SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

FrantikChicken said:
Isn't this what all countries should be aiming for? I'm really hoping that mass testing will be a thing after this first lockdown wave
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The antibody test has been spoken about consistently by the UK government (right from the infamous "herd immunity" press conference). It will be absolutely key for all countries to roll this out as quickly as possible, if they want to prevent their economies going into a serious tailspin.
 
sglowrider said:
Antibodies are produced after like 10 days after the initial infection. These antibodies test is quite different to the other PCR/RNA testing which can detect the presence of the virus almost from Day One onwards. The downside to PCR/RNA testing is that its very susceptible to human error. The swabs need to be done correctly when collecting the sample or it will skew the test results. Then the storage of the swab has to be stored correctly at a low temperature of like 4 degrees or below. Then it has to be delivered to the nearest lab, too long and the sample quality deteriorates.

The antibodies test kits, on the other hand, are POCT ie they are at the point of care where the blood is drawn from the finger, then drops of blood are then dropped into a self-contained cassette. Then you wait for 5-10 minutes for the result.
Less prone to human error/test accuracy but its antibodies so it basically tells you that you have it (or not) only after your body produces antibodies, which is like 10 days later.

Imo PCR kits which are more expensive but in theory more accurate, are for frontline workers and high-risk individuals.
The cheaper antibodies kits are better for those who have been home isolated/quarantined or those who live in rural communities. They as the professor has suggested, can do a self-test to find out if they have the virus, after 10 days or they have recovered and therefore can return to work. Plus if you are out in rural areas like in Souther Europe or 3rd World countries, the PCR's requirement for a lab will not be helpful.

Finally, the incubation period of the virus is at least 14 days. This means that if I pass the test/negative, it doesn't mean that I wont pick it up a couple of weeks or month later. So all of us if we want to contribute to the control of the spread of the virus, needs to be tested every 4-6 weeks. This is why eventually the costs of the test kits and their ease of use is critical until we find a vaccine.
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Thanks. Do you know can these tests be used repeatedly or just once?
 
worldgonemad said:
Ok heres a question for you guys . I,m in a bit of a dilema . Self employed and i work almost exclusively in peoples homes . I,m in a limited company so i qualify for very little help from the government , which is fine , i do understand . Currently the direction from the gov is to carry on work if you cannot work from home . This weeks job has cancelled as a close neighbour to where i was due to be working has cancer and i would have to walk through communal areas ( the apartment i was due to be working in is unnocupied )
Next week my customers are very keen to have me work for them and the two rooms i am working in are also unnocupied , also they have a spare bathroom i could use . The following week i.m due to be working on an outside of a house . Its in a terraced street and the customer is living in scotland for the duration of the pandemic so this house is also empty . Ive spoken to lots of other trades lads that more often than not lone work and they on the whole think we should follow the guidelines and work where possible .
What do you lot think ?

ps for clarity i,m in the UK
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You should do what you think is best. Construction hasn't been closed down and if you can maintain the 2m social distancing at all times there is no legal reason for you to stop.

I would stop if I could but my employer wants me to come into the office whenever I need to pick up files/drawings etc.
 
RedSky said:
See I have a problem, I've decided to live with my mum through this because she was already showing signs of going crazy before the lockdown happened. Where she lives is remote in the countryside but next to a busy road.

If she wants exercise it means having to walk onto the busy road (no pavement) and walk along it for 5/6mins before finally getting to a lane. If she drove for 2minutes she'd be able to walk safely. It's far more dangerous that she walks along said busy road, but the Government and Police demands she does that. The other issue being (i'm a runner) and have noticed far more drivers right now not obeying the laws of the road, they drift all over the road over here going in the middle of the road because they know its not busy anymore.

My mums in tears every morning because of this. I honestly have no idea what to do, at this point for her (and my) sanity i'm thinking i'll have to drive us 2/3mins up the road and if we get a fine, we get a fine. I'm not risking her safety anymore going along the road she is scared of. What do you advise in a situation like that? My neighbour FYI is driving 20minutes to walk his dog in a local park every morning. I'm never going to dob him in because he's a lovely guy, but it seems absurd that our mental health is suffering because of this where others aren't taking the rules seriously.
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To be honest mate (and as you know I can totally relate to your situation with your mum) you're her carer and within the legislation with regards to reasonable excuse assuming caring responsibilities for someone is an accepted purpose of travel. I would suggest if you can't take her out without a very short journey (make it as short as possible) and that not doing so will have an adverse effect on her health, do it. If you are stopped and explain the situation and your caring responsibilities I don't think any officer in the world would criticise what you're doing and the purpose of your very short, and I would argue essential, journey.

Ultimately I say to people is your journey essential and ask what they are doing. It's usually pretty obvious if that individual is genuine or trying to break the rules. Another think you could consider is fitting this exercise in when you take her shopping. That way if you are stopped you can explain you have your shopping with you and have done it all together to reduce the amount of travel you are doing by frequency.

Hope that helps.
 
FrantikChicken said:
You don't. They're either working here without having registered for a National Insurance Number / GP, which would be really dumb as it takes about a day to get all that sorted, or they've simply gone back home to be with their families during this difficult time which is quite understandable.
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I’m pretty sure it’s not for family reasons for most of them. Must be different reasons then, having no income definitely one of them. It’s people from many countries moving back so for some insurance will be a valid point.
 
Sarni said:
Nearly all Poles I know who work in UK have now returned home to get free medical help here if needed. They'll stay here until late May at least It kind of annoys me because they are the same people who look down at those living here permanently bragging about their amazing British salaries (usually inflating them by 50% minimum when speaking about it). Now all of a sudden they all feel like they belong here again because their amazing salaries is not enough to afford a basic medical package in England.
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Ermm. Healthcare in the UK is free.
 
TheReligion said:
To be honest mate (and as you know I can totally relate to your situation with your mum) you're her carer and within the legislation with regards to reasonable excuse assuming caring responsibilities for someone is an accepted purpose of travel. I would suggest if you can't take her out without a very short journey (make it as short as possible) and that not doing so will have an adverse effect on her health, do it. If you are stopped and explain the situation and your caring responsibilities I don't think any officer in the world would criticise what you're doing and the purpose of your very short, and I would argue essential, journey.

Ultimately I say to people is your journey essential and ask what they are doing. It's usually pretty obvious if that individual is genuine or trying to break the rules. Another think you could consider is fitting this exercise in when you take her shopping. That way if you are stopped you can explain you have your shopping with you and have done it all together to reduce the amount of travel you are doing by frequency.

Hope that helps.
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Cheers, i'll have a chat with her. Appreciate your time to respond, take care man.
 
Hansa said:
An email from Anthony, about truck drivers who need masks. “If they’re in the cab by themselves they should be in great shape,” Trump says. “I know a lot about trucks.”
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They shouldn't ask him any questions that require an intelligent answer.
 
JPRouve said:
That's what France is supposed to be aiming for, large scale serology tests instead of the current virus tests.
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Just watching the news. Is it true French figures are vastly inaccurate and that many in care homes have not been added to the total deaths? Unbelievable if so.
 
sglowrider said:
Antibodies are produced after like 10 days after the initial infection. These antibodies test is quite different to the other PCR/RNA testing which can detect the presence of the virus almost from Day One onwards. The downside to PCR/RNA testing is that its very susceptible to human error. The swabs need to be done correctly when collecting the sample or it will skew the test results. Then the storage of the swab has to be stored correctly at a low temperature of like 4 degrees or below. Then it has to be delivered to the nearest lab, too long and the sample quality deteriorates.

The antibodies test kits, on the other hand, are POCT ie they are at the point of care where the blood is drawn from the finger, then drops of blood are then dropped into a self-contained cassette. Then you wait for 5-10 minutes for the result. Room temperature storage.
Less prone to human error/test accuracy but its antibodies so it basically tells you that you have it (or not) only after your body produces antibodies, which is like 10 days later.

Imo PCR kits which are more expensive but in theory more accurate, are for frontline workers and high-risk individuals.
The cheaper antibodies kits are better for those who have been home isolated/quarantined or those who live in rural communities. They as the professor has suggested, can do a self-test to find out if they have the virus, after 10 days or they have recovered and therefore can return to work. Plus if you are out in rural areas like in Souther Europe or 3rd World countries, the PCR's requirement for a lab will not be helpful.

Finally, the incubation period of the virus is at least 14 days. This means that if I pass the test/negative, it doesn't mean that I wont pick it up a couple of weeks or month later. So all of us if we want to contribute to the control of the spread of the virus, needs to be tested every 4-6 weeks. This is why eventually the costs of the test kits and their ease of use is critical until we find a vaccine.
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I suspect that "passing the test" will mean testing positive for past exposure. Everyone else will be lumped in together and have to continue with social distancing.

It's going to be really odd. I imagine that people who have already had COVID will get some sort of certificate/wristband/smartphone app which allows them do things that everyone else cannot e.g. going to the pub, or the gym. I predict we're going to see the word "covenvy" enter the lexicon within the next 12 months.
 
A friend has developed a live data interactive world map showing the daily information feeds,including animations. Just saw him testing it before he puts it online for people to see. Looks like Italy is starting to curve on confirmed cases, and Spain is just starting to enter that same period ( this doesn't include deaths as they tend to still rise after the curve has flattened) UK is looking very similar to Italy model a week behind but with a bit of a wobble. US is looking scary though, and China's curve is starting rise again.
 
Hansa said:
An email from Anthony, about truck drivers who need masks. “If they’re in the cab by themselves they should be in great shape,” Trump says. “I know a lot about trucks.”
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He knows more about trucks than anyone, believe me.
 
TheReligion said:
Just watching the news. Is it true French figures are vastly inaccurate and that many in care homes have not been added to the total deaths? Unbelievable if so.
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Most likely true everywhere.

In one town here there have been 446 deaths recorded in March, and ordinarily there would have been 98. Only 136 of those have been attributed to the virus. Countries just can't keep up and everybody is reluctant to declare a death as being 'from the virus' when there is a possibility it's just 'with the virus'.
 
TheReligion said:
I'd suggest getting your ID sorted. The early hours extend to the all emergency services now and think they will start getting more firm with checking as many are still trying to sneak in sadly.
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I asked M&S and Aldi. Both of them said they accept the BlueLightCard as ID, so might try Sainsbury’s tomorrow after my all nighter and hope they do too
 
TheReligion said:
Just watching the news. Is it true French figures are vastly inaccurate and that many in care homes have not been added to the total deaths? Unbelievable if so.
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That's a poor report. The figures that you see are hospitals patients whether you are talking about the UK or France. You can't actually have the care homes figures at the same rhythm or with the same accuracy because for the most part these people aren't covid19 patients, they die for a variety of reasons and would need to be tested post-mortem which may or may not be done, the ones that were covid19 patients are counted.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I suspect that "passing the test" will mean testing positive for past exposure. Everyone else will be lumped in together and have to continue with social distancing.

It's going to be really odd. I imagine that people who have already had COVID will get some sort of certificate/wristband/smartphone app which allows them do things that everyone else cannot e.g. going to the pub, or the gym. I predict we're going to see the word "covenvy" enter the lexicon within the next 12 months.
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Or a new entrant into Urban Dictionary in 2021:

Covjefe : A Covidised Leader like Bojo and hopefully Trump.
 
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Can you effing believe this question from the Fox presenter?:

Guardian transcript said:
"One last question: how can we pray for you?"

Trump would love that, he says, he praises the evangelical communities, the communities of faith who “were on my side in the last election as you know”.
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sglowrider said:
Or a new entrant into Urban Dictionary in 2021L

Covjefe : A Covidised Leader like Bojo and hopefully Trump.
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Didn't Trump misspell a tweet with that word a few months ago? He's probably try to copyright that word. :lol:
 
BTW, a mental health support officer I know just called at my house, as she was concerned about my welfare (I'm ok, as it happens). In the course of conversation, she revealed that 'normal services' from the local authority wouldn't resume for 'many months'(!)
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I asked M&S and Aldi. Both of them said they accept the BlueLightCard as ID, so might try Sainsbury’s tomorrow after my all nighter and hope they do too
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As long as you're getting your ID sorted it shouldn't be a problem. I'm also thinking you could do with ID incase you are stopped by police. The lockdown is only going to get tighter.
 
Sarni said:
Don't you have to have any sort of insurance to be entitled to healthcare? I don't really have any idea how it works as I've never work abroad but I've heard this repeated multiple times.
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No, if you're European you can get primary care and emergency hospital care in the UK (for this year, at least). You'd use your European Health Insurance Card, which is free to get in your home country.

As far as other healthcare is concerned (getting your knee replaced as an elective procedure, for instance), I don't know how it works for foreigners in the UK. In Italy, Europeans who have taken official residency here can pay into the Italian national healthcare system on a sliding scale according to your income. If you don't earn much, you don't pay much.
 
JPRouve said:
That's a poor report. The figures that you see are hospitals patients whether you are talking about the UK or France. You can't actually have the care homes figures at the same rhythm or with the same accuracy because for the most part these people aren't covid19 patients, they die for a variety of reasons and would need to be tested post-mortem which may or may not be done, the ones that were covid19 patients are counted.
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The report was from France itself to by fair and was very critical of Macron, the figures and the French response. It will likely be on BBC if you want to check it out.
 
disposable-glove-donning.jpg
 
2cents said:
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If they do generate this data, it would be interesting (also expensive) to do some DNA sequencing of these people and see if there are any differences between those who are symptomatic and asymptomatic. This sequencing will only make sense if the original antibody test is done as widely as possible, because the sequencing doesn't generate very strong results usually.

2cents said:
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He can offer it speakership, he might win again.
If this joke has been done on twitter already, sorry.
 
Italy's coronavirus outbreak is taking a heavy toll on health workers, with more than 60 doctors confirmed to have died since it began.

A total of 61 doctors have died during the Covid-19 pandemic in Italy, says the national federation of doctors FNOMCeO, including at least 22 in the past week.

According to its list most of the victims worked in and around Lombardy, the region at the centre of the Italian outbreak, but doctors have also died further south in Le Marche, Campania, Sicily and Puglia.

In total 8,358 healthcare workers have contracted the new coronavirus in Italy, according to the latest count by the Italian Higher Health Institute (ISS).
Around 4,000 of those infected are nurses, said the head of nurses' federation FNOPI, Barbara Mangiacavalli.

Despite the dangers nearly 9,500 nurses volunteered to join a national coronavirus task force to help at hospitals in the worst-affected regions, she said on Sunday. Italy's Civil Protection department sought 500 nurses as emergency reinforcements, but within 48 hours had received 9,448 applications.

Last week the department received nearly 8,000 applications from doctors volunteering for a similar task force, after asking for 300.
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https://www.thelocal.it/20200330/more-than-60-doctors-have-died-in-italys-coronavirus-outbreak
 
Can someone link me to any good articles on the impact of C19 on Financial Services please?
 
This has probably already been posted, but it's well worth a watch for anyone who hasn't already seen it:



It's long but extremely informative.
 
2cents said:
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From 8:00 in the video I've just posted above with a Korean professor, he says there are cases of people recovering from coronavirus and then showing symptoms again after 5-7 days. I wonder if the German approach works, but patients need to be given 2 weeks after they've stopped showing symptoms before they should be mixing with the public again.
 
In regards to only counting deaths that have occurred in hospitals in the official figures, according to the Guardian, a spokesperson from the UK Government earlier today confirmed that this was also true in the UK, but from tomorrow the Office for National Statistics will start including deaths that have occurred in the community into the statistics on a weekly basis.

I suppose the week lag would be the time required to perform post-postmortems to confirm COVID.
 
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