SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

To your last point, you should read the Sage report on reopening. They say there is a great degree of uncertainty on this and that if people go back to pre pandemic behaviours, we could have 4000+ hospitalisations per day, which would lead to interventions again. Only by people acting responsibly and ethically do they see us having a gradual, longer wave of 1000-1500 hospitalisations.

I think the main debate in all of this is whether the public are going to do their bit or not. Personally, I don’t think they will BUT there are many that do and that’s fair enough too.

Interesting. So in effective Sage are modelling as if life will go exactly back to what it was say on January 6th 2020 when the concept of anyone wearing a mask out on street or public transport would've just stood out like when you saw tourists in London wearing them who'd come from asian countries.

While many will ditch masks it won't go straight back up to 100% not bothering with them so that needs to taken into the account for the more vulnerable to covid.

Where I think the government have gone wrong is scaling up way too quickly. For example with the football grounds thing. It was 10k for last two games of last season. What's wrong with them going 20k for first month of the season, then 30k in September and keep on scaling up and see what the data is with crowds, not just at the ground but getting to and from the venue. Just seems a huge gamble to suddenly decide on capacity crowds of 50-70k right from the start and then thousands of those then mix with everyone else on buses, trains and pubs for many hours on a Saturday and Sunday. I could understand that more if second doses was already 40m + but still a good month or so off that.

Personally I'd have keep the current status for another month and then probably from middle of August had two months of a bit more "normality" and then you make final decision on rest of the year going into the winter period.
 
Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.
 
Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.

Here here.
 
Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.
Sensible rules , Drakeford likes to delay and see what happens in England first. Mind you I think it will be a struggle to enforce masks with tourists from England who have got their holiday heads on as it was hard enough when masks were mandatory in England. My mates son was on the door in a local Tesco and got a lot of abuse asking people to put masks on. We are carrying on as we are , mother and father in law in their 80s so sit outside enjoy the weather, who knows things might not get too out of hand.
 
Had a positive test on Tuesday after an outbreak at my daughter's school. I've had 2 jabs and it's hit me like a bus. Feeling terrible. Things will just end getting worse from Monday.

Sorry to hear that, worrying that it wasn't mild symptoms only for you. Did you get AZ jabs and, if so, do you know if they were produced in India?
 
Sorry to hear that, worrying that it wasn't mild symptoms only for you. Did you get AZ jabs and, if so, do you know if they were produced in India?

I’ve noticed you asking similar questions of anyone who says they’ve got covid recently. I can understand why you’re curious but the answers won’t tell you anything useful. I can say with absolute certainty that some people are catching covid despite being vaccinated. Two doses, one dose, Pfizer, AZ, every other vaccine. It doesn’t matter. You will see people with every possible vaccine history catching covid. And some of those people will end up in hospital. Some will die. That’s the reality we’re dealing with here. The vaccines are remarkably effective but they’re not 100% effective at preventing anything. Which we can see from the PHE data on vaccine effectiveness.
 
Any evidence that babies are any more affected by Delta than other versions of the virus?

I ask because we're gonna get our second jabs soon and plan to get back to more or less normal life, unless there's a significant risk to our kid.
 
I’ve noticed you asking similar questions of anyone who says they’ve got covid recently. I can understand why you’re curious but the answers won’t tell you anything useful. I can say with absolute certainty that some people are catching covid despite being vaccinated. Two doses, one dose, Pfizer, AZ, every other vaccine. It doesn’t matter. You will see people with every possible vaccine history catching covid. And some of those people will end up in hospital. Some will die. That’s the reality we’re dealing with here. The vaccines are remarkably effective but they’re not 100% effective at preventing anything. Which we can see from the PHE data on vaccine effectiveness.

I was hoping you wouldn't say that. :(
 
Any evidence that babies are any more affected by Delta than other versions of the virus?

I ask because we're gonna get our second jabs soon and plan to get back to more or less normal life, unless there's a significant risk to our kid.

None whatsoever. For very young kids the much bigger risk to their health has always been old school viruses like influenza, measles or RSV.
 
None whatsoever. For very young kids the much bigger risk to their health has always been old school viruses like influenza, measles or RSV.
Nice. I’m still planning to use her as an excuse to get out of going to things though.
 
So this was 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for that disaster.
I haven’t been following case numbers in the Nordic countries. Is delta having any impact yet?

EDIT: Quick google reveals daily case numbers in Finland have tripled since the date of that tweet and seem to be trending steeply upwards. “Disaster” obviously a poorly chosen word but not sure his point has been invalidated by subsequent events.
 
Dunno about everyone else here but even though the numbers aren't as big as before, it feels like the net is closing in a little. My neighbours were very ill a few weeks ago with Covid and now 3 positive case at my work over the last 10 days. Feel a bit gloomy, feels almost inevitable at this point.
 
I haven’t been following case numbers in the Nordic countries. Is delta having any impact yet?

EDIT: Quick google reveals daily case numbers in Finland have tripled since the date of that tweet and seem to be trending steeply upwards. “Disaster” obviously a poorly chosen word but not sure his point has been invalidated by subsequent events.
Yes it has been proven that his point was ridiculous.

Games in Russia brought delta forward by about 2 weeks. The missing tests maybe contributed 1% to that.

Obviously cases will rise with delta. And we still have night clubs open in 70% of the country. That is literally 100 times bigger reason than some missed tests (most which were conducted 3 days later).
 
Yes it has been proven that his point was ridiculous.

Games in Russia brought delta forward by about 2 weeks. The missing tests maybe contributed 1% to that.

Obviously cases will rise with delta. And we still have night clubs open in 70% of the country. That is literally 100 times bigger reason than some missed tests (most which were conducted 3 days later).

His point was that the sequence of events described could result in football fans returning home and seeding outbreaks all over the country (in, for example, night clubs)

We could argue all day about exactly how big an impact this has had on your case load and what an alternative reality looks like where those fans didn’t seed any cases but the trajectory of cases in Finland over the last 3 weeks, if anything, substantiates his concerns.
 
His point was that the sequence of events described could result in football fans returning home and seeding outbreaks all over the country (in, for example, night clubs)

We could argue all day about exactly how big an impact this has had on your case load and what an alternative reality looks like where those fans didn’t seed any cases but the trajectory of cases in Finland over the last 3 weeks, if anything, substantiates his concerns.
Nope. The guy was scaremongering. It was evident then, it is evident now. And you chose to spread his scaremongering.
 
As he says in the article, they’re going to deal with more and more of these fruit loops in the months ahead. Will be a huge test of their patience.
Why can this not be a rule that you have to pay for your treatment if you refused vaccination? Or just refuse to treat patients who refused to take vaccination when they were allowed to? They are taking a known risk.
 
Sorry to hear that, worrying that it wasn't mild symptoms only for you. Did you get AZ jabs and, if so, do you know if they were produced in India?

Thanks. Mine was AZ and my first one was one of the India made ones. Feels like a bad flu. One of the secondary schools had an outbreak and shut which then resulted in siblings from the primary school spreading it hence me getting it.
 
Warning that cases might rise steeply in Finland right before cases rise steeply in Finland = scaremongering. Gotcha.
It isn't what he said nor what he implied. Even if it was then, yes. The absolute numbers are nowhere near problematic and won't be getting anywhere near that unless specificly decided to let them get that high. Also still much lower than Ireland for example. There are many other countries to worry about. And there are many other mistakes in Finland that are more important. This was just searching for reason to be negative. In the context of pandemic and delta variant it is utterly meaningless. If you fail to understand it, then I would be surprised.
 
It isn't what he said nor what he implied. Even if it was then, yes. The absolute numbers are nowhere near problematic and won't be getting anywhere near that unless specificly decided to let them get that high. Also still much lower than Ireland for example. There are many other countries to worry about. And there are many other mistakes in Finland that are more important. This was just searching for reason to be negative. In the context of pandemic and delta variant it is utterly meaningless. If you fail to understand it, then I would be surprised.

Ok. Not worth arguing about anyway. I don’t know the guy so shouldn’t care how you feel about his tweets.

Is this scaremongering?



Outdoor event without social distancing but with LFTs in advance results in 5% of attendees picking up covid.To me it’s just interesting. Could have been worse but obviously something to think about in weeks/months ahead.

There’s not a whole lot of good news to share right now because there’s not a lot of good news!
 
Had a positive test on Tuesday after an outbreak at my daughter's school. I've had 2 jabs and it's hit me like a bus. Feeling terrible. Things will just end getting worse from Monday.

I had my second jab on Saturday and have been in bed completely drained since, was told to get a test yesterday as a few people had tested positive in the pub I watched the football in last Wednesday and mine has come back positive. Initially I thought I was in bed because of the jab but now I think it’s the actual virus which has done me in. Dread to think what I’d of been like without either of the jabs.
 
I had my second jab on Saturday and have been in bed completely drained since, was told to get a test yesterday as a few people had tested positive in the pub I watched the football in last Wednesday and mine has come back positive. Initially I thought I was in bed because of the jab but now I think it’s the actual virus which has done me in. Dread to think what I’d of been like without either of the jabs.
Sorry to hear it. The second jab didn't have time to work, unfortunately.
 
Some graphs on the difference between this wave of cases in the UK (so far) and the last one:

The modelling of what happens next is basically all about whether cases will move up the age groups before other factors (vaccines, prior infections and behaviour changes) pull them back down again.
 
I had my second jab on Saturday and have been in bed completely drained since, was told to get a test yesterday as a few people had tested positive in the pub I watched the football in last Wednesday and mine has come back positive. Initially I thought I was in bed because of the jab but now I think it’s the actual virus which has done me in. Dread to think what I’d of been like without either of the jabs.

Exactly what I'm thinking, if this how you feel with the jabs (and I feel like shit) then God knows how you feel without them.
 
I had my second jab on Saturday and have been in bed completely drained since, was told to get a test yesterday as a few people had tested positive in the pub I watched the football in last Wednesday and mine has come back positive. Initially I thought I was in bed because of the jab but now I think it’s the actual virus which has done me in. Dread to think what I’d of been like without either of the jabs.
That’s bad luck but at least 2 weeks from your jab before you get maximum level of the vaccine. I heard many people say that’s when they caught it, in between both jabs. Lesson there
Anyway get well soon
 
On Delta and its transmission ability compared to the original Wuhan strain:

We know from previous studies that people are at their most infectious on/around the day they get symptoms. With Delta it looks like they're actually more infectious due to the higher vital load.

Combine that with a faster infection to infectious timeline (down from around 6 days to 4 or less) and it's easy to see how Delta got a transmission advantage.

What it means in terms of spread is the thing the epidemiologists are now musing over. More super-spreaders and super-spreader events? Which might explain the speed of the jump in cases in Scotland, and maybe even the fact they soon started to fall again. Probably the end of test and trace (using human tracers to do phone contacts) as well (assuming it still exists at all).