Especially if they contain deaths outside of hospitals, as France does.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Especially if they contain deaths outside of hospitals, as France does.
Just wash your hands folks. It’s just another flu. Those were good times.
The worst take I’ve seen all year.
I saw this on Sky News this morning but haven’t really dug into it. Is the implication that care home deaths have been attributed to non-Covid-19 factors and therefore not been counted in the death toll?
Edit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823
Just from memory the worst years were 74/75, when unemployment went from zero in effect to couldn't get a job unless your relative already worked there.That's only one characteristic of a recession that you've looking at though. If you look at UK unemployment for example, you'll see a different one. Recession and a collapse in manufacturing and the wipe out of whole sectors of the economy.
The changes that followed, destabilised the entire employment market. Higher levels of underemployment - starting from more part-time jobs (and low paid "female" jobs) that steadily migrated into the zero hours and gig economy of today. As the unions were dismantled the constraints on bad employment practices were off.
The biggest difference was that a lot graduate and certain skilled/retrained jobs survived those 80s/90s slumps, and that inflation wiped out a lot of debt - particularly mortgage debt.
The optimist in me thinks we'll see corrections made to the tax system (NI on pensions, and other income like rent etc that should help people who actually go out to work). The pessimist thinks the Rees-Moggs will enjoy super returns on their new investments and we'll all have to pay for them.
I agree with you on taxes, particularly national insurance, which disguises who pays what tax in some ways. I would look at wealth taxes as well.
When all this is said and done and a solution has been found, I wonder if there will be a positive knock on with regards to the fight against other viral and bacterial infections as the world population becomes more educated on sanitation and gets into better habits with regards to washing their hands and the importance of WFH when you have an illness.
I know that not everyone will continue like this and a lot will fall back into old habits but I think there will definitely be a noticeable change.
I know that not everyone will continue like this and a lot will fall back into old habits but I think there will definitely be a noticeable change.
I really hope there is a serious discussion about UBI or something similar as a result of this. My dream is that after Corona, we realise how many jobs simply are no longer needed and we allow the elderly to retire earlier.
That would be lovely but sadly I think the opposite is likely and none of us will be retiring before we are 70.
You would hope that lessons will be learned but sadly we have heaps of examples of humanity failing to change its ways in the aftermath of disasters.
It goes without saying that personal hygiene should be a focus area, but that feels a little like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted.
Surely the biggest issue is ensuring a punitive crackdown on wet markets where this sort of virus is widely accepted to have emanated from?
I also hope there’s a remote working revolution which would have major benefits for the environment. We know it can work so there’s no excuses.
So 1/3 of NHS staff tested are COVID-19 positive. I'd like to know how many are asymptomatic.
Ideally, but on my walks around the neighbourhood during lockdown I've variously seen numerous people spitting on the road, sneezing without covering their nose/mouth and firing snot out of a nostril, so I wouldn't bank on it.
I’ve not left the house without hand sanitiser in my pocket in around 10 years because I knew how manky everyone’s (in general) hygiene was. Let’s hope this does change that aspect of life.
Yeah I appreciate that but on a macro level there's surely going to be an impact. I expect we're going to see a whole new pattern of behaviour around hygiene in shops, public transport, restaurants and offices. Especially with regards to people suffering with any sort of illness being told to WFH.
Aye, your posts have just been dripping with that over the past few pages when you've been slagging posters off left right and centre for daring to think they might not do well after this.
And, of course, you make that statement in a paragraph where what you have written equates to 'I will suffer worse than anyone and I'm putting on a stiff upper lip so I don't want to hear about anyone else's problems'. You, you have decided, are allowed to be a martyr about how bad things might get, and anyone that deigns to challenge your perceptions and perhaps suggest that things could be worse for other generations (and, hey, maybe they are wrong, time will tell) has been met with snark, accusations of entitlement, and general hostility by you. In fact, not only that but you've attempted to co-opt any idea that the younger generations might suffer by stating that would take some emotional toll on you so, really, that's your cross to bear too.
The irony of all ironies being that you've spent most of the morning whinging about how bad things are for your generation, but apparently not realising you've done that either.
Self aware indeed.
How many non Covid patients are being infected at this rate?
Experts in Poland saying now that we can semi-open in two weeks but it'd be only for select services and shops with additional restrictions. Bars and restaurants with limited capacity maybe in the Summer. Travel/movement restrictions, ban of mass gatherings including sports events and concerts and obligatory wearing of masks likely to remain for 2+ years until vaccine is found and proven to be efficient.
Agree with your points in general but from the perspective of pensions younger people will be hit harder on average potentially. Older people are more likely to have final salaries/defined benefit schemes, and also are more likely
To be invested in lifestyle funds which wouldn’t have felt the impact of the crash as much (this does of course depend on what you define as ‘older’)
To be fair to @Feed Me, he is a millenial and a massive whinger. Maybe he is using himself as an example which would be to some extent a sign of self awareness.
I haven’t slagged anyone off. That’s seemingly your domain. Go and look up the original post that sparked this all off. The poster has even since admitted that it smacked of a woe is me attitude. You’re really over analysing the whole thing too much when all I’ve said is that it’s imprudent to get into a dick measuring contest about which cross-section of society is most impacted when a) we don’t know how things will pan out and b) every person will have hardships to endure. I’m going for a walk, it’s not healthy to sit here ranting on. Apologies if I offended you in any way.
To be fair to @Feed Me, he is a millenial and a massive whinger. Maybe he is using himself as an example which would be to some extent a sign of self awareness.
I’ve got no football to moan about now
For the record, this is the post I originally reacted to. Not meaning to pick on the poster specifically, but it is a bit ‘woe is me’.
One third of over 50s have no personal pension or savings whatsoever. Many of those that do will have relatively small amounts.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...13/One-third-of-over-50s-have-no-pension.html
Sounds about right. It's what I expect from most of Europe, the UK of course being behind the curve a bit due to the dilly-dallying bullshit.
How does 'obligatory wearing of masks' work in restaurants and bars, though? And the workplace, where conversations are necessary (lectures as well). Just a thought.
Agree with this. I work in professional services and I can’t see how people will justify travelling to London for a meeting via train when you can do it so easily remotely!
I agree with that in many ways, but it will need a big attitude shift from employers and society more broadly towards accepting apprenticeships and the like as equivalents.
I'm sat here now sifting through applications for a project on highlighting up and coming younger talent in financial services and of the 30 selected, only two have not had a university education. These individuals are still seen as massive outliers, despite going on to pick up stacks of vocational qualifications along the way.
And how would their position have been affected more so than younger pension savers?
They are also much more likely to lose everything (they die) so I guess that balances it out a bit. Some of the richer older folk will be fine but like everything in life they are the minority and many older people have little to no savings and a meagre pension.
2+ years. Where did that come from. Hell, why not 30?
Most predictions seem to be that it will be 12-18 months until a vaccine is approved and some are claiming as early as September, with potential mass distribution near the end of the year. 2+ I never heard before.
Also, is a partial lockdown that long economically viable?
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They're not really equivalent though. There's a problem with even the better apprenticeship programs (talking about it as an engineer myself) - you basically learn to work in a way that specific business wants you to work. From a young age, you're taught to do things one way only. That's fine, if you're going to stay there for the rest of your life but you're not as useful once you leave that environment.
my pension has taken an absolute battering but I’m 34 so theory is I’m not able/planning to cash it on for 25 - 30 years so it has time to rebuild.
If someone at say 59 has taken a similar percentage hit on their fund it will have lost way more in absolute terms and they have little/no time to rebuild, so quality of retirement or indeed ability to retire is adversely affected.
Not sure that's how it comes across, but each to their own.
I think we all have to acknowledge that everyone struggles differently and some people are very worried about the future and will use this thread to vent. I'm just not sure dog pilling those posters and telling them that it's entitled to dare to think about themselves or their peers is really helping anyone. It just comes across as dismissive.
But agreed that it's not healthy to continue this on, enjoy your walk!
I'd say masks only for public transport.
Bars can work around it by limiting the number of people inside - same for restaurants.
It will be probably the quickest vaccine in history if we manage to get one ready for mass use in 18 months. Most vaccines take 6-9 years to develop. We could be looking at 2-3 years realistically though hoping for much less than that of course but 18 months is likely best case scenario.
What we really need right now are some breakthroughs in effective treatments - the vaccine will come eventually but it's on down the line.
This is partially true, but like I said, many funds for people approaching retirement are invested on a ‘lifestyle’ basis, which means the risk profile is decreased gradually as you approach retirement (which is why proportionately, younger peoples funds have been more adversely affected, which was part of the initial point I made). I work in pension income brokering and can only go off what I’ve seen of late. A few of our clients have lost a lot of money, but many haven’t felt the hit nearly as much as you might think.
How your fund rebuilds is another story and I hope you’re right and it builds back up nicely. On a side note, the older generation as a minimum have more certainty regarding their state pensions, which is something the younger generation do not, and this won’t have been helped by what is happening now.
Why stop there? Factory farming in America has just as many egregious practices, which likely led to the H1N1 epidemic in 2009. They didn't learn their lessons and neither will the CCP.
What needs to happen is a fundamental rethink on the current political and socio-economic system. When we let the market dictate and decide on the allocation of resources we see shit like this occurring. It's no coincidence that the last 30-40 years have been amongst the most financially turbulent outside of wartime.
Something has to change, unfortunately there are too many vested interests which preclude such a change from occurring.
This. If we could find some drugs that could treat those who are actually infected, that could tide us over until the vaccine.
Just read in the independent that Ireland expects restrictions until the vaccine is found. That is going to impact the economic system hugely.
This.
Is there a cruise ship itinerary review like we can find for airplanes? Marella Explorer is currently heading for France, after passing close to Azores with already 3 deaths on board and hundreds of infected.
When has this cruiseship originally left port? I presume they left from Europe, were denied anchoring in the US, and had to turn back. But when the feck did they originally started the trip? How long have they been at sea? Or have they been "abandoned" in the sea for over a month?
Someone help me understand this. I found a site called "cruise mapper" which shows its position and planned future trips, but I would like to know it's recent itinerary.
When has this cruiseship originally left port? I presume they left from Europe, were denied anchoring in the US, and had to turn back. But when the feck did they originally started the trip? How long have they been at sea? Or have they been "abandoned" in the sea for over a month?
Someone help me understand this. I found a site called "cruise mapper" which shows its position and planned future trips, but I would like to know it's recent itinerary.
Probably going to make tables far apart and you will have to wear them when you are not eating, or something. You can speak with a mask on though it obviously sounds a bit silly.