SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

One Night Only said:
It's pretty fair tbh, the general public are being total asshats and not following simple guidelines. Government chose to treat us like adults, now it's time they step up and treat us like the children we are.

Alot of people on furlough are using this like a massive holiday.

People shopping to get out the house for a bit. Everyone going insane now it's been 5 weeks? All because they couldn't stick to it properly from the start.

Whoever mentioned we are doing herd immunity lite is correct. The public can't follow simple rules so it's our only option till a vaccine is found.
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This is a bonkers argument. Who do you count as "the general public"...a vast majority are following the guidelines to the letter, and many of those that aren't are making little difference to anything. Who is shopping to "get out for a bit"? What shops are they going in when only the essential ones are even open? It's just childish presumptuous nonsense to be honest.

I don't know ANYONE on furlough using it as a holiday. Most are just at home getting on with the situation or are worried they wont have a job after.

"It's our only option until a vaccine is found"...I don't even know where to start with this. How do you propose to produce a vaccine in time to stop hundreds of thousands of people dying as prisoners in their own homes within the next year? Statistically lockdown has killed potentially 5000+ people in the space of two weeks...we're at 5 weeks now. That number is going to be 10,000+...as an example, I know of one person who has committed suicide. My dad who is on the at risk list is smoking and drinking 3x as much...this is AS dangerous to his health condition as corona virus.

Lockdown measures even as they are are NOT a viable medium or long term plan. They are nowhere close to it. For all we know we are already approaching the point now where they do more damage than they prevent.

Did you know that there is no guarantee there'll ever be a vaccine? Did you knwo that when there is it'll be of little use to a lot of people on the at risk list because their imune system isn't strong enough to deal with a vaccine? The flu has been around for 100 years and the vaccine for that is still only useful to a very small percentage of people.

What is needed is better research and testing rather than childish blame games where the person being blamed is "the general public"...basically saying it's people's fault for existing. If that's the case we might as well have no lockdown measures and carry on as normal.
 
Kag said:
Jumped up, Facebook-warrior dogshit, to be frank.

The vast majority of the general public has overwhelmingly followed the guidance implemented, as is evident by all kinds of data to support this.

There are businesses that have started to return to work over the past week, which will only increase as people start to feel the burn of financial penalty. People will follow guidance until putting food on the table becomes an issue. On that front, we’re getting there.
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Absolute shite, look a the "clap" in whatever bridge it was, look at the companies still working when told not to if it's not essential.

People are pretending to follow guidelines but they're not, I've seen loads preach in Facebook, but then they're at the shops 3-4 times a week? Or they've nipped to see their mam?

It's a smokescreen from people, telling social media what they want them to.

A Chinese takeaway opened here last night I think it was, queues for miles, no social distancing.

If you are the type sticking to the guidelines perfectly, then your circle of friends / associates are probably from the same type of cloth and do the same so that's what you see.

Look at a different demographic to yourself and see what is happening, young people (16-30) who have the jobless, drug using, drinking lifestyle. They haven't stopped point blank.

I know "sensible" people who think a shop at b and m for new curtains is essential.

Maybe I went OTT saying general public are asshats, but there are enough asshats to destroy it, the busy bodies reporting people are also breaking the rules cos they're constantly out for any excuse to catch other people. I know dogs that haven't been walked for years suddenly getting dragged about by owners, friends, family, just so they have an extra excuse to go out. Now the police aren't that arsed, the dog paths are just about empty as they were before lockdown.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Didn't the lads in Ireland say that there were English traveling over to second homes and bringing caravans over? Georgie Bingham on Talksport was going apoplectic this morning about the supermarket she was using, getting rid of the distancing markers, letting as many people in as wanted to go in all at once and social distancing had gone completely out of the window.
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You are right, the UK only advised against it, while many other countries have forbidden non essential travels within and outside countries. I sometimes forgot that we are not in the same countries.

Look at France on flight trackers, there is very little activity.
 
giggs-beckham said:
That's what I'm saying, how hard was it for them to say that?
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It wasn’t. I think the government should have been clearer (and significantly quicker) on many things from the outset. But limiting exercise time to a specific timeframe was, ultimately, not policy.
 
JMack1234 said:
My local park is the busiest it's been since the lockdown came in. Loads of people having pic nics, sunbathing etc. I'd say it's at about the level it was the weekend before the lockdown came in.

Obviously that's anecdotal, but you accompany that with businesses beginning to re-open and the roads getting busier.

Lockdown beginning to fizzle out?
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Fatigue and the government in near open warfare while making noises about easing restrictions. That said the local park here had literally 2 people in it earlier. The least busy I've ever seen it...but there has been noticably more traffic the last couple of days.
 
noodlehair said:
This is a bonkers argument. Who do you count as "the general public"...a vast majority are following the guidelines to the letter, and many of those that aren't are making little difference to anything. Who is shopping to "get out for a bit"? What shops are they going in when only the essential ones are even open? It's just childish presumptuous nonsense to be honest.

I don't know ANYONE on furlough using it as a holiday. Most are just at home getting on with the situation or are worried they wont have a job after.

"It's our only option until a vaccine is found"...I don't even know where to start with this. How do you propose to produce a vaccine in time to stop hundreds of thousands of people dying as prisoners in their own homes within the next year? Statistically lockdown has killed potentially 5000+ people in the space of two weeks...we're at 5 weeks now. That number is going to be 10,000+...as an example, I know of one person who has committed suicide. My dad who is on the at risk list is smoking and drinking 3x as much...this is AS dangerous to his health condition as corona virus.

Lockdown measures even as they are are NOT a viable medium or long term plan. They are nowhere close to it. For all we know we are already approaching the point now where they do more damage than they prevent.

Did you know that there is no guarantee there'll ever be a vaccine? Did you knwo that when there is it'll be of little use to a lot of people on the at risk list because their imune system isn't strong enough to deal with a vaccine? The flu has been around for 100 years and the vaccine for that is still only useful to a very small percentage of people.
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So if there is never a vaccine you want us all to just basically be imprisoned forever?

Also see my post before this. Mentioning about demographics and back tracking on general public a bit.

I'm not a fan of lockdown, but my point is if everyone could have just stuck to it for a few weeks, and done what the guidance said, we wouldn't be in a forever loop of lockdown which from the stats is looking likely for the foreseeable.

It's took since 23rd march and we have flattened the curve, that's pretty good overall, but from the amount of posts in here, it's obvious everyone is become more relaxed over it all and more people are out and about.

Anyone who has stuck to it so far isn't going to be able to keep it up for much longer, it's becoming tiring. I'm lucky enough I'm a key worker and get to goto work for a break from the 4 walls, the missus and the kids. Not everyone has that luxury.
 
Kag said:
It wasn’t. I think the government should have been clearer (and significantly quicker) on many things from the outset. But limiting exercise time to a specific timeframe was, ultimately, not policy.
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That's the point I was making they said excersise once a day but didnt say how long for. Again how hard was it for them to put say a 1 hour limit on it but they didnt is the clear point I was making.
 
JPRouve said:
You are right, the UK only advised against it, while many other countries have forbidden non essential travels within and outside countries. I sometimes forgot that we are not in the same countries.

Look at France on flight trackers, there is very little activity.
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It's mad seeing that was likely how it was spread in the first place. It's amazing how complacent people have been and those numbers are growing.
 
Tbf according to Chris Whitty the UK's R(0) number is somewhere between 0.5 and 1. If so then a lot of people have definitely been abiding by lockdown properly.

Immediately blaming the UK public seems strange to me. Like all other publics, they have to be managed through a crisis like this. If that doesn't happen (or indeed even if there are bad outcomes despite that happening) then I would be inclined to look at the government's actions, timing and messaging first and ask if that's where the fault lies.
 
Balljy said:
If that's not essential, nothing is.
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Silva said:
ours has been coming every 2 days for a fortnight now, essential my arse
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One Night Only said:
The feck? I'll have a 99 with a flake!
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In fairness it's well known that my local ice cream man used to sell ecstasy as a side gig(He would hide the pills at the bottom of the ice cream cones, apparently), so I'm guessing it's a busy time for him during the lockdown. And really this is the sort of entrepreneurship Britain needs in this time of crisis.
 
JMack1234 said:
My local park is the busiest it's been since the lockdown came in. Loads of people having pic nics, sunbathing etc. I'd say it's at about the level it was the weekend before the lockdown came in.

Obviously that's anecdotal, but you accompany that with businesses beginning to re-open and the roads getting busier.

Lockdown beginning to fizzle out?
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I dont believe this lockdown will be good enough in it's current form. My local town seems busy still. It also has big signs up saying 'Check in on your 5 nearest neighbour's'
'Let's get Frome covered'
 
11101 said:
Norway is also very different in its population density and how they are spread out. The UK and Italy are fairly similar.
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I said so myself in my post, however, It stands to reason that how the people acts acc. to govt guidelines and rules, how widespread the disease was before shutdown etc has something to do with it. We tested much more and closed down earlier. Of course easier here, lower pop.density etc, still, the virus would have spread more here as well. But since you never really knew how many were infected early on, then some people infect those at home, at work etc and the virus circulates even during a lockdown. The percentage of infected at the time you lock down means a lot as to how long it takes to take down the numbers. Germany tested many early on, and propably closed down earlier relative to percantage of infected.
How early you shutdown means a lot I do think. However, no nation can cope with eternal shutdown so maybe it does not really matter, what matters is finding the golden line to balance on during this period until a poss. vaccine.
I really hope your numbers go down soon. They are really high.
 
One Night Only said:
Absolute shite, look a the "clap" in whatever bridge it was, look at the companies still working when told not to if it's not essential.

People are pretending to follow guidelines but they're not, I've seen loads preach in Facebook, but then they're at the shops 3-4 times a week? Or they've nipped to see their mam?

It's a smokescreen from people, telling social media what they want them to.

A Chinese takeaway opened here last night I think it was, queues for miles, no social distancing.

If you are the type sticking to the guidelines perfectly, then your circle of friends / associates are probably from the same type of cloth and do the same so that's what you see.

Look at a different demographic to yourself and see what is happening, young people (16-30) who have the jobless, drug using, drinking lifestyle. They haven't stopped point blank.

I know "sensible" people who think a shop at b and m for new curtains is essential.

Maybe I went OTT saying general public are asshats, but there are enough asshats to destroy it, the busy bodies reporting people are also breaking the rules cos they're constantly out for any excuse to catch other people. I know dogs that haven't been walked for years suddenly getting dragged about by owners, friends, family, just so they have an extra excuse to go out. Now the police aren't that arsed, the dog paths are just about empty as they were before lockdown.
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Brilliant.

A video of some wankers on a bridge circulated on Twitter. A Chinese restaurant opening (which is within the guidelines) near you. Companies that you know are working in spite of the circumstances - haven’t you wondered why that might actually be?

The demographic assumption is interesting; I’m 27 next month. What you say doesn’t ring true to me. I run and cycle regularly and my anecdotal opinion is that the vast majority of people I see out and about are older. Little Doris taking a doozy to the SPAR for her Daily Mirror. Lots of them. But I’m not going to tar every Little Doris with the same brush as my perception might be totally different to yours, or anyone else’s.

I’m looking at the hard numbers: public transport levels, road usage, school numbers etc. The public has overwhelmingly complied with the guidance and I don’t think that is up for debate. Yes, there are people who haven’t but be rational about it.

Compliance is going to drop, however. Primarily because some people are starting to feel the financial burn. They need to return to work and they will do so if and when the guidance allows them to.
 
Anyone work in a supermarket? I can't understand why they've stopped the 24 hour thing. At first I thought it was to stock up at night due to selling out of allsorts.

Now their isn't really panic buying, I thought 24 hours would be better for the flow rate going through the shops?

Or is it still a case of stock up during closing hours to keep stockers away from public during it all? Keeping shifts apart, only risking half their staff at a time?
 
sullydnl said:
Tbf according to Chris Whitty the UK's R(0) number is somewhere between 0.5 and 1. If so then a lot of people have definitely been abiding by lockdown properly.

Immediately blaming the UK public seems strange to me. Like all other publics, they have to be managed through a crisis like this. If that doesn't happen (or indeed even if there are bad outcomes despite that happening) then I would be inclined to look at the government's actions, timing and messaging first and ask if that's where the fault lies.
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Where I live people have been pretty well behaved. Most have only gone out when allowed.
 
One Night Only said:
Think it might have something to do with not being here legally? Cant claim furlough if they're not in the system. Also cash in hand jobs a lot of them will work too I'd expect even if here legally. So no paper trail for them to claim anything, they'll need to work to survive, at the same time, if they aren't here legally it really should be they're sent where ever their legal residence is?
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I think that's a factor definitely. Even those here legally will in many cases have been in jobs where furlough wont be much help. It doesn't explain wandering around the streets in large groups or having your mates round every evening though. There's also a clear lack of respect for the system there...all it's really doing is giving the Farage mob some actual ammunition.

I'm firmly on the other side of the fence but it's ahrd to find a defence for being in the middle of a public health related lockdown, and seeing 50+ eastern Europeans just willfully ignoring it every time I go for a run, and maybe 5-10 British people doing the same...and they tend to be the ones who I'm not even sure if they are British as it'll be a woman with her kids rather than 10+ people shouting loudly to each other in a group, directly in my fecking way.
 
One Night Only said:
Anyone work in a supermarket? I can't understand why they've stopped the 24 hour thing. At first I thought it was to stock up at night due to selling out of allsorts.

Now their isn't really panic buying, I thought 24 hours would be better for the flow rate going through the shops?

Or is it still a case of stock up during closing hours to keep stockers away from public during it all? Keeping shifts apart, only risking half their staff at a time?
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That's what I thought as well. You can get most stuff now, paracetamol is still in short supply, but the thing I really want is flour etc to bake, so does every household in the country apparently.
 
Balljy said:
If that's not essential, nothing is.
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Silva said:
ours has been coming every 2 days for a fortnight now, essential my arse
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It annoys me how many people still don't understand the rules in the UK. Going to work (where you can't work from home) is, in itself, regarded as essential - it doesn't matter what the work entails. I don't think that Ice Cream men (and women) can work from home!
 
Kag said:
Brilliant.

A video of some wankers on a bridge circulated on Twitter. A Chinese restaurant opening (which is within the guidelines) near you. Companies that you know are working in spite of the circumstances - haven’t you wondered why that might actually be?

The demographic assumption is interesting; I’m 27 next month. What you say doesn’t ring true to me. I run and cycle regularly and my anecdotal opinion is that the vast majority of people I see out and about are older. Little Doris taking a doozy to the SPAR for her Daily Mirror. Lots of them. But I’m not going to tar every Little Doris with the same brush as my perception might be totally different to yours, or anyone else’s.

I’m looking at the hard numbers: public transport levels, road usage, school numbers etc. The public has overwhelmingly complied with the guidance and I don’t think that is up for debate. Yes, there are people who haven’t but be rational about it.

Compliance is going to drop, however. Primarily because some people are starting to feel the financial burn. They need to return to work and they will do so I and when the guidance allows them to.
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I understand what you're saying, but in regards to school numbers, schools are only accepting kids with key worker families or special needs so bound to drop, it's not actually by choice. Public transport is a decent shout, alot due to working from home and a lack of tourism.
 
Well we’ve just had a fecking ice cream van pull up on our street.

No contactless payment, no distancing, nothing!

Joke of a ‘lockdown’!
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
It annoys me how many people still don't understand the rules in the UK. Going to work (where you can't work from home) is, in itself, regarded as essential - it doesn't matter what the work entails. I don't think that Ice Cream men (and women) can work from home!
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Exactly.
Unless we see marked improvement in figures by June 1st and lockdown is eased we're possibly going to see anarchy. The rent and mortgage freezes end in June. Good luck 'forcing' people to stay home when the alternative is homelessness. I don't think anyone needs to break down what people will do if the safety of their children is on the line, the virus will come a STRONG second to homelessness in terms of risks people are willing to take.
 
I've just been reading into Sweden's case. I notice they have a 69% death rate in their closed cases vs an average of 20%.

Is this because they are only testing those who clearly have coronavirus? Or because they include nursing home deaths? Or some other reason?
 
Just read that Solomon Samba, Montpellier player in Ligue 1 in France, and 23 years old, is in induced coma due to covid-19. So strange how some really fit young people get really sick from this.
 
One Night Only said:
I'm not a fan of lockdown, but my point is if everyone could have just stuck to it for a few weeks, and done what the guidance said, we wouldn't be in a forever loop of lockdown which from the stats is looking likely for the foreseeable.
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Your point is nonsensical, what are you trying to imply? That the virus would be gone if everyone just followed the guidelines?
 
Cardboard elk said:
Just read that Solomon Samba, Montpellier player in Ligue 1 in France, and 23 years old, is in induced coma due to covid-19. So strange how some really fit young people get really sick from this.
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It's no different from a very healthy person dying during a marathon though.its a freak occurrence, some people have hidden defects
 
noodlehair said:
There's no point relying on the information from Wuhan as nothing about any of what China have reported tallies up with what's going on anywhere else...and you can't "bolt people in their homes" as you'll kill 10x more than the virus ever will.

The problem here has been a lack of any kind of planning at all. We implemented a plan based on nothing more than a flimsy piece of science estimating how the virus spreads, and at a point where we had no idea at all how many people already had it, so even that piece of science was missing half the equation.

We have a random lunatic running the government using another random lunatic as a puppet. Our "Chief Medical Officer" has offered nothing approaching any kind of scientific insight. He is the same man who argued the best way to combat ebola was to "encourage" people who have it to go and die together in death camps (there's even a link to a paper he literally wrote arguing this on his Wikipedia page). Sweden, Germany etc. were putting scientists in charge and listening to experts while we were relying on a bunch of chancers who more resemble a group of Apprentice contestants fumbling around trying to pretend they aren't just half brained car salesmen. Other countries were making plans while these idiots were still concerning themselves with championing Brexit and child like dramatic attention seeking. That is why we are in this position

Other factors to consider:
- There have been over 5,000 "additional" deaths in the first 2 weeks in April, which can't be linked to corona virus...the most likely contributing factor to these deaths is the "relaxed" lockdown measures, as you call them. Implementing more strict measures with a health and welfare system that the government has purposely run down has the very realistic risk of these deaths OVERTAKING the number dying from corona virus...and at that point you can bet the media will start taking notice rather than just ignoring it, and then we'll have chaos.
- A few people sunbathing in a park actually has very little impact on how much the virus spreads. Shops and supermarkets have a much bigger impact and unfortunately people need to buy food and stuff in order to not die. Another thing having a very big impact is the government not supplying PPE equipment to medical staff who they are LEGEALLY REQUIRED to provide it to.
- The whole plan has never been about preventing anyone from dying or even particularly minimising it. We waited far too long for that. It's been about allowing the NHS to cope with the inevitable mess, and it somehow seems to have worked so far. We'll be going past the total number dead in Italy soon enough so it's pointless worrying about that. It doesn't account for differences in recording numbers or population levels. I've seen credible reports suggesting the number dead in Italy is actually up to three times that they've reported, because they simply weren't able to keep up or find room for everyone in a hospital. That has not happened here and we should actually be quite grateful for that I think. Especially considering what a poor job our government has made of it. People in the actual healthcare sector and those that have helped provide extra equipment and facilities have done a very good job.

Regardless I suspect the numbers are going to reach a point where Cummings and his gang of lunatics aren't really going to have anything to hide behind. Blame the public all you want but if the public aren't listening it's because they don't trust the people in charge.
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Another consequence of school closures which I heard on the radio today is that vulnerable children are trapped as schools are generally the body which reports suspected neglect and abuse to social services. The consequences of lockdown are vast and serious.

I think society is starting to move out of a lockdown mentality. A lot of the borderline essential services businesses that chose to shut out of choice are getting ready to open again.

I had to be on the road to do a few things for work yesterday and saw one group of 20 lads aged 14-16 walking down the street. It was the first time I’d seen such a blatant breach of the rules. People on my street have been breaking the rules, having cups of tea in their gardens with visitors and so on all through the lockdown. I have too to some extent but I’ve had to do stuff for work and have been in more shops than I should when out. By and large movement has decreased a massive amount but most are taking liberties here and there from my own anecdotal experience.
 
Kopral Jono said:
Why does the comment section on YouTube attract the worst kind of idiots? Right now I'm watching a video on corona vaccine development -- it's astonishing the sheer amount of anti-vax tripe being posted and the number of likes these posts get.
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Get a browser extension that removes comments from all websites.

Whitelist any sites that have value in comments (I don’t have any sites whitelisted)
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It's no different from a very healthy person dying during a marathon though.its a freak occurrence, some people have hidden defects
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Cardboard elk said:
You do not know if he had any hidden defects so that is pure speculation.
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I read that the thinking was that such cases were being caused by a very strong immune system going into overdrive.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Exactly.
Unless we see marked improvement in figures by June 1st and lockdown is eased we're possibly going to see anarchy. The rent and mortgage freezes end in June. Good luck 'forcing' people to stay home when the alternative is homelessness. I don't think anyone needs to break down what people will do if the safety of their children is on the line, the virus will come a STRONG second to homelessness in terms of risks people are willing to take.
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Rent and mortgage freezes would no doubt be extended in that scenario.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I read that the thinking was that such cases were being caused by a very strong immune system going into overdrive.
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Yes, also many other theories, I did a quick search on this now, and found these two articles, where genes are one of the things they look at, also the immune system as you mention :

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/how-sick-will-coronavirus-make-you-answer-may-be-your-genes
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-are-some-young-healthy-people-getting-severe-covid-19/

Anyway, it seems indications will take months to find, and facts regarding this topic will take years of study.
 
noodlehair said:
What is needed is better research and testing rather than childish blame games where the person being blamed is "the general public"...basically saying it's people's fault for existing. If that's the case we might as well have no lockdown measures and carry on as normal.
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That's where I'm at, as well. I'm not seeing this mass groups of idiots breaking the social distancing guidelines. If anything, I'm conscious that a large number of older people and people with other health conditions (but not in the government notified "highest risk" group) - have decided the "don't leave the house for 12 weeks" guidance applies to them as well.

What I'm also personally aware of is the impact on my family and friends. Two of whom died late March/early April - pre lockdown infections.

But two have died this week - in both cases they were getting treatment (one as a cancer outpatient, the other admitted after a stroke). In both cases they almost certainly picked up the virus at the hospital - as they really hadn't been anywhere or seen anyone from outside the household except in hospital.

As I'm an optimist I actually hope that means we'll see the numbers decline soon - as staff recover and become (hopefully) immune. And of course as PPE and procedures catch up with the challenge of how to support people who need to go to hospital with a serious condition, but who are now immensely vulnerable to an even quicker killer.
 
The longer you wait to implement a 'lockdown' the longer it will take for the daily deaths to come down to that lower level. The UK waited until the last moment possible and now will have to pay for it, by being locked down for longer if it wants to get those daily deaths down to the 2-300s.
 
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