SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Heardy]

It comes across as highly entitled when you whinge about the specific problems your age bracket may face at a time when the entire globe is being decimated.

Edit: You are also making sweeping generalisations about other age brackets, assuming you know their pressures and backstories.

I’m really not. I worry for all ages, we all have different pressures and are all valid!!

I just find a lot of people dismissive of the youth who are whinging and moaning!! I am not saying that I at 34 years old have it worse! But others of a similar age who have expressed angst have been shot down by those that are older, worrying about retirement / their kids futures.

We’re all facing a bleak future but to call younger posters out for whinging / being entitled when at best they’ve made blanket statements like the youth have been shafted (not more shafted) is harsh.

 

[Volumiza]

I’m the same age as you and going through similar stresses to you. That said, even before this crisis I felt thankful that I spent my 20s and 30s without any of the existential angst that the younger generation have been going through over the last decade. And now this.

The 90s was a phenomenal decade to be young, so we definitely lucked out with the timing of our birth. Trying to get your career started and enjoy your life while still young and relatively responsibility free during two deep recessions, one after the other, has to be pretty grim.

I agree. 100%.

But whatever generation you are you have to make the best of what time you are given otherwise you’re just spending your life wallowing.

As for the 90’s. Instead of dicking around reliving the 70’s and 80’s, bring back the 90’s, Rave culture and high quality E and most problems would be solved ...

 

[Volumiza]

So you agree that the young are fecked then as you’re worrying for your children. But the youth can’t say that?!

Firstly I’m not saying anyone is fecked. That’s insinuating there is no future at all for anyone which is bollocks.

And I’m not saying youth can’t be concerned for their future. I just took umbrage with a post a while back suggesting youth and the young we’re disproportionately screwed. It is just wrong to make comparisons of ‘screwedness’ while the world is going through this.

 

[Volumiza]

You can feck off mate, your problems don’t count

 

[Wibble]

I agree with this, just weird that older posters said that the young had no right to say that they were forging careers in context of two utter shite economic recessions.

Those older don’t appear to empathise with the youth that are shit scared for their prospects of never getting on the property ladder, or perhaps just have got on the ladder and face a drop of 30% in property prices.

People are poor at empathising when stressed

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It's how they said it that's infuriating. Saying that you're sorry people feel that they can't get PPE makes no sense. Getting hold of stuff is an action, it's not like saying "I'm sorry you feel angry". PPE is a tangible thing - you can either get it or you can't.

What they're doing is refusing to say "I'm sorry you can't get PPE, we know there's not enough, we're trying to get more of it ASAP". They won't say that because it means someone in the line of command has failed at the getting of it, for whatever reason.

It’s never valuable to apologise for how someone else feels to be honest.

“I can see that you’re angry”
“I understand why you’re angry”

There’s empathy there. Apologising for how someone has processed events is condescending as all hell. It suggests irrationality and wrongness.

“I’m sorry for your emotions” is a hidey hole for the cowardly. Front up. If someone is angry about how you’ve acted, tell them you understand. Explain why you acted how you did. People don’t need to agree. If you can’t stand behind your actions, don’t push the blame to the recipient of your mistake.

 

[Volumiza]

We’re all facing a bleak future

Are we though? Difficult at present sure and certainly an uncertain future but what’s to say what’s waiting for us isn’t a bit of an existential reset? A much needed one? Maybe a different future but we don’t know if it’s bleak yet.

 

[11101]

Where do you possibly get the impression that all older people are financially secure? A huge number are not homeowners. They have no personal pension, they're looking forward to the luxury of the state pension to retire on. A lot aren't car owners. They've worked in what are now called minimum wage jobs all their lives, in and out of work for a hundred reasons, they've struggled to raise children through it all. No savings whatsoever. Maybe now in their fifties and hoping finally to have a few years to save up for the time when they won't be earning anything at all, or they were.

There are exceptions to every rule.

Doesn't change the fact that somebody now at 60+ had the opportunity to buy a house at 2-4x annual salary.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree. 100%.

But whatever generation you are you have to make the best of what time you are given otherwise you’re just spending your life wallowing.

As for the 90’s. Instead of dicking around reliving the 70’s and 80’s, bring back the 90’s, Rave culture and high quality E and most problems would be solved ...

As someone (no idea who) once said, the 90s were the 60s with balls. Decades like that come around very very rarely. So grateful to have been at the right age to enjoy it. Obviously helped by the absence of smartphones and never needing to worry about sloppy behaviour being filmed and shared online!

 

[TMDaines]

The “flattening of the curve” was less about number of deaths and more number of (severe) cases, in order to ensure that that figure did not breach care capacity. The bargain for “flattening the curve” was always that we may have more cases in total even and that they are spread out over a longer period of time. We’re only in April FFS.

This guy seems to think flattening the curve means producing mountain ranges, which isn’t the case. You’re literally trying to have a much longer, but far less acute peak.

 

[Heardy]

Are we though? Difficult at present sure and certainly an uncertain future but what’s to say what’s waiting for us isn’t a bit of an existential reset? A much needed one? Maybe a different future but we don’t know if it’s bleak yet.

fecking semantics on wording.

Five or so posts up, Pogue posted the following to which you “100% agreed with”

“Trying to get your career started and enjoy your life while still young and relatively responsibility free during two deep recessions, one after the other, has to be pretty grim”

Pretty grim / bleak future / fecked - the first two are pretty much the same!!

 

[711]

There are exceptions to every rule.

Exceptions would indicate one or two, I'm talking about many millions. You sound like you've been brought up in a bubble with a nice mummy and daddy who have good jobs, a good house and good pensions and imagine everyone of that age group must be like that. Maybe not, but for whatever reason you have a very limited understanding of the world. Go on a few long bus rides on your own, phone off, and look at people, a few long walks around the huge inner cities (careful now), the estates and the towns across Britain, see the older people who you think are all so well off, look at their homes, their shops, at them walking with their shopping and waiting at the bus stop. Look at their faces. And learn.

Or maybe all that is bollocks and you just naturally lack the ability to empathise, I don't know.

 

[Smores]

I’m really not. I worry for all ages, we all have different pressures and are all valid!!

I just find a lot of people dismissive of the youth who are whinging and moaning!! I am not saying that I at 34 years old have it worse! But others of a similar age who have expressed angst have been shot down by those that are older, worrying about retirement / their kids futures.

We’re all facing a bleak future but to call younger posters out for whinging / being entitled when at best they’ve made blanket statements like the youth have been shafted (not more shafted) is harsh.

You'll find the exact same older folk in here have always taken umbrage at any suggestion or facts stated related to younger generations having it hard. I'd wager you'll find it in at least 5 threads.

No point repeating it in here, save your time and effort. They know the facts and choose to ignore them.

 

[Heardy]

Firstly I’m not saying anyone is fecked. That’s insinuating there is no future at all for anyone which is bollocks.

And I’m not saying youth can’t be concerned for their future. I just took umbrage with a post a while back suggesting youth and the young we’re disproportionately screwed. It is just wrong to make comparisons of ‘screwedness’ while the world is going through this.

For what it’s worth i didn’t see a post saying the young were disproportionality screwed, just that the youth had been screwed by this crisis. Then people responded to say that the elderly who have disproportionality paid the ultimate price (which is true).

Just seemed that anyone of below 35 who was worried got jumped on for whinging and complaining - not necessarily by you btw.

We’ve all got problems whether that’s our own outlook, for our children, for our elderly parents. We’ve all got struggles and empathy is needed for everyone’s perspective when the world burns.

 

[11101]

Exceptions would indicate one or two, I'm talking about many millions. You sound like you've been brought up in a bubble with a nice mummy and daddy who have good jobs, a good house and good pensions and imagine everyone of that age group must be like that. Maybe not, but for whatever reason you have a very limited understanding of the world. Go on a few long bus rides on your own, phone off, and look at people, a few long walks around the huge inner cities (careful now), the estates and the towns across Britain, see the older people who you think are all so well off, look at their homes, their shops, at them walking with their shopping and waiting at the bus stop. Look at their faces. And learn.

Or maybe all that is bollocks and you just naturally lack the ability to empathise, I don't know.

Read my above edit. The 60+ age group had an opportunity to buy a house at 2-4x annual salary. Not all of them did or could, but the rule still stands. That generation are more financially secure than those entering the working world now are likely to be. Anybody looking to buy a house now needs to spend 7-8x salary.

 

[Heardy]

You'll find the exact same older folk in here have always taken umbrage at any suggestion or facts stated related to younger generations having it hard. I'd wager you'll find it in at least 5 threads.

No point repeating it in here, save your time and effort. They know the facts and choose to ignore them.

Yeah I’ve kind of said my bit in my last response.

It’s not all directed at @Volumiza who I’ve shared a back and forth with either.

Just weird for posters calling for people to appreciate other perspectives etc when calling out the young for whinging!

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Preach!

The young have been well and truly shafted this crisis.

How so?

If the poster speaks of people that have paid down debt, saved for a house, then in a year or two, many of them will be in the best position any generation has experienced since the Boomers. Cash rich, employed, surplus housing stock everywhere, banks competing for business.

It’s callous to reduce to those terms but the 5 year outlook for anyone with money in the bank is better than it was a year ago. There will be opportunity in the air.

People seem to forget that ‘Boomers’ refers to those who were born just after World War 2. For large swathes of that generation, life was really fcuking hard. Families decimated. Grandparents gone in many cases. Helpful Global economics and a long period of surety was no guarantee at the outset.

 

[Volumiza]

For what it’s worth i didn’t see a post saying the young were disproportionality screwed, just that the youth had been screwed by this crisis. Then people responded to say that the elderly who have disproportionality paid the ultimate price (which is true).

Just seemed that anyone of below 35 who was worried got jumped on for whinging and complaining - not necessarily by you btw.

We’ve all got problems whether that’s our own outlook, for our children, for our elderly parents. We’ve all got struggles and empathy is needed for everyone’s perspective when the world burns.

Dude, I haven’t disagreed with anything other than making comparisons of levels of suffering.

Everyone is, and will be, paying a price. I am of a view that we are all in this very much together.

Someone mentioned earlier they hope society learns from this. I hope for this too. Awful as this virus is and dreadful as the effects may well be there are huge lessons to be taken from how as a society we react.

Further divide and pull apart? Or the opposite?

 

[Penna]

Everyone is suffering now or will suffer in the future, one way or another. No-one can change their age, we are what we are. We're all in it together, folks.

 

[Jippy]

Sucks for them, but the millennials as a generation will suffer the aftereffects of this the most.

Shit certainly rolls downhill. My generation (I'm 44) missed out on final salary pensions and cheap housing, and those younger than fee have now got uni fees, even more indebted country etc...From my generation downwards, vast swathes of people, probably the majority, will never get to retire, so yeah the picture is pretty bleak all round.

 

[sullydnl]

For what it’s worth i didn’t see a post saying the young were disproportionality screwed, just that the youth had been screwed by this crisis. Then people responded to say that the elderly who have disproportionality paid the ultimate price (which is true).

Just seemed that anyone of below 35 who was worried got jumped on for whinging and complaining - not necessarily by you btw.

We’ve all got problems whether that’s our own outlook, for our children, for our elderly parents. We’ve all got struggles and empathy is needed for everyone’s perspective when the world burns.

Tbf I sort of said that.

Or rather I said that those in worse financial positions will tend to be disproportionately impacted more than those in strong financial positions. And if different age groups tend to be in better/worse financial positions than each other then by extension some age groups will tend to be more heavily impacted. The same applies to any other grouping of people who tend to be less well off than others. Someone mentioned BAME earlier, where the same may also apply.

I don't think that's in any way a controversial point. It's nice to say "we're all in this together" like everyone will be impacted to exactly the same extent but that's simply untrue. Everyone will be impacted but the vulnerable, the less well off, the less secure and those who already struggling will no doubt get the worst of it.

 

[Wumminator]

Everyone is suffering now or will suffer in the future, one way or another. No-one can change their age, we are what we are. We're all in it together, folks.

No one can change their age?

Why the feck did I buy a convertible and start offering the clearly uncomfortable barmaid a few free drinks after work if that is the case?!?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

The “flattening of the curve” was less about number of deaths and more number of (severe) cases, in order to ensure that that figure did not breach care capacity. The bargain for “flattening the curve” was always that we may have more cases in total even and that they are spread out over a longer period of time. We’re only in April FFS.

This guy seems to think flattening the curve means producing mountain ranges, which isn’t the case. You’re literally trying to have a much longer, but far less acute peak.

Don't know what he's on about. For weeks, the prediction curves I've seen were never similar ups to downs.

They all had a longer tail with a slower drop in daily cases/deaths than the rise. The exception was China but difficult to be confident on their stats.

 

[JPRouve]

I’m really not. I worry for all ages, we all have different pressures and are all valid!!

I just find a lot of people dismissive of the youth who are whinging and moaning!! I am not saying that I at 34 years old have it worse! But others of a similar age who have expressed angst have been shot down by those that are older, worrying about retirement / their kids futures.

We’re all facing a bleak future but to call younger posters out for whinging / being entitled when at best they’ve made blanket statements like the youth have been shafted (not more shafted) is harsh.

We are not worrying, for a large part we won't be able to retire.

 

[jojojo]

Isn't that a bit flippant? The 2008 recession hit harder and longer than any of the crises post-WWII in most of the world, and the initial signs suggest this crisis will have hit harder and quicker than anything in your lifetime. It might bounce back equally quickly, all we have are projections now, but what we know already sets this apart as something distinctive.

That's only one characteristic of a recession that you've looking at though. If you look at UK unemployment for example, you'll see a different one. Recession and a collapse in manufacturing and the wipe out of whole sectors of the economy.

The changes that followed, destabilised the entire employment market. Higher levels of underemployment - starting from more part-time jobs (and low paid "female" jobs) that steadily migrated into the zero hours and gig economy of today. As the unions were dismantled the constraints on bad employment practices were off.

The biggest difference was that a lot graduate and certain skilled/retrained jobs survived those 80s/90s slumps, and that inflation wiped out a lot of debt - particularly mortgage debt.

The optimist in me thinks we'll see corrections made to the tax system (NI on pensions, and other income like rent etc that should help people who actually go out to work). The pessimist thinks the Rees-Moggs will enjoy super returns on their new investments and we'll all have to pay for them.

 

[Volumiza]

Tbf I sort of said that.

So it’s your fault?

I get what you’re trying to say but I just don’t see how it is helpful creating potential divisions.

We are all in this together. Young will have to help old, old will no doubt help young and those in the middle, like me, are going to have to help both old and young ...

... hang on, feck you all, it’s going to hit my age group worst!

 

[Volumiza]

No one can change their age?

Why the feck did I buy a convertible and start offering the clearly uncomfortable barmaid a few free drinks after work if that is the case?!?

Can I have my leather trousers back now?

 

[golden_blunder]

They aren't mutually exclusive are they?

The elderly are vulnerable to succumbing to the virus.

The young are more vulnerable to the catastrophic economic consequences.

Why does it have to be exclusive to one or the other?

the young may lose jobs but the older may find their pensions or life savings wiped out if it’s based on investments

 

[golden_blunder]

Sucks for them, but the millennials as a generation will suffer the aftereffects of this the most.

For longer perhaps but it’s very dismissive of older folks who are going to be affected for the rest of their time. Businesses which may have been built for years, many will probably close, pensions and savings will be affected negatively.

ive seen this a few times now, I’m not sure why it’s suddenly a ronaldo v Messi type competition. Everyone is fecked, can’t we just agree that?

 

[Feed Me]

Shit certainly rolls downhill. My generation (I'm 44) missed out on final salary pensions and cheap housing, and those younger than fee have now got uni fees, even more indebted country etc...From my generation downwards, vast swathes of people, probably the majority, will never get to retire, so yeah the picture is pretty bleak all round.

Going to uni is a choice. Young people need to be more savvy about choosing to go down that route and saddling themselves with debt for a two bit degree.

 

[Feed Me]

For longer perhaps but it’s very dismissive of older folks who are going to be affected for the rest of their time. Businesses which may have been built for years, many will probably close, pensions and savings will be affected negatively.

ive seen this a few times now, I’m not sure why it’s suddenly a ronaldo v Messi type competition. Everyone is fecked, can’t we just agree that?

End of debate.

 

[golden_blunder]

I agree with this, just weird that older posters said that the young had no right to say that they were forging careers in context of two utter shite economic recessions.

Those older don’t appear to empathise with the youth that are shit scared for their prospects of never getting on the property ladder, or perhaps just have got on the ladder and face a drop of 30% in property prices.

that works both ways, I’ve seen posts where there’s not much empathy for older folks too. They are going to have a tough time too.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Lockdown in India extended to May 3rd.

 

[balaks]

Yeah this is going to impact on everybody in a shitty way. Older folk's pension's are being obliterated, middle age folk are losing jobs with little or no possibility of retraining and many still with hefty mortgages to pay, the younger folk are struggling to get a house and stable employment and many will have lost their jobs. It's a giant shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.

 

[golden_blunder]

That's only one characteristic of a recession that you've looking at though. If you look at UK unemployment for example, you'll see a different one. Recession and a collapse in manufacturing and the wipe out of whole sectors of the economy.

The changes that followed, destabilised the entire employment market. Higher levels of underemployment - starting from more part-time jobs (and low paid "female" jobs) that steadily migrated into the zero hours and gig economy of today. As the unions were dismantled the constraints on bad employment practices were off.

The biggest difference was that a lot graduate and certain skilled/retrained jobs survived those 80s/90s slumps, and that inflation wiped out a lot of debt - particularly mortgage debt.

The optimist in me thinks we'll see corrections made to the tax system (NI on pensions, and other income like rent etc that should help people who actually go out to work). The pessimist thinks the Rees-Moggs will enjoy super returns on their new investments and we'll all have to pay for them.

sadly we all know which scenario will play out in those 2 choices and I’ll detest JRM even more than I do now

 

[NinjaFletch]

For longer perhaps but it’s very dismissive of older folks who are going to be affected for the rest of their time. Businesses which may have been built for years, many will probably close, pensions and savings will be affected negatively.

ive seen this a few times now, I’m not sure why it’s suddenly a ronaldo v Messi type competition. Everyone is fecked, can’t we just agree that?

I don't see why we have to pretend like this disease is an equalitarian leveller when we know it isn't. Certain groups of people are going to be hit a lot harder than others, even if it ends up being net shit for everyone (although of course it won't be a small number of rich people will make absolute bank off of it).

I'm not going to make any claims as to who that will be (although we already know the BAME community has been hit particularly hard) and it might be that it's not the younger generation (time will tell), but it's at least worth a conversation as a country so we can see where help needs to be directed the most. I'd argue we have to see how it plays out first, but wailing about the possibility that other people might suffer more than him like Feed Me has been doing doesn't seem that helpful either.

 

[Volumiza]

It's a giant shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.

Wash your hands though first

 

[11101]

that works both ways, I’ve seen posts where there’s not much empathy for older folks too. They are going to have a tough time too.

The last few years have created deep divides between age groups in the UK. I'm sure we all see it within our own families. I know a lot of people who feel the previous generations screwed them in 2008 by loading up on cheap debt, which is fair, and i think the majority feel they were screwed by the elderly with Brexit. The virus is nobodies fault but it's not hard to see why there is discontent when the UK has had 3 major negative events in 10 years and 2 of them were directly caused by one or two generations.

 

[Ady87]

ONS figures are out and make for an interesting read. Suggests Care Home and Home deaths have been quite significant. Also suggests the total death figure and covid deaths as a proportion of total deaths are high.

 

[Feed Me]

I don't see why we have to pretend like this disease is an equalitarian leveller when we know it isn't. Certain groups of people are going to be hit a lot harder than others, even if it ends up being net shit for everyone (although of course it won't be a small number of rich people will make absolute bank off of it).

I'm not going to make any claims as to who that will be (although we already know the BAME community has been hit particularly hard) and it might be that it's not the younger generation (time will tell), but it's at least worth a conversation as a country so we can see where help needs to be directed the most. I'd argue we have to see how it plays out first, but wailing about the possibility that other people might suffer more than him like Feed Me has been doing doesn't seem that helpful either.

Firstly, I fall into the bracket that will supposedly be most disproportionately impacted. I just choose not to have a whinge about how hard done by I might be because I have enough self awareness to recognise that everyone will be negatively impacted, not just one small segment of society.

Secondly, it was me who made the point about BAME people being shafted. Meanwhile, I have also talked on this board about my disgust at how forgotten people like the homeless are treated. So I more than agree that we need to have a proper conversation about where the public purse needs to be spent to properly support the rebuild once we are past the worst of this crisis.

Please do some basic fact checking before you start dropping my name and talking shite in future.