This goes without saying, really. Anyone who thought it'd be relaxed after the initial 3 weeks is crazy.
I stand by the prediction of 3 +3 + 2. Then gradual release.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
This goes without saying, really. Anyone who thought it'd be relaxed after the initial 3 weeks is crazy.
I stand by the prediction of 3 +3 + 2. Then gradual release.
People just believe what they want to, don't even bother trying to look into actual evidence. Just make up their bullshit as they go along.
Same.
When my Dad* told me and my sister that he was going to Cheltenham, we berated him over the phone for a good while about how stupid he was being. He still went.
*62 year old key worker in a care home for the elderly, has had a plethora of heart problems himself in the last 10 years, incredibly high risk, surrounded by even higher risk people.
The clue's in the thread title
What do you mean by other European airports? I flew via Frankfurt on the 10th of February and nothing was done. It was business as usual. I flew into Canada on the 12th and nothing out of the ordinary. Same business as usual.
18 December was the first report of an old man with problem in Wuhan.
End of December Beijing decide it's a new virus. Around the 11th Jan they informed who that they have no credible evidence of human to human transfer. Three days later they informed that they now think it does transfer human to human.
Now from 18th January the USA and Europe did feck all.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveke...ina-before-americait-didnt-work/#6d1abd61481b
Italy banned flights from China on Jan 31
German, Swiss and Austrian airports and airlines. I think you'll have to look back at the post I answered to see the context of my answer and the gist of that was that no-one in the West responded before March. The week before the 26th Heathrow were taking what measures they could. Edit Before March was when European Airports and Airlines were responding.
Seriously? People falling for Chinese re-writing of history?
Three days later they did inform the WHO that now they think it does pass from human to human. This is around the 18th of January. So yes some countries are trying to rewrite history for their own incompetence and liability and doing feck all from 18th January till early March. The USA had their first case on the 23rd January. The same day Korea had their first case.
I was talking about the compensatory scheme you referred to in your next sentence, which you said would have led to the majority of businesses temporarily shutting down of their own volition.
We can agree that if they provided more compensation direct to businesses at that time, it would have encouraged more businesses to close. But rather than debate how many more would have closed within this hypothetical scenario, let's just stick with the imperfect evidence we have.
Does the evidence support your view?
I was in Heathrow in January, February and March. Their priority was on a seamless passenger experience not on strict health protocols. Other European airports were slightly more cautious.
I thought the pandemic was caused by a bat virus
Since when is Italy whole of Europe or most of Europe? Furthermore anyone could fly to Italy via a third country. Banning a flight doesn't help. Screening is what helps.
FFS. The original statement being responded to stated March.
Sorry. I thought you meant in January and February they were taking measures at European airports.
The Spanish Prime minister was open in an interview at their lockdown saying they tried to stay open for economic reasons but had to change.
The illness is caused by the virus and it would likely have become an epidemic.
It developed into a pandemic due to the Chinese cover-up and WHO incompetence.
Yes but if you have an unscheduled, evacuation charter coming in full of people that have been confined with a known case, then you'd hope at least basic checks would be done. To suggest that perhaps more was being done on random flights stretches credibility.
They were treated excellently, both by the cruise line (they were two weeks in to a 5 week cruise and got 100% refund amongst other things), and the FO. IN Brazil, on the day of departure they were being checked by doctors (not tested) every hour. Prior to that they were being checked for temps 3 times a day. Like I sais, nothing is perfect, but the lack of awareness from Heathrow (or whoever should have put something is place) was staggering.
Edit: I accept that things were being done in the UK before this, was just responding to the Heathrow part.
Depends on the strategy.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3
On Feb 3, Tedros was still telling people not to ban international travel.
If you read back I said the tests were simple and relied upon temperatures being taken, I didn't claim anything more was being done and was quite clear. I'm unsure which one of us is stretching credibilty here.
Why weren't they temperature tested then?
You said the tests relied upon temperatures being taken. I dispute that that was in place, for the simple matter that a plane arrived with a great big fecking Coronavirus sticker on the side and the passengers from that specific flight did not have their temp taken.
It is stretching credibility to suggest Heathrow were taking the temperatures of passengers and yet they didn't think this plane - a plane full of people who had been in contact with at least one known case (I don't know the results of the other passengers) - wasn't worth the effort.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, if so apologies.
I think this Sky person is the only person who genuinely believes their figures.
*4 months ago...*
...was December 8th. Hubei was locked down on the 24th of January. That's an extraordinarily large month you've got there. As of January 14th (Less than 3 months ago) reports out of China were still saying there was no evidence of human to human contact, which the WHO passed on and which *The West* seems to have believed.
Your timeline is ballsed up.
From late January onwards sure, many western governments might need to take a long hard look at their responses. China's response from that point on was particularly repressive but also apparently effective - no argument. Before that point the wheels in China seem to have moved slowly, your obfuscations notwithstanding.
Researchers in Shanghai hope to determine whether some recovered coronavirus patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital.
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.
what do you propose and how will it be enforced?
I confess I know nothing about 'This plane' with a sticker on it.
The original charge was that nothing was being done by or in the West before March.
Airlines were ceasing flying to certain parts of the world, temps were being taken at various airports and contacts being traced as early as the end of Jan and beginning of February. I don't think the response was coherent anywhere in particular.
I feel our correspondence on this point suggests that something was being done before March in stages also depending on information from China, I have nothing else to add.
I just wanted to know where you'd heard that Heathrow specifically had implemented passenger checks mid-March as per my original reply to your claim. You should get those castors taken off the goalposts. Cheers.
You are being ridiculous. It's notable you attempting to demand beyond what was offered.
This backs up when action started and I personally remember temperatures being taken at the same time, I wish I could track down any of the articles among thousands now on the web just to satisfy you but perhaps you could come up with a sourced denial of this yourself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/travel/Coronavirus-travel.html
edit health screening also reported by nytimes as beginning mid Jan. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html
The reason other virus scares like SARS and bird flu were not as devastating as first thought was down in no small measure to the sharing of information early doors.
This does not appear to have happened in this case.
And if the data from China is to be believed - especially now they say they are on top of it, then all I can say is that the speed of their response indicates:
1. A deep knowledge of what would happen and therefore what to do
and
2. A state of readiness.
This does not appear to have happened in this case.
And if the data from China is to be believed - especially now they say they are on top of it, then all I can say is that the speed of their response indicates:
1. A deep knowledge of what would happen and therefore what to do
and
2. A state of readiness.
It would be funny to watch a politically and economically divided Europe try to enforce anything on an authoritarian state like China, which also has almost double the population of our continent.
Countries might recognise it's not a good idea to outsource their entire supply chain for a start.
The same China who were telling people there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV)?
that tweet was from the 14th January. by 30th January at least 54 English-language papers on the coronavirus had been published
That is conjecture. It hasn't been proven how the virus started.
If this is true, then it's more or less all over boys and girls. We've basically run into the 'big one', the one that wipes out the human race.
Yep. Start making things again
I know in the grand scheme of things this is very small, but I just came back from my bike ride and I go past shops, post offices, etc. And you see people lining up outside, 6ft apart, most wearing gloves and masks and it just makes you think how fecking crazy this all is. How much the world has changed in a matter of weeks. Again, I know there's obviously way more important and awful things going on than people queuing outside of shops, but I'm saying it more in the sense of how fast people's behaviors have changed.
Just mental to think when we were all celebrating the new year and welcoming in a new decade, that in merely a few month's time the world would be completely changed. Crazy times.
Just mental to think when we were all celebrating the new year and welcoming in a new decade, that in merely a few month's time the world would be completely changed. Crazy times.
I think we can agree on both - that China fecked up, and so did other countries. When it was so clearly a problem in Italy, could have done a lot more a lot sooner.