tier 2 visas.
I think a lot of my colleagues believe this is an effort to prevent legal proceedings against government negligence.
Then today there's Matt Hancock taking questions on LBC today from a son of a doctor who died while raising alarms about PPE and not directly apologising
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/present...-doctor-who-died-of-coronavirus-calls-matt-h/
What is interesting is the disconnect between public opinion in general about how the government is handling this and the people working in care homes or the NHS in general. Opinion polls show the Tory parties lead still holding steady and approval rating for Bojo still pretty high. How they've spinning their way out of this really is the worst thing about all of this.
That's what a lot of NHS staff talk about, all we have between us and a deadly disease every day is a flimsy apron and non-woven fabric on our faces. We know that those colleagues who have died are all those who have are working in areas without FFP3 and gowns or coveralls yet nothing is being done. Corporate manslaughter in real time.
Two majors pushbacks to this can't happen soon enough.
Two doctors pursuing legal action against the government for inadequate PPE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...enge-uk-government-on-ppe-risks-to-bame-staff
and another legally challenging the government to publish the results of Exercise Cygnus which was a three-day simulation in 2016 looking into preparedness (or lack thereof) of the UK in confronting a hypothetical pandemic, government has rejected a FOI request to publish the report in full
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/26/doctor-sue-results-operation-cygnus
Interesting because in the UK the Indian community has been the worst affected ethnicity.
It's the same across South and South East Asia.
Aside from India; Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines also showing relatively low numbers.
Surely not all of their Governments are lying with mass cover ups?
Irish Independent reporting that lockdown in Ireland will be extended for another two weeks for the vast majority of people, with only restrictions on those who work outdoors being eased.
How hard is it to just say 'sorry we weren't able to protect your father in this case, we'll of course look at this and all cases to see if more could have been done".
They're still stuck in election mode and putting party before actually being good public servants.
Meanwhile there seems to be a real movement amongst the right to a US style mistrust of the media. Journalism is being attacked not through debate but by being dismissed because they dare challenge the party line. It won't be long before we have a news channel like Fox over here.
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My fecking God. Those ONS figures. They are even worse than the most sober expectations. This thing is massacring, and I do not use that word lightly, care homes.
The correct response is you can hug them if you want them to be the ones to kill you.
Lithuania: Just 5 new cases according to yesterday's test (5k+) results. Quite a few things have opened up already; outside cafes, shopping centres, hair and beauty saloons, etc., and tomorrow I've got an appointment with a barber, finally.
They're also all among the lowest for testing too. The data is not trustworthy. If they're unable to sufficiently test the living they're certainly not going to be testing all the deceased.
We will have to wait months or years until the developing world has a chance to assess the true impact.
Has anybody still got hope that lockdown restrictions will be lifted in any meaningful way in 2020? I've totally given up on that and have declared this year a total write off - no holidays, no pubs, etc.
Really dont agree with this to be honest . The time for apologies will come after the public enquiries that will take place after this . If he apologises now for the poor guys death , would that be an admission of guilt ? do we really know beyond any doubt that he caught covid at work for instance .( its very likely , but can it 100 % be gauranteed ) Do we know what level of ppe he had on , was adhering to guidelines at all times . Knee jerk admissions , or accusations of blame for that matter do nothing to help when the situation is ongoing , like a verdict before a trial in effect .
Regarding the deaths of nhs care staff i do have concerns which will no doubt need to be looked into . The main one concerns the numbers and demographics of the dead . One thing that to me has been concerning are the ages of them . I was looking at a list of the dead the other day and it shocked me how many of them were in their late 60s , 70s and even into thier 80s . Surely these high risk staff should have been sent home as this pandemic developed . My mate works in a garage ( big , nationwide dealership ) . As soon as deaths started to rise , all vulnerable and old staff were told to leave site with immediate effect . To me thats a responsible action to take . I,m shocked trust managers at nhs establishments did not take similar action to protect staff , especially given the risk of transmission and viral load.
The reason why Piers Morgan is such a Tuesday is that he's capable of being an good journalist and a tough interviewer, but spends most of his time taking the easier route to fame.
We don't have enough staff as it is - that is the problem within the NHS and why we have been asking retired nurses and doctors to volunteer to come back - these people are extremely brave as they know they are vulnerable and putting themselves at risk.
In the interest of a little positivity, biotech dude from previous page shared this video, which I’m halfway through.
The presenter works for a pretty reputable institution and dumbs down the immunology very well. Covers most of what we know about this virus from an immunological perspective and should be easy enough for anyone who has done biology at any level to follow. Or even if you’ve never done biology you should follow most of it. He is VERY positive about our chances of developing effective vaccine and therapies.
I suspect there’s an element of this being a sales pitch for his company but I generally have good faith in the essential honesty of academics like him, even when they’re conflicted.
The presenter works for a pretty reputable institution and dumbs down the immunology very well. Covers most of what we know about this virus from an immunological perspective and should be easy enough for anyone who has done biology at any level to follow. Or even if you’ve never done biology you should follow most of it. He is VERY positive about our chances of developing effective vaccine and therapies.
I suspect there’s an element of this being a sales pitch for his company but I generally have good faith in the essential honesty of academics like him, even when they’re conflicted.
Would shock you the number of people calling the criticism of the government an anti-brexit plot.
We have turned to America. Don't have any doubt about it.
We have turned to America. Don't have any doubt about it.
You are right that the government will say that we caught this thing in communities. It will be their most significant argument in a legal case in the future I'm sure.
What I will argue and many will argue in return is that its quite likely that we are catching this thing in our line of work. Many NHS workers are now working from hospital accommodation and living separate to their families (like myself) due to risk of passing this on to our loved ones. And the time we spend at work is infinitely more in terms of infectious risk than what we do in the community (in terms of exposure to in terms of time and percentage of people with COVID).
There is a study that looked into this incidentally
https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-dea...Lgbsyf5Ni4p0OySUF7G96r_Y#.XqMykfnrs_4.twitter
https://en.medshr.net/open/coronavi...QWaAbZh5by8ZUFoiIhTTPR9GmeISua8mhmDsvr_JrJdLs
Published 6 days ago they studied 119 doctors who died from COVID. incidentally it is well known that anaesthesia is the largest hospital speciality by far, yet not a single death among those 119 was there an anaesthetist or intensivist. Anaesthetists and intensivists get better PPE. Those doctors you would think might also be at risk of catching it in the community surely too?
Under 50s in the study represented 34% of deaths so it does affect a lot of younger people too, BAME doctors however and older doctors tend to be more represented though agreed in terms of mortality.
I agree that there needs to be consideration of demographic of doctors or healthcare workers exposed in the frontline to these patients but sadly with the burden of this thing + with rota gaps not a hope in hell that certain doctors will be exempt.
Indonesia's low death count is a large underestimate. A journalist from Reuters discovered just today that around 2,200 Indonesians, on top of the official numbers, have died of hallmark corona symptoms in the past few months (though tuberculosis is severely endemic here). That said, the number of cases is also an underestimate due to limited testing capabilities -- most experts and even our government, who have been accused by some quarters of manipulating corona-related data, believe the real number is close to 50,000.
But your point remains true: 3000/50000 gives you a CFR of six percent or thereabouts. Relatively lower than the numbers you see in many parts of Europe.
Yep, it's mental what happened to the UK. They even turned on Piers Morgan, blaming NHS for everything now.
Could the Asian figures be related to the fact not many of them are obese/overweight? Talking about the general population of course, not your wealthy flabby businessman type.
Is that an issue in Italy?
100% yes, for me. If you've written off 2020, I would write off 2021,2022 and so on as well because we'd be well and truly fecked as a nation. There will be no holidays, pubs, etc in general, not just this year, and as a result the economy is dusted. I don't see it happening at all, just my opinion of course. Small businesses in South Wales have already been whispering about reopening soon, holiday companies have been advised (obviously, this can and likely will change) that they can start running holidays from mid-May (TUI i think, very optimistic that one) and mid-June (I think Jet2 or something like that). Basically, if you want to go abroad, I think you can by mid-late June. Hell, scratch that - you can go tomorrow. There are many countries that don't have a travel ban nor a strict lockdown, if you could find a flight and wanted to go, you could go somewhere tomorrow. I know this for a fact because I've been keeping tabs on certain countries for potential summer holidays myself, and those I'm looking at are lifting travel restrictions in mid-May. There are also reduced flights to those countries, running once a week or similar from the UK. More frequently from some other capitals in Europe. Costa del Sol (not my cup of tea whatseover but a good example of a popular Brit destination) are aiming to open their bars by late May.
No, but I'd imagine the 'oldest population in Europe' has quite a bit to do with it, in Italy's case.
I really hope you are right! I'm quite pessimistic though on this - work in NHS and things are not good and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I had to work through Easter bank holidays and have been advised that all May bank holidays are also cancelled.
Some of the Asian countries are on a pretty heavily policed lock-down so that has to be taken into account.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rodrig...ident-coronavirus-lockdown-shoot-people-dead/
There's an interesting line in that article which may or may not be true "So far, actions taken by authoritarian governments have proven most effective in stemming the spread of the virus – asking citizens to sacrifice privacy and some of their freedoms in exchange for public health. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rodrig...ident-coronavirus-lockdown-shoot-people-dead/
There's an interesting line in that article which may or may not be true "So far, actions taken by authoritarian governments have proven most effective in stemming the spread of the virus – asking citizens to sacrifice privacy and some of their freedoms in exchange for public health. "
I'm all for Tory minister bashing, but to be fair to her, this isn't her department.
Also Morgan was being an tit by constantly taking over her and saying she was 'laughing'. She wasn't, and that negates how people will view the interview.
She's an idiot for agreeing to be interviewed on a subject beyond her expertise, when Tories know any public interview will be heavily skewed towards NHS Covid19 controversies.
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The death rate isnt that low in india.. its about 3.3% of the reported cases.. which is about what would be expected till it starts spreading a lot faster and the hospitals start getting at full capacity..
30k is a lot of cases, but india is also a huge country. Mumbai alone has a population of nearly 20m.
We also have probably the strictest lockdown outside of China... with a few notable lapses.
30k is a lot of cases, but india is also a huge country. Mumbai alone has a population of nearly 20m.
We also have probably the strictest lockdown outside of China... with a few notable lapses.
Anyone know more about this Oxford trial vaccine? Given to monkeys who then didn't catch covid 19 Vs the others who caught it?
Many theories and hypothesis why South and South East Asia numbers are seemingly much lower:
- Quicker and more authoritarian implementation of lockdown and banning incoming international travel.
- Mask wearing immediately adopted by mass population limiting spread
- Stronger immunity systems because of harsher or less cleanly living environments
- Much younger demographic profile
- covid19 virus less effective and doesn't thrive in hot and humid weather.
- Generally better diet and less obesity
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Looks like another 2 weeks will be added to the current lockdown in Ireland. Can really see that people are starting to get fed up of the current restrictions. I hope the Government have good justification for it as well as a feasible plan for lifting restrictions throughout the summer in place or else people will start giving zero shites where they go and who they see.
Personally I'm fine with it continuing but there has to be some sense of progress or an end point given to us this time so that it shows they actually have a clue what they're doing.
Personally I'm fine with it continuing but there has to be some sense of progress or an end point given to us this time so that it shows they actually have a clue what they're doing.
Could that be related to the news of an increase in strokes in young people? Saw something about that, shared here, on the Washington Post.