SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

mitChley said:
My next door neighbour (who works for the NHS) continues to drive to places to go for walks, despite the fact we live right next to so many great walking locations. She's thick as mince.
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We walked up to the Downs in Bristol yesterday (and do first thing every morning for our exercise) and the vast majority of people were respecting the regulations but there was plenty of police circling around enforcing it. There was numerous people who had driven up and parked up and I saw them catching the owners of the car as they arrived back and it was quite funny listening to them explain that there is literally no excuse that they could come up with to justify it. If you live too far away to walk to the Downs then just walk out your door and do a few laps of the block. It's exercise not a pleasure trip.

There was also a lot of old people who had driven up just so they could sit in their car and read the news paper for a couple of hours. I walked past one as a policeman was asking them to explain where he got his daily newspaper, Costa Coffee and snacks from which made me chuckle.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Being slightly picky with this, I thought the germs lasted longer in a hard surface (gloves) for hours but only 5-10 minutes on skin.

It’s more likely people will Keep their disposable gloves on Too long and actually be carrying all kinds of germs and virus on them.

What I’m trying to say is, even though those in The supermarket are wearing gloves I’d say that’s no better THan not wearing gloves, possibly worse.
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This is what i was thinking. You would have to take the gloves off and bin them every time you touch something or somethings. Stuff will just build up on the gloves like they would on your skin unless you are changing them repeatedly.
 
Older doctors should be protecting themselves, I'm seeing a lot of bravado around here, it is endearing, but I question the logic.

In some cases their technical (surgical, invasive maneuvers, etc) expertise is irreplaceable, and there may be no alternative. But in many other cases their brains are far more important than their bodies.

Younger doctors (we're calling first-year residents) would benefit a lot from a direct line to these guys (phone, skype) to ask some pretty basic stuff which elude us. They can be extremely valuable in tele-working.

Plus, there will be a lot of work for them to do when this is over/controlled. Waiting lines for every other kind of health issue will be immense after this and we'll nees everyone we can get.
 
Sarni said:
Nearly all Poles I know who work in UK have now returned home to get free medical help here if needed. They'll stay here until late May at least It kind of annoys me because they are the same people who look down at those living here permanently bragging about their amazing British salaries (usually inflating them by 50% minimum when speaking about it). Now all of a sudden they all feel like they belong here again because their amazing salaries is not enough to afford a basic medical package in England.
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I'm confused, EU citizens are entitled to NHS healthcare. Why do they need to fly back home for that?
 
FrantikChicken said:
I'm confused, EU citizens are entitled to NHS healthcare. Why do they need to fly back home for that?
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Don't you have to have any sort of insurance to be entitled to healthcare? I don't really have any idea how it works as I've never work abroad but I've heard this repeated multiple times.
 
Have we got any food microbiologists here?



This thread is confusing to read through.
 
Why are some people in the UK still not getting this lockdown? The vast majority are but there's some allegedly educated people who seem to think wandering around is acceptable.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Probably not the right place to ask, but does anyone know if a BlueLightCard is acceptable to get in to the supermarkets in NHS hour?
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I'd suggest getting your ID sorted. The early hours extend to the all emergency services now and think they will start getting more firm with checking as many are still trying to sneak in sadly.
 
11101 said:
Here you have to wear plastic disposable gloves in the supermarkets.

You don't know who has washed their hands before they go around touching all the food and packaging in the store. If you make everybody wear gloves at least you know those grubby hands won't be placing the virus on a tin of beans where it can sit waiting until the next person picks it up. Even if you wash your hands when you get home and after unpacking everything, the virus could still be there when you take the can out of the cupboard to eat it.
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Some stores have tried this here, but health officials have strongly recommended not putting out those gloves. First of all they're not really the kinds of gloves that stop viruses, and secondly if you make everyone touch the same general area to put on plastic gloves (like the box the plastic gloves are in, or something like that), you've just created a hotspot of infection.

It's similar to the reason why they don't recommend regular, healthy people using masks. The thinking is that you probably won't get the actually effective masks, and a significant amount of people will put them on (or take them off) the wrong way, increasing the risk of infection. People will also basically just touch their face more. So the general idea is that even if some use them perfectly, the total infection level in the country will go up.

What every store has at its entrance is some antibac, though, and many strict posters telling people not to touch stuff they're not buying.
 
Ok heres a question for you guys . I,m in a bit of a dilema . Self employed and i work almost exclusively in peoples homes . I,m in a limited company so i qualify for very little help from the government , which is fine , i do understand . Currently the direction from the gov is to carry on work if you cannot work from home . This weeks job has cancelled as a close neighbour to where i was due to be working has cancer and i would have to walk through communal areas ( the apartment i was due to be working in is unnocupied )
Next week my customers are very keen to have me work for them and the two rooms i am working in are also unnocupied , also they have a spare bathroom i could use . The following week i.m due to be working on an outside of a house . Its in a terraced street and the customer is living in scotland for the duration of the pandemic so this house is also empty . Ive spoken to lots of other trades lads that more often than not lone work and they on the whole think we should follow the guidelines and work where possible .
What do you lot think ?

ps for clarity i,m in the UK
 
TheReligion said:
Why are some people in the UK still not getting this lockdown? The vast majority are but there's some allegedly educated people who seem to think wandering around is acceptable.
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See I have a problem, I've decided to live with my mum through this because she was already showing signs of going crazy before the lockdown happened. Where she lives is remote in the countryside but next to a busy road.

If she wants exercise it means having to walk onto the busy road (no pavement) and walk along it for 5/6mins before finally getting to a lane. If she drove for 2minutes she'd be able to walk safely. It's far more dangerous that she walks along said busy road, but the Government and Police demands she does that. The other issue being (i'm a runner) and have noticed far more drivers right now not obeying the laws of the road, they drift all over the road over here going in the middle of the road because they know its not busy anymore.

My mums in tears every morning because of this. I honestly have no idea what to do, at this point for her (and my) sanity i'm thinking i'll have to drive us 2/3mins up the road and if we get a fine, we get a fine. I'm not risking her safety anymore going along the road she is scared of. What do you advise in a situation like that? My neighbour FYI is driving 20minutes to walk his dog in a local park every morning. I'm never going to dob him in because he's a lovely guy, but it seems absurd that our mental health is suffering because of this where others aren't taking the rules seriously.
 


The discrepancy with Israel is likely due to a much more extensive testing program.

(Edit): full list:

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2cents said:


The discrepancy with Israel is likely due to a much more extensive testing program.

(Edit): full list:

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You don't find it strange to see Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria in the Middle East?
 
VP89 said:
If the test is inaccurate it's a problem. Tests I think have a 75% accuracy if I'm not mistaken. At least that was the case 3 weeks ago.
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75%? I’ve not seen that, are the 25% false negatives or false positives?
 
worldgonemad said:
Ok heres a question for you guys . I,m in a bit of a dilema . Self employed and i work almost exclusively in peoples homes . I,m in a limited company so i qualify for very little help from the government , which is fine , i do understand . Currently the direction from the gov is to carry on work if you cannot work from home . This weeks job has cancelled as a close neighbour to where i was due to be working has cancer and i would have to walk through communal areas ( the apartment i was due to be working in is unnocupied )
Next week my customers are very keen to have me work for them and the two rooms i am working in are also unnocupied , also they have a spare bathroom i could use . The following week i.m due to be working on an outside of a house . Its in a terraced street and the customer is living in scotland for the duration of the pandemic so this house is also empty . Ive spoken to lots of other trades lads that more often than not lone work and they on the whole think we should follow the guidelines and work where possible .
What do you lot think ?

ps for clarity i,m in the UK
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I’d swerve this week but you will be ok to work on the empty terraced house.
 
Sarni said:
Don't you have to have any sort of insurance to be entitled to healthcare? I don't really have any idea how it works as I've never work abroad but I've heard this repeated multiple times.
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You don't. They're either working here without having registered for a National Insurance Number / GP, which would be really dumb as it takes about a day to get all that sorted, or they've simply gone back home to be with their families during this difficult time which is quite understandable.
 
Pexbo said:
75%? I’ve not seen that, are the 25% false negatives or false positives?
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Feck knows. My wife works at a hospital and told me a few weeks ago their tests were only 75% accuracy. One of her patients was negative.. And after a retest she was positive. In that window lots of nurses and pharmacists were close to the patient thinking it was OK to be around them.

Might have improved since though.
 
JPRouve said:
You don't find it strange to see Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria in the Middle East?
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Not really, they’re often lumped in with the rest. MENA would obviously be a more appropriate label.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
But it will find its way on the packaging. As soon as that person wearing gloves picks their nose or wipes their mouth or coughs into gloved hand

Gloves may stop you personally getting something on your hands but it sure as shit doesn’t stop the spreading of it

Edit: also, am I right about it lasting Hours or days on hard surfaces (gloves) and only 5-10 minutes on skin. I can’t find where I seen that Info now, there’s so much about.
What’s your thoughts on that
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It's not perfect, but like i said upthread, the goal of this is not to totally stop transmission. It's to slow it down, and various protection measures such as gloves help that. Same goes for alcohol gel, its not perfect as it takes up to a minute to kill the virus and that only applies to areas that get properly coated.

There is research so far that shows how long it survives on surfaces but i haven't seen one that looks at time on skin.
 
VP89 said:
Feck knows. My wife works at a hospital and told me a few weeks ago their tests were only 75% accuracy. One of her patients was negative.. And after a retest she was positive. In that window lots of nurses and pharmacists were close to the patient thinking it was OK to be around them.

Might have improved since though.
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That doesn’t confirm an incorrect test, it could just suggest that the patient contracted the disease between tests.
 
Steven Seagull said:
I’d swerve this week but you will be ok to work on the empty terraced house.
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Thanks mate , for clarity this is what the gov guidelines are :


If you cannot work from home then you can still travel for work purposes, provided you are not showing coronavirus symptoms and neither you nor any of your household are self-isolating. This is consistent with advice from the Chief Medical Officer.


Employers who have people in their offices or onsite should ensure that employees are able to follow Public Health England guidelines including, where possible, maintaining a 2 metre distance from others, and washing their hands with soap and water often for at least 20 seconds (or using hand sanitiser gel if soap and water is not available).


Work carried out in people’s homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance, can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms. Again, it will be important to ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a 2 metre distance from any household occupants, are followed to ensure everyone’s safety.


No work should be carried out in any household which is isolating or where an individual is being shielded, unless it is to remedy a direct risk to the safety of the household, such as emergency plumbing or repairs, and where the tradesperson is willing to do so. In such cases, Public Health England can provide advice to tradespeople and households.


No work should be carried out by a tradesperson who has coronavirus symptoms, however mild.

bolded the relevant part .
 
VP89 said:
Feck knows. My wife works at a hospital and told me a few weeks ago their tests were only 75% accuracy. One of her patients was negative.. And after a retest she was positive. In that window lots of nurses and pharmacists were close to the patient thinking it was OK to be around them.

Might have improved since though.
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Different tests. You are taking about pcr for detection of virus. The Germans are talking about detection of antibodies.

PCR sensitivity is not great, possible false negatives. If clinical picture is consistent you have to send at least 2 if not 3 or 4 specimens.
 
Pexbo said:
That doesn’t confirm an incorrect test, it could just suggest that the patient contracted the disease between tests.
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It could, but is unlikely given they were hopsitalised in a ward segregated away from covid patients at the time. It could have happened but it's unlikely is all.


From a quick google: RT-PCR tests detected it correctly 71 percent of the time.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
So has Tom Hanks caught it again?
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One Night Only said:
This is interesting.

Any downsides / negatives to this?
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Antibodies are produced after like 10 days after the initial infection. These antibodies test is quite different to the other PCR/RNA testing which can detect the presence of the virus almost from Day One onwards. The downside to PCR/RNA testing is that its very susceptible to human error. The swabs need to be done correctly when collecting the sample or it will skew the test results. Then the storage of the swab has to be stored correctly at a low temperature of like 4 degrees or below. Then it has to be delivered to the nearest lab, too long and the sample quality deteriorates.

The antibodies test kits, on the other hand, are POCT ie they are at the point of care where the blood is drawn from the finger, then drops of blood are then dropped into a self-contained cassette. Then you wait for 5-10 minutes for the result. Room temperature storage.
Less prone to human error/test accuracy but its antibodies so it basically tells you that you have it (or not) only after your body produces antibodies, which is like 10 days later.

Imo PCR kits which are more expensive but in theory more accurate, are for frontline workers and high-risk individuals.
The cheaper antibodies kits are better for those who have been home isolated/quarantined or those who live in rural communities. They as the professor has suggested, can do a self-test to find out if they have the virus, after 10 days or they have recovered and therefore can return to work. Plus if you are out in rural areas like in Souther Europe or 3rd World countries, the PCR's requirement for a lab will not be helpful.

Finally, the incubation period of the virus is at least 14 days. This means that if I pass the test/negative, it doesn't mean that I wont pick it up a couple of weeks or month later. So all of us if we want to contribute to the control of the spread of the virus, needs to be tested every 4-6 weeks. This is why eventually the costs of the test kits and their ease of use is critical until we find a vaccine.
 
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Just seeing a press conference in Italy, they said one hospital in Milan had 39 deaths on Friday alone. Must be heartbreaking for the doctors working there.


They also said the last 4 days have been extremely positive in Lombardy and they could see restrictions being relaxed slightly in a few weeks, although the rest of Italy is about 10 day behind.
 
FrantikChicken said:
Isn't this what all countries should be aiming for? I'm really hoping that mass testing will be a thing after this first lockdown wave
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That's what France is supposed to be aiming for, large scale serology tests instead of the current virus tests.
 
Sarni said:
Nearly all Poles I know who work in UK have now returned home to get free medical help here if needed. They'll stay here until late May at least It kind of annoys me because they are the same people who look down at those living here permanently bragging about their amazing British salaries (usually inflating them by 50% minimum when speaking about it). Now all of a sudden they all feel like they belong here again because their amazing salaries is not enough to afford a basic medical package in England.
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Health service is free here.

They are going home because they can't earn any money and the government took too long to announce support for the self employed. They also live in terrible conditions with many sharing 8-10 in a house.
 
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