SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Whistleblowers Silenced By China Could Have Stopped Global Coronavirus Spread!

Mid-November in Wuhan, China, and cases of a strange new flu start surfacing. In a sprawling city of 11 million people, the coronavirus, our invisible brutal enemy was born - festering at least a month and a half before the world was told.In January President Xi Jinping made a decision that would ultimately condemn the world: allowing 5 million people to leave the epicentre of the virus without being screened.
Posted By Joe

https://m.worldstarhiphop.com/apple/video.php?v=wshh6ARp129Qt2cKgXb8
 
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US intelligence could well have known IF China knew that early, and they were intercepting information direct from them.

As if, they'd go ballistic if they have that in cold hard proof.

Let's pretend they do intercept a cold hard evidence straight from president Xi himself, what did they do about it? Even when it's alreayd proven in january that it's the real deal? Nothing.

Things just don't add up. You can't claim you heard about it in November, accuse cover up, and fall to the same virus all over again. If this is indeed true US would have locked down ports as early as December, they'd have put more pressure on China based on their findings. This is serious issue if true (which I doubt it is), you can't say you know China is behind all this since November and kept quiet about it. You're at best an accompli
 
The above is from the ABC links. So they're saying they can see from satellite that there's a virus outbreak, yet there's tourist people all over Wuhan didn't see anything. How does that makes sense? if we're talking about nuclear facilities then satellite images make sense, but satellite images long even before first casualty of a virus??? seriously???

To come up with a conclusion that there's a virus outbreak from satellite images as early as November would mean they see total chaos, people start dying on the street, ambulance everywhere, things that local TV could easily pick up as well. They should just release the footage if there is.
A large number of infections, followed by an increase in crematoriums could apply that a disease is spreading.

Oh, and they spy on each other. No doubt there are high officials on China who are spying for the US (and the other way around). Easier to say that, then hey we spied on you.

If the US knew it on November, then China likely knew it way before that. And they decided to tell the world in 31st of December when the situation had gone out of control. For all we know, when they locked Wuhan there could have been 4000, 40000 or 400000 people infected instead of 400. I mean, would anyone be surprised if there was a way larger number of infected/dead people than China admitted?
 
A large number of infections, followed by an increase in crematoriums could apply that a disease is spreading.

Oh, and they spy on each other. No doubt there are high officials on China who are spying for the US (and the other way around). Easier to say that, then hey we spied on you.

If the US knew it on November, then China likely knew it way before that. And they decided to tell the world in 31st of December when the situation had gone out of control. For all we know, when they locked Wuhan there could have been 4000, 40000 or 400000 people infected instead of 400. I mean, would anyone be surprised if there was a way larger number of infected/dead people than China admitted?

yes, but if you can see that from the satelite and come up with such a grim conclusion you can see that with your own eye. Things like that can't be hidden.

Wuhan isn't exactly Area 51. Various people there. If the US seen it on the satellite, they'll just ask their ground reporter to film it with smartphone. Not exactly rocket science. There are reporters in Wuhan from all over the world. They can't see shit but a US satellite can?

How in the world only US satellite can see shits happening at Wuhan, yet real people living there can't see nothing alarming in November?

I don't think the world would care about who's spying who if indeed one party has a cold hard evidence about something this catastrophically big. It's more like the US is trying what they do best, lying.
 
yes, but if you can see that from the satelite and come up with such a grim conclusion you can see that with your own eye. Things like that can't be hidden.

Wuhan isn't exactly Area 51. Various people there.
Having suspicions that something bad is happening, and having confirmation that something bad is happening are very different things.

Oh, and I never put in doubt that the US response to the crisis was totally inadequate.
 
UAE is another good one, whom have been doing near as much testings per capita as Iceland, and much more in total. In fact, they have tested more people than the UK and France combined.

So far, they have 12 deaths from 2659 cases, with a ratio of 0.45% (in total around 600k testings, with around 60k testings per 1 million people).

On the other side, Luxembourg has a much worse ratio (they have the third-highest testing per capita) at around 1.5%.

For me, Singapore is the most interesting one. They have done a decent number of tests, a bit like Germany, Italy or Israel. However, unlike those countries, their death rate is much lower, at only 0.37%. And they have been hit earlier, so you would expect that they don't have too many critical cases which will increase the ratio.

I know feck all about these things, but it would be interesting to see some studies that try to do a comparison between different strains versions of the virus (of course, adjusted to the population and number of testing). Could it be that the Asian strains are less lethal than the European ones?
Not sure if I would trust Singapore's number regarding with the deaths.
 
Not sure if I would trust Singapore's number regarding with the deaths.
Why? I know that they are not a shining democracy, but I thought that the government has a good trust on people and the other way around.
 
There's been some misunderstanding here. I'm asking does this statement fit reality:


Did the common sense of the populace lead to huge reductions in business which, supported by policies such as 80% furlough payments, lead to the majority of businesses temporarily shutting down of their own volition? It's not a hypothetical.

The 80% furlough scheme did not help business, it helped their staff; if there was a similar scheme for business it would of course have helped. The shutting down of businesses occured merely days after everyone was told social distancing would stem the tide. Again this was maybe a fortnight after Boris was shaking hands will everyone he met.

Therefore there's no data in terms of schemes that helped businesses as there currently are none, there's very little data in terms of how businesses would react if they hadn't been forced to close down prior to knowing the seriousness of the UK infection as days before the shutdown we were told to merely social distance and the second government properly articulated the seriousness was the day they closed businesses.

What we do know is how businesses that haven't been forced to close have reacted and my view is private industry have reacted phenomenally. Supermarkets have enforced social distancing, they've given time slots to NHS workers, they're prioritised deliveries for the vunerable and housebound. Pharmacies have done likewise as have others. The minority of construction sites that have stayed open have enforced similar measures (the majority that couldn't enforce them closed of their own volition and are only opening once they can ensure site safety). These businesses have received no compensation for their increased operational costs but have still been great on the whole. I see no reason why the businesses that were forced to close wouldn't have reacted in a similar fashion to those who have been given the opportunity to stay open; especially if they had the support to finance these operational costs.

The industries that have reacted poorly are arguably the public sector ones that are open and have been supported by government. The NHS have been awful in distributing PPE, public transport have crammed people onto busses and tubes; reducing services rather than expanding them.

So again I'd say the evidence we have shows private industry who've been allowed to operate have performed phenomenally well and I therefore see no reason why businesses that were forced to close wouldn't have done likewise.

I imagine if restaurants remained open we'd have seen most closing but some delivering meals to the vunerable at reduced or no cost; whilst aggressively enforcing the same measures as supermarkets and pharmacies. I imagine if clothing companies had allowed to remain open most would have closed but some would have enforced social distancing and put a portion of their resources to manufacturing PPE to be distributed at a subsidised cost.

Hell I imagine if testing were privately manufactured (ala US and Germany) and available many businesses would be purchasing thousands of tests and being a key part of the countrywide testing effort, providing both employee and customer peace of mind.

You say look at the evidence... Which businesses who could have exploited their ability to stay open have done so without regard for public health?
 
Why? I know that they are not a shining democracy, but I thought that the government has a good trust on people and the other way around.
Can't really say why but lots of my friends live there for decades and what they usually say is they are the last to know if some shit happens there.

I have lived there for a few months and can't really say the government trust their people at all.

Just a feeling that it is hard to believe anything that is coming out of Asian countries. And, I am an Asian and lived under extreme dictatorship for 18 years.

So, maybe I am a bit paranoid.
 
Why the UK and France are doing so few testings? Are they stupid or only negligent?

For comparison, Canada with less than half of their population has done quite more testings, while Norway has done half as many testings (but it has 5 million, instead of 65 million people).

It is totally inexcusable and a big failure of France/UK governments.

Lack of key ingredients needed to produce the test kits due to surging world demand.
 
Can't really say why but lots of my friends live there for decades and what they usually say is they are the last to know if some shit happens there.

I have lived there for a few months and can't really say the government trust their people at all.

Just a feeling that it is hard to believe anything that is coming out of Asian countries. And, I am an Asian and lived under extreme dictatorship for 18 years.

So, maybe I am a bit paranoid.


If you cant believe a singaporean government the you are paranoid. They're the most clean government in the world.
 
Whistleblowers Silenced By China Could Have Stopped Global Coronavirus Spread!
Uploaded April 04, 2020

Mid-November in Wuhan, China, and cases of a strange new flu start surfacing. In a sprawling city of 11 million people, the coronavirus, our invisible brutal enemy was born - festering at least a month and a half before the world was told.

In January President Xi Jinping made a decision that would ultimately condemn the world: allowing 5 million people to leave the epicentre of the virus without being screened.
Posted By Joe

https://m.worldstarhiphop.com/apple/video.php?v=wshh6ARp129Qt2cKgXb8

World star hip hop. Seems legit
 
More on that German study. Seems they sampled 70 infected households, they found traces but were not able to reproduce a living virus and conclude most people aren't infected via surfaces. More testing is going ahead but they don't expect to see any difference.

https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundhe...me-infektionsschutz-massnahmen-studie/seite-2

Perhaps a German speaker can translate better.

NHS are still going on about washing hands on their twitter but there's nothing about how this can spread in the confines of a home, car bus or shop. Imagine a communal area in an old peoples home with them talking coughing together. Keeping 1-2 metres apart isn't going to help and you can be sure families and other peoples close friends are still nattering away over coffee in a tiny living room.
 
The 80% furlough scheme did not help business, it helped their staff; if there was a similar scheme for business it would of course have helped. The shutting down of businesses occured merely days after everyone was told social distancing would stem the tide. Again this was maybe a fortnight after Boris was shaking hands will everyone he met.

Therefore there's no data in terms of schemes that helped businesses as there currently are none, there's very little data in terms of how businesses would react if they hadn't been forced to close down prior to knowing the seriousness of the UK infection as days before the shutdown we were told to merely social distance and the second government properly articulated the seriousness was the day they closed businesses.

What we do know is how businesses that haven't been forced to close have reacted and my view is private industry have reacted phenomenally. Supermarkets have enforced social distancing, they've given time slots to NHS workers, they're prioritised deliveries for the vunerable and housebound. Pharmacies have done likewise as have others. The minority of construction sites that have stayed open have enforced similar measures (the majority that couldn't enforce them closed of their own volition and are only opening once they can ensure site safety). These businesses have received no compensation for their increased operational costs but have still been great on the whole. I see no reason why the businesses that were forced to close wouldn't have reacted in a similar fashion to those who have been given the opportunity to stay open; especially if they had the support to finance these operational costs.

The industries that have reacted poorly are arguably the public sector ones that are open and have been supported by government. The NHS have been awful in distributing PPE, public transport have crammed people onto busses and tubes; reducing services rather than expanding them.

So again I'd say the evidence we have shows private industry who've been allowed to operate have performed phenomenally well and I therefore see no reason why businesses that were forced to close wouldn't have done likewise.

I imagine if restaurants remained open we'd have seen most closing but some delivering meals to the vunerable at reduced or no cost; whilst aggressively enforcing the same measures as supermarkets and pharmacies. I imagine if clothing companies had allowed to remain open most would have closed but some would have enforced social distancing and put a portion of their resources to manufacturing PPE to be distributed at a subsidised cost.

Hell I imagine if testing were privately manufactures many businesses would be purchasing thousands of tests and being a key part of the countrywide testing effort, providing both employee and customer peace of mind.

You say look at the evidence... Which businesses who could have exploited their ability to stay open have done so without regard for public health?

I don't know how you can't see that everything is warped to fit your ideology. It's why you prefer hypotheticals to examining real world evidence. Everything would work perfectly if all of your conditions were met, but alas they never can be, so the evidence that exists can't be assessed to test your theories. Things can only ever be discussed in general terms, where everything conveniently aligns with your core beliefs and no observable, measurable evidence is required to support it. The same textbook answers apply to every scenario, as long as you approach it from the right angle and focus on the right elements.

I thought in this case you laid out a real world scenario that requires fairly straightforward evidence to prove, so you might actually go beyond theory and hypotheticals. Everything else has already been said.
 
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Lack of key ingredients needed to produce the test kits due to surging world demand.
How can then UAE do 600k tests, while the UK or France cannot do even 300k? Why there isn't a lack for Germany, Italy, Spain, the US, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, Canada etc?
 
Can't really say why but lots of my friends live there for decades and what they usually say is they are the last to know if some shit happens there.

I have lived there for a few months and can't really say the government trust their people at all.

Just a feeling that it is hard to believe anything that is coming out of Asian countries. And, I am an Asian and lived under extreme dictatorship for 18 years.

So, maybe I am a bit paranoid.
Fair enough. I know that they have a semi-autocratic government, but I thought that it was working for them and people had trust on the government and are happy with their society.
 
More on that German study. Seems they sampled 70 infected households, they found traces but were not able to reproduce a living virus and conclude most people aren't infected via surfaces. More testing is going ahead but they don't expect to see any difference.

https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundhe...me-infektionsschutz-massnahmen-studie/seite-2

Perhaps a German speaker can translate better.

NHS are still going on about washing hands on their twitter but there's nothing about how this can spread in the confines of a home, car bus or shop. Imagine a communal area in an old peoples home with them talking coughing together. Keeping 1-2 metres apart isn't going to help and you can be sure families and other peoples close friends are still nattering away over coffee in a tiny living room.

That's interesting, thanks for that. Good if true, still means all the social distancing would need to carry on, but wouldn't need to worry about touching stuff.
 
UAE is another good one, whom have been doing near as much testings per capita as Iceland, and much more in total. In fact, they have tested more people than the UK and France combined.

So far, they have 12 deaths from 2659 cases, with a ratio of 0.45% (in total around 600k testings, with around 60k testings per 1 million people).

On the other side, Luxembourg has a much worse ratio (they have the third-highest testing per capita) at around 1.5%.

For me, Singapore is the most interesting one. They have done a decent number of tests, a bit like Germany, Italy or Israel. However, unlike those countries, their death rate is much lower, at only 0.37%. And they have been hit earlier, so you would expect that they don't have too many critical cases which will increase the ratio.

I know feck all about these things, but it would be interesting to see some studies that try to do a comparison between different strains versions of the virus (of course, adjusted to the population and number of testing). Could it be that the Asian strains are less lethal than the European ones?
No offense, but the strain theory is really dumb. Also regarding Singapore most of their cases are from last 2 weeks, so no time for people to die. And they are younger than average, the infected. Took me 1min to check these, why didn't you do the same "work". First it was S korea then Germany then Singapore/Iceland. And always the answer is in time or demographics of the infected, not strains not über-health care. This is really simple.
 
No offense, but the strain theory is really dumb. Also regarding Singapore most of their cases are from last 2 weeks, so no time for people to die. And they are younger than average, the infected. Took me 1min to check these, why didn't you do the same "work". First it was S korea then Germany then Singapore/Iceland. And always the answer is in time or demographics of the infected, not strains not über-health care. This is really simple.
All fair points, thanks!
 
Easter long weekend motorway situation Madrid to the beach in Valencia area (Benidorm and the likes)

 
As if, they'd go ballistic if they have that in cold hard proof.

Let's pretend they do intercept a cold hard evidence straight from president Xi himself, what did they do about it? Even when it's alreayd proven in january that it's the real deal? Nothing.

Things just don't add up. You can't claim you heard about it in November, accuse cover up, and fall to the same virus all over again. If this is indeed true US would have locked down ports as early as December, they'd have put more pressure on China based on their findings. This is serious issue if true (which I doubt it is), you can't say you know China is behind all this since November and kept quiet about it. You're at best an accompli
I don’t think you understand the relationship our current regime has with the intelligence community. Or science for that matter. It would be perfectly possible for them to ignore warning signs as was born out by actions.

Not saying I’m buying into anything strongly one way or the other, but I’m definitely not buying into your typically rabid defense of China.
 
That's interesting, thanks for that. Good if true, still means all the social distancing would need to carry on, but wouldn't need to worry about touching stuff.

I would still be careful about surfaces but I think the key is inside buildings/homes and vehicles with people in close proximity. Hopefully those places will have more ventilation as the spring/summer comes and there's greater chance of evaporation as well.
 
This really does raise questions about when this virus was circulating in the uk. All hearsay but a lot of people were ill from around December including myself. My sister was very ill in February and had to go to hospital for a chest x-ray and anti biotics.

I agree, so hopefully it was infecting loads of people way earlier than we ever thought, and half the population already have had it, that likely means many will have died from it that we don't realise, but it's still alot better than the other conclusion.

People's own illnesses are becoming boring I agree, but nothing other than the illusive antibody test will convince me otherwise that what I had in late Feb/early March wasn't this, which means all those around me likely have had it too, but not one of us tested.
 
Isn't this illegal?

In Italy, people can't travel from one province to the next without a good reason.

Of course is Illegal. There is traffic jam because the police has controls. 2 weeks ago I heard was 1500 euros and they stop e-very-sin-gle car.

Good, will be able to pay for health care equipment

They are not only stupid to escape the lock down, but to think that they could escape when there was news all over the place that it happened weeks before
 

Some points he makes:

-when asked about whether politicians listen to much to some individual experts, he responds that people rely too much on models - each model being based on assumptions - e.g. Imperial College assuming 50% of households not self quarantining.

-they have the chance to look at a representative sample, 1000 people from 500 households [a village which has been Germany's first hotspot of the virus]

-they took samples from 70 households, but are still waiting to gather a bigger sample size, so the following is his current impression, not his final results:

-they found traces of the virus on items, door handles or toilet water of people suffering from diarrhea, but they have never been able to grow a functioning virus from them, which according to him points toward people not getting infected via surfaces

-when asked about whether he discovered symptoms other than the previously reported near total loss of smelling and tasting senses: their current data shows around a third of patients suffering from diarrhea, including for multiple days. some people reported numbness and vertigo

-they are exploring possible cross immunities, caused by people previously overcoming other corona viruses

-says that jumping to premature conclusion would be the worst thing anybody can do and that he hopes to be able to give concrete advice around easter

-when asked about social distancing/lockdown measures and a previous statement of his that thus far there have been no proven infections from visiting the hairdresser/taking the bus/going shopping he replies that the odd infection on these occasion would not be good, but not a big problem either as the [realistic] target isn't a total shutdown of the virus spread, but reduction to a level that the system can cope with
"it's really about time we start relying on data"
when asked to clarify that he responds that their preliminary data hints at the virus not being spread via surfaces but close contact, he also mentions the first known case in Germany, where a lady from China only infected one colleague she was working closely with, no one at the restaurant, no cab driver, no one on public transport. despite being highly infectious.

when asked about whether he seems the same pattern in the cases of his study [the small village] he responds that they can usually trace the chain of infection

-says that another reason why he's opposed to a strict curfew is overall health, sitting at home away from the sun not being great for our immune systems. says the example of four people sitting on a blanket in the park being forbidden isn't supported by by facts since sars cov 2 infection happens via droplets, not via air.
mentions he would give different advice if it was a different disease like pox.
 
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I agree, so hopefully it was infecting loads of people way earlier than we ever thought, and half the population already have had it, that likely means many will have died from it that we don't realise, but it's still alot better than the other conclusion.

People's own illnesses are becoming boring I agree, but nothing other than the illusive antibody test will convince me otherwise that what I had in late Feb/early March wasn't this, which means all those around me likely have had it too, but not one of us tested.
Of course half the people in UK haven't had it. Why would hospitals be full now and not before? Why would there be such difference between countries and with-in countries or even counties. Why are lockdowns working in similar fashion everywhere in the world. These things are not hard if you think for 1 second.
 
I don't know how you can't see that everything is warped to fit your ideology. It's why you prefer hypotheticals to examining real world evidence. Everything would work perfectly if all of your conditions were met, but alas they never can be, so the evidence that exists can't be assessed to test your theories. Things can only ever be discussed in general terms, where everything conveniently aligns with your core beliefs and no observable, measurable evidence is required to support it. The same textbook answers apply to every scenario, as long as you approach it from the right angle and focus on the right elements.

I thought in this case you laid out a real world scenario that requires fairly straightforward evidence to prove, so you might actually go beyond theory and hypotheticals. Everything else has already been said.

Well avoided. We'll leave it there though as we won't agree.
 
This really does raise questions about when this virus was circulating in the uk. All hearsay but a lot of people were ill from around mid December including myself. My sister was very ill in February and had to go to hospital for a chest x-ray and anti biotics.
Me too. I experienced exactly the same symptoms as badly affected and tested covid19 sufferers have complained about.
Many media were commenting on how serious flu cases requiring hospital care were 8 times higher in Dec 2019 than previous years:

An early start to the flu season has left 2,092 needing hospital care for flu so far in December 2019. By comparison, there were 256 hospital admissions at the same point last year (2018)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7810129/Flu-cases-EIGHT-TIMES-higher-point-UK-winter.html

Rise in flu deaths and patients admitted to hospital triggers government alert to GPs. There were eight deaths in intensive care units in the week to 8 December where flu was a factor
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tal-ill-patient-gps-vaccine-phe-a9244201.html

Hundreds of thousands of people could have Christmas ruined by flu, say England's top doctors, who are predicting a rise in cases. They say the flu season has started early this year, with lots of the virus circulating. GP consultations for flu-like illness were up by a quarter to nearly 7,500 visits in the week ending 8 December.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50807003

UK flu hotspots revealed as health bosses warn cases soar by 25% and Christmas ‘wipeout’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10560866/uk-flu-hotspots-cases-soar-christmas-wipeout/
 
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Some points he makes:

-when asked about whether politicians listen to much to some individual experts, he responds that people rely too much on models - each model being based on assumptions - e.g. Imperial College assuming 50% of households not self quarantining.

-they have the chance to look at a representative sample, 1000 people from 500 households [a village which has been Germany's first hotspot of the virus]

-they took samples from 70 households, but are still waiting to gather a bigger sample size, so the following is his current impression, not his final results:

-they found traces of the virus on items, door handles or toilet water of people suffering from diarrhea, but they have never been able to grow a functioning virus from them, which according to him points toward people not getting infected via surfaces

-when asked about whether he discovered symptoms other than the previously reported near total loss of smelling and tasting senses: their current data shows around a third of patients suffering from diarrhea, including for multiple days. some people reported numbness and vertigo

-they are exploring possible cross immunities, caused by people previously overcoming other corona viruses

-says that jumping to premature conclusion would be the worst thing anybody can do and that he hopes to be able to give concrete advice around easter

-when asked about social distancing/lockdown measures and a previous statement of his that thus far there have been no proven infections from visiting the hairdresser/taking the bus/going shopping he replies that the odd infection on these occasion would not be good, but not a big problem either as the [realistic] target isn't a total shutdown of the virus spread, but reduction to a level that the system can cope with
"it's really about time we start relying on data"
when asked to clarify that he responds that their preliminary data hints at the virus not being spread via surfaces but close contact, he also mentions the first known case in Germany, where a lady from China only infected one colleague she was working closely with, no one at the restaurant, no cab driver, no one on public transport. despite being highly infectious.

when asked about whether he seems the same pattern in the cases of his study [the small village] he responds that they can usually trace the chain of infection

-says that another reason why he's opposed to a strict curfew is overall health, sitting at home away from the sun not being great for our immune systems. says the example of four people sitting on a blanket in the park being forbidden isn't supported by by facts since sars cov 2 infection happens via droplets, not via air.
mentions he would give different advice if it was a different disease like pox.


Interesting read, cheers for that.
 
Some points he makes:

-when asked about whether politicians listen to much to some individual experts, he responds that people rely too much on models - each model being based on assumptions - e.g. Imperial College assuming 50% of households not self quarantining.

-they have the chance to look at a representative sample, 1000 people from 500 households [a village which has been Germany's first hotspot of the virus]

-they took samples from 70 households, but are still waiting to gather a bigger sample size, so the following is his current impression, not his final results:

-they found traces of the virus on items, door handles or toilet water of people suffering from diarrhea, but they have never been able to grow a functioning virus from them, which according to him points toward people not getting infected via surfaces

-when asked about whether he discovered symptoms other than the previously reported near total loss of smelling and tasting senses: their current data shows around a third of patients suffering from diarrhea, including for multiple days. some people reported numbness and vertigo

-they are exploring possible cross immunities, caused by people previously overcoming other corona viruses

-says that jumping to premature conclusion would be the worst thing anybody can do and that he hopes to be able to give concrete advice around easter

-when asked about social distancing/lockdown measures and a previous statement of his that thus far there have been no proven infections from visiting the hairdresser/taking the bus/going shopping he replies that the odd infection on these occasion would not be good, but not a big problem either as the [realistic] target isn't a total shutdown of the virus spread, but reduction to a level that the system can cope with
"it's really about time we start relying on data"
when asked to clarify that he responds that their preliminary data hints at the virus not being spread via surfaces but close contact, he also mentions the first known case in Germany, where a lady from China only infected one colleague she was working closely with, no one at the restaurant, no cab driver, no one on public transport. despite being highly infectious.

when asked about whether he seems the same pattern in the cases of his study [the small village] he responds that they can usually trace the chain of infection

-says that another reason why he's opposed to a strict curfew is overall health, sitting at home away from the sun not being great for our immune systems. says the example of four people sitting on a blanket in the park being forbidden isn't supported by by facts since sars cov 2 infection happens via droplets, not via air.
mentions he would give different advice if it was a different disease like pox.

Thanks for taking the time to do that.
 
Of course half the people in UK haven't had it. Why would hospitals be full now and not before? Why would there be such difference between countries and with-in countries or even counties. Why are lockdowns working in similar fashion everywhere in the world. These things are not hard if you think for 1 second.

No need to try and be a patronising arse, just think a bit more before replying in future please, it's really not a good look.

I was merely pointing out a much higher percentage have likely had this thing than we know about, and likewise some have likely died alot earlier than we know about (more so that it actually been half), and that is a good, positive thing.
 
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Sent it to my ex-boss (very pro independence Catalan). Her reply:



:lol: :lol:
I am an independentist. But I am sure is happening in Catalonia too. Though probably less as there is beach there :p
 
Why the UK and France are doing so few testings? Are they stupid or only negligent?

For comparison, Canada with less than half of their population has done quite more testings, while Norway has done half as many testings (but it has 5 million, instead of 65 million people).

It is totally inexcusable and a big failure of France/UK governments.

In the case of France if you are basing it on the wilki page than the stat is two weeks old, it's the amount of tests done until March 27th.