SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Dan_F said:
I don’t see why a self employed person earning over £45k a year should need to take £2900 a month. It should be capped far lower. What are they going to do, pay their mortgage, bills, food and put the rest in their bank account for a summer holiday? Not to mention the self employed who earn more than that.

I’m not talking about the self employed who are living month to month. There’s also a lot of very well off self employed people, who simply don’t need that big of a hand out, especially when lots of people aren’t going to be getting anywhere near that (from the sectors I mentioned previously).
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You could say the same about people employed by a company etc too though
 
Grinner said:
Are the Gov. keeping track of all of those who recover? Presumably these folks can be put to work in essential areas if fit and able since they now have immunity.
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I think chief health officer said it is very unlikely but they're not 100% sure yet.

Imagine being the poor sod who gets it, recovers then goes out to find out it IS possible to catch it twice.
 
11101 said:
For a public health body it is the single most important number.
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And any public health body would recognise the number of new cases is limited by the amount of testing being done and not by actual new cases. We all know there is an order of magnitude greater than that with COVID-19. The “drop” in cases is such a small number to be negligible too, it has such a small degree of confidence. Just looking at these headline figures in isolation does not tell you anything relevant.

If someone can present a fuller, more insightful case for good news. I’d love to read it. The Italians are publishing a fair bit of data.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Domestic electricians and plumbers are absolutely key workers 110%. Households can’t be left with unsafe electrics or unsanitary conditions. At a lower level, electric and functioning plumbing are needed for a family to be reasonably expected to survive in the modern age.

The problem around construction policy currently is that there are tens of thousands of workers using the tube in London everyday. They’re allowing suppliers to stay open so you’ll have jobbing builders working in people‘s houses as an inevitable by-product because they need to work and plenty of householders don’t give a feck.
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He mostly installs lighting. He’s said himself it’s totally not necessary. Some will be, sure, but most work isn’t urgent.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Is there any truth in this - 'Scientific modelling which estimates 1,000 cases for every death means the UK currently has about 300,000 people with coronavirus.' And 'Rate of infection meant one million people in the UK will have coronavirus by the end of next week.'

Taken it from Yahoo news
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Going by the headline it sounds a bit more like arithmetic than actual modelling. That's not to say it's wrong though.
 
spiriticon said:
As a scientist and being thoroughly objective, I am actually really intrigued to see what happens if a country just doesn't give a feck about this virus and opens up everything.

I just don't want the UK to be the one that tests this theory.
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Presumably the heard immunity people talk about... After the health service is overrun... Though I guess in American
that simply means demand outstrips supply for a few months and the price to be on a ventilator goes through the roof?
 
TheGame said:
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The WWE used to do " Please dont try this at home " videos'. Whilst having a serious - comedic nature to them I thought it would be great if they could do one for the coronavirus and send it to children/adults etc as it could save lives.

golden_blunder said:
Other than common sense, what is stopping you going to someone's home if they invite you?
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I'm in W.London. I went for a 15 minute walk and whilst it's extremely quite apart from the people going corner shop there was one person who went to anothers and did not obey the distancing at all.

DomesticTadpole said:
Glad I refuse to set foot in their pubs. What a terrible man.
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There should be a list of companies to boycott after this. Makes me sick.

harshad said:
Complete lockdown in India for 3 weeks from midnight
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I've seen couple videos floating in Punjab, police are stopping cars/people walking on streets and giving them a few smacks with the wooden sticks. They're also filming them and spreading them (assume to raise awareness and scare the public)
 
Sweet Square said:
Could be a load of bollock(ts a paywall)l but for those that are interested



edit

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This is fascinating. I've thought this all along and also that it was in Turkey and other places much sooner than cases are now showing. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, it's hard to believe otherwise considering it supposedly started in China as early as November, is highly contagious, widespread testing didn't start in Europe until February / March, and no restrictions of any sort were in place to stop it in the meantime.
 
Interesting that people are saying there's gatherings everywhere still as I went to shop for self isolated family then went for my daily walk and the closest I saw to a mass gathering was four people in a skatepark.
 
Someone in my lab went home to Seattle and said 5 of her friends have it. They seem fine for now.

...

Was this posted?
Man Fatally Poisons Himself While Self-Medicating for Coronavirus, Doctor Says
An Arizona man and his wife ingested a fish tank cleaning additive made with the same active ingredient as chloroquine phosphate, which President Trump has referred to as a “game changer.”
The woman told NBC News on Monday that she had heard Mr. Trump make repeated mentions of chloroquine during recent White House briefings on the coronavirus and that she used chloroquine phosphate to treat her koi fish.
“I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, ‘Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV,’ ” said the woman, who was not named by NBC.
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And this amazing response
 
Dan_F said:
I don’t see why a self employed person earning over £45k a year should need to take £2900 a month. It should be capped far lower. What are they going to do, pay their mortgage, bills, food and put the rest in their bank account for a summer holiday? Not to mention the self employed who earn more than that.

I’m not talking about the self employed who are living month to month. There’s also a lot of very well off self employed people, who simply don’t need that big of a hand out, especially when lots of people aren’t going to be getting anywhere near that (from the sectors I mentioned previously).
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So basically, rather than get over it and just accept people need to be paid, you want everyone to suffer whilst they figure out who gets what? I mean, you read just like so many people who don't understand that we aren't always self employed to fiddle taxes or get some big wage out of it, the vast majority of us do live month to month as you say.

Also, again, what do you mean by pay it back?


VintageWhatnots said:
You could say the same about people employed by a company etc too though
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A lot of people clearly don't get how self employed works and think it's just some tax avoidance scheme.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Saw some Chinese students in the park hugging to pose for a photo. Considered making a gesture towards the idiots but didn't want to seem racist.

Such is life.
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Maybe they were already staying together in one household?
 
VintageWhatnots said:
You could say the same about people employed by a company etc too though
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Yeah, absolutely and my view is the same. There’s going to be a lot of people taking 80%, self employed or otherwise, who just don’t need that much money for the next few months. It is a massive amount of money that is going to be paid back in the future and I have no problem paying extra tax for the people that need it.

Would you rather pay 80% to all self employed and people who’s companies have agreed to it. Or would you rather give EVERYONE not working a smaller amount, proportionate to their rent/mortgage/bills etc.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
So Boris said absolutely nothing yesterday? Other than if you congregate outdoors the police might tell you not to. There's been no further measures? He just went on telly to say 'I really mean it this time, guys!' and then disappeared the next day with no one clarifying anything.
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:lol: Would be so funny if it were not sad because lives are at stake! :(
 
Fener1907 said:
This is fascinating. I've thought this all along and also that it was in Turkey and other places much sooner than cases are now showing. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, it's hard to believe otherwise considering it supposedly started in China as early as November, is highly contagious, widespread testing didn't start in Europe until February / March, and no restrictions of any sort were in place to stop it in the meantime.
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Too good to be true IMO. If that is the case, that this is essentially just another cold/flu. I think the number of infected is significantly higher than the official numbers, but not half the population being infected. That would mean that for every official case, there are more than 4000 other infected people who have no symptoms. Sorry, but I don't see it happening. There might be 2 or 3, or even 10 asymptotic cases, but not thousands (for everyone with symptoms).

Finally, the vast majority of cases result negative. If half the population is infected, then even just doing random testings means that around half will result positive. Yesterday there were already done more than 70k cases, with less than 8k being positive. So even that people who are sick are getting preferential testings, still the ratio is closer to 0.1 than 0.5.

I have respect for Oxford, but it screams bullshit.
 
Not looking good on the antivirals either.

Background: The novel coronavirus pneumonia (COVID-19) outbreak has caused a global pandemic, however, effective antiviral therapeutics are still unavailable. Methods: Our study (NCT04252885), designated as ELACOI, was an exploratory randomized (2:2:1) and controlled one, exploring the efficacy and safety of lopinavir/ritonavir (LPV/r) or arbidol monotherapy treating mild/moderate COVID-19 patients. Results: This study successful enrolled 44 patients with mild/moderate COVID-19, with 21 randomly assigned to receive LPV/r, 16 to arbidol and 7 to no antiviral medication as control. Baseline characteristics of three groups were comparable. The median time of positive-to-negative conversion of SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid was 8.5 (IQR 3, 13) days in the LPV/r group, 7 (IQR 3, 10.5) days in the arbidol group and 4 (IQR 3, 10.5) days in the control group (P=0.751). The positive-to-negative conversion rates of SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid at day 7 and 14 did not show significant differences in the LPV/r group (42.9%, 76.2%), the arbidol group (62.5%, 87.5%) and the control group (71.4%, 71.4%) (all P>0.53). No statistical differences were found among three groups in the rates of antipyresis, cough alleviation, improvement of chest CT or the deterioration rate of clinical status (all P > 0.05). Overall, 5 (23.8%) patients in the LPV/r group experienced adverse events during the follow-up period. No apparent adverse events occurred in the arbidol or control group. Conclusion: LPV/r or arbidol monotherapy seems little benefit for improving the clinical outcome of mild/moderate COVID-19. LPV/r might lead to more adverse events. Due to the limitation of small sample size, further verification is needed in the future.
 
Revan said:
Can you expand on it please?
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Trying to find some details now.

Edit: This is all I can find so far.

Monday night, Evercore ISI analyst Umer Raffat distributed an abstract of an unpublished Chinese trial of hydroxychloroquine in patients with mild Covid-19 that appears to have had disappointing results. According to Raffat, the study found that 87% of patients on hydroxychloroquine experienced virological clearance by day 7, compared with 93% of patients in the control arm.
 
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has anyone attempted getting a 3 month delay on their mortgages? i haven't had any reduction in my salary or anything, but to be honest it would be nice to be able to bank 3 month's of mortgage payments just in case anything happens in the future. was just wondering how stringent they are in giving this (particularly if you haven't lost your job or anything).
 
France +24h
Cases: 22300 +2444
Deaths: 1100 +240

The department of science think the lockdown will be extended by a further 4 weeks.
 
SirAnderson said:
A guy died trying out the malaria drug.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...ne-phosphate-in-effort-to-prevent-coronavirus
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That means nothing though, except him possibly winning the Darwin award. It wasn't even the malaria drug, but some substance used for it, we don't know how much he ingested, we don't know if he had any preconditions that means you cannot take that drug, and so on. I mean, you can die by getting too much paracetamol, so this is no news.
 
Dan_F said:
Yeah, absolutely and my view is the same. There’s going to be a lot of people taking 80%, self employed or otherwise, who just don’t need that much money for the next few months. It is a massive amount of money that is going to be paid back in the future and I have no problem paying extra tax for the people that need it.

Would you rather pay 80% to all self employed and people who’s companies have agreed to it. Or would you rather give EVERYONE not working a smaller amount, proportionate to their rent/mortgage/bills etc.
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Maybe you're right, but higher earners usually have higher outgoings too, I know some people who earn way more than me, but they barely make ends meet, they'll still be screwed if their income dries up.

The agreement is already in place to give workers 80% so why shouldn't the self employed get the same?

I didn't see you raise these concerns when employers were getting this given to them a week ago (though admittedly I could have missed this).

The fact is it would be very costly to start means testing this, and the manpower isn't their I wouldn't think. It's simpler to do a blanket payment of a fixed amount of what ALL earn, so we can all exist at something similar to what we do now. Without anyone getting into serious financial trouble.
 
Redlambs said:
So basically, rather than get over it and just accept people need to be paid, you want everyone to suffer whilst they figure out who gets what? I mean, you read just like so many people who don't understand that we aren't always self employed to fiddle taxes or get some big wage out of it, the vast majority of us do live month to month as you say.

Also, again, what do you mean by pay it back?
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I’m saying that someone who earns £45k, doesn’t need to be given 80% of their pay to look after their family. My issue is not with self employed people, it’s with people who don’t need that much money, being given it, while others with less, end up with no job or unpaid leave.

So, if someone gets given the £2900 cap, how much of that is paying mortgage/rent/food? What are they doing with the rest of the money? That money that they can spend on whatever they want, is going to be paid back in tax in the future.

Again, so you’re clear, in no part of what I’ve said do I suggest people living month to month not be given immediate help. Even if the government gave a set amount to everyone this month, they could come up with something fairer in a few weeks.
 
It’s an interesting theory that it’s been prevalent for a lot longer than previously known but it falls majorly flat when you ask why its only now that people are ending up in hospital and actually dying from it with nobody noticing a link.
 
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